Sneak peek!

One of my females of unknown origin proved out.. I will post a new thread after they shed and I get them on the right background with the right lights. As of now.. This is all the tease you'll get! Clue: every single baby is a morph...

http://tapatalk.com/mu/43a34993-292c-8f01.jpg

http://tapatalk.com/mu/43a34993-294d-6bc5.jpg

Congrats! Can't wait to see the new pics...

VERY nice!!! They look like Lace Black Backs
http://www.baileyreptiles.com/lace.html

Congrats!!!

Ohhhhh....I have no clue what those are but I LOVE the two milky chocolate ones (bottom pic)-the one that is all spread out shaped like an S...sooo pretty :gj:

I want ???!??!?!?!

Mmmm looks like some cinny with some yb maybe? I like them either way they're gorgeous!

It's a phone pic and the color is way off. Way too red.

I am terrible at the guessing games. I love them anyways! They're gorgeous!

Here is another quick phone pic. It captured their color a little better but still not accurate.. Don't worry. I'll definitely show them off when they shed :)

http://tapatalk.com/mu/43a34993-3ef7-4dab.jpg

they look like black backs to me and kinda cinnamony. i like them. :O and i normally do not like dark snakes.

Gorgeous! I hope my black backs prove out this year. :P

They are gorgeous! Cant wait to find out what they are though

Gorgeous! Can't wait to see more.

Nice! Congrats!

Sent from my MB611 using Tapatalk

congrats on proving her out great looking babies can't wait to see more

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

Here is another quick phone pic. It captured their color a little better but still not accurate.. Don't worry. I'll definitely show them off when they shed :)

http://tapatalk.com/mu/43a34993-3ef7-4dab.jpg

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That is one cool looking "dark brown" BP..the alien heads etc look like sort of like a cinnies to me but not quite the same. Man, I like it alot! Congrats!

Definitely cinnamon....congrats on proving her out!

The 2 sires were a cinnamon and a fire..

:gj:Congrats on the good odds on top of proving!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

The 2 sires were a cinnamon and a fire..

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So if the sire was a Cinnamon, what exactly did she prove out? Is she a black backed female?(would be my guess) They are stunning Cinnies to say the least. Congrats!

i personally cant tell a cinny from a chocolate but they look yummy haha. gorgeous babies!:gj:

Definitely looks like a Lace Black Back or a genetic black back cinnamon. Very cool, is it okay if we know the pairing or is it top secret? ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mommanessy247

i personally cant tell a cinny from a chocolate but they look yummy haha. gorgeous babies!:gj:

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Better study your morphs a lil better as chocolates and cinnies Look NOTHING alike as i have both.

Chocolate

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._3252686_n.jpg

Cinny

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._1918393_n.jpg

Well, as of yet, there are only 3 proven lines of genetic blackback.. The het red, the laceback, and RDR's blackhead. Considering that my female is too dark on top to be a laceback and too light everywhere else to be a blackhead, she must be an excellent representation of a het red. Therefore, I'm calling these het reds unless any future breedings prove otherwise. Either way, she is a proven genetic blackback. So there are 4 gargoyles and 3 others that may be fire het reds. I should know for certain on the fires after they shed but all 7 babies are definitely genetic blackbacks.

Here is mom

http://tapatalk.com/mu/43a34993-562e-84f7.jpg
http://tapatalk.com/mu/43a34993-5640-fd42.jpg

The cinnamon sire
http://tapatalk.com/mu/43a34993-5655-04b6.jpg

The fire sire
http://tapatalk.com/mu/43a34993-5664-95f4.jpg

After the babies shed I will get good shots of them. They all look so cool.

Congrats Monica! It's a happy day when you prove things! They are just lovely!

Congrats!!

Very nice

Oh and there is also the black velvet that NERD is working with. In order to better identify these, I am contacting the breeders who work with these blackbacks. Hopefully next season I will have a super to show.

Congrats on proving her genetic! Those babies are hot! :gj:

Sorry but I see no Gargoyles.

Not trying to rain on your parade, as those are some great looking Cinnies. Not to mention that the dame is smoking too, but if she is a Het Red, Lace black back or Green Pastel.... You didn’t hit the Gargoyle.

Yes the Het red, Lace Black Back and the Green Pastel are all genetically black backs, but they are not the only genetic black backs. Also the Blackhead is not a black back as it is supposed to have a gold pin stripe down its back. Markus Jane has also been working with a morph they call a Black Velvet since at least 2005. Not sure about the NERD version but they appear to be different.

There are genetic black backs that are just that.... Black backs. We happen to have a few black backs in our collection to include a Cinnamon.

Personally I think you have proven your beautiful girl to be a nice Genetic Black back ... at a minimum. Maybe you can still prove her out to be more than just a beautiful genetic black back in the future.


Congrats again on those beautiful babies and on proven that girl genetic! :gj:

usually cinnamons have black backs themselves

I did say that more than once. They are genetic blackbacks. That part is obvious. And yes some cinnamons have a nice blackback pattern but not like these. This clutch is all genetic blackback. Before i can market these as any specific name other than genetic blackback, I do need to see if there is a super form or if it's just dominant. I've seen a couple gargoyles that have a solid blackback but considering that most have a continuous stripe, these are probably not het reds. Of course the deep blushing makes me eager to see what they will produce when bred together. Like I said, I'm in contact with other breeders who have known lines of GBB's about this clutch.

Either way. My female did prove out and gave me 7 genetic blackbacks. 4 of which are cinnamon combos, and 3 of which are quite possibly fire combos but I'm waiting for them to shed before I can be sure. like I said, the color of these photos is way off. The cinny blackbacks are not even close to being the right color for just cinnamons. Besides, I know what the cinnamons I own normally produce and these 4 are completely new. I've always been partial to cinnamons and these are not just cinnamon. This is a clutch where the outcome leaves no room for doubt about the female being at least a dominant genetic gene.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

Not trying to rain on your parade, as those are some great looking Cinnies. Not to mention that the dame is smoking too, but if she is a Het Red, Lace black back or Green Pastel.... You didn’t hit the Gargoyle.

Yes the Het red, Lace Black Back and the Green Pastel are all genetically black backs, but they are not the only genetic black backs. Also the Blackhead is not a black back as it is supposed to have a gold pin stripe down its back. Markus Jane has also been working with a morph they call a Black Velvet since at least 2005. Not sure about the NERD version but they appear to be different.

There are genetic black backs that are just that.... Black backs. We happen to have a few black backs in our collection to include a Cinnamon.

Personally I think you have proven your beautiful girl to be a nice Genetic Black back ... at a minimum. Maybe you can still prove her out to be more than just a beautiful genetic black back in the future.


Congrats again on those beautiful babies and on proven that girl genetic! :gj:

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Maybe I should have clarified.. Proven lines with a super. Proven co-dom blackbacks. But even if my girl is a dominant gene with no super, that doesn't matter with my plans for her.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

Well, as of yet, there are only 3 proven lines of genetic blackback.. The het red, the laceback, and RDR's blackhead. Considering that my female is too dark on top to be a laceback and too light everywhere else to be a blackhead, she must be an excellent representation of a het red. Therefore, I'm calling these het reds unless any future breedings prove otherwise.

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I don't get it...one post they're het reds until proven otherwise...now they're not and just genetic black backs? I've produced MANY black back cinnamons and combos that look almost identical to yours. I'm not saying the mom isnt' a genetic black back, she is a very nice example and it could be genetic, but I think you're getting ahead of yourself, then having to backpeddle when someone says its not what you think it is.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

Here is another quick phone pic. It captured their color a little better but still not accurate.. Don't worry. I'll definitely show them off when they shed :)

http://tapatalk.com/mu/43a34993-3ef7-4dab.jpg

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I'd pick this one little snake alone over both of the parents. IMHO, they outproduced themselves, which ain't a bad thing at all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Luke Martin

I don't get it...one post they're het reds until proven otherwise...now they're not and just genetic black backs? I've produced MANY black back cinnamons and combos that look almost identical to yours. I'm not saying the mom isnt' a genetic black back, she is a very nice example and it could be genetic, but I think you're getting ahead of yourself, then having to backpeddle when someone says its not what you think it is.

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I'm not backpedaling anything. I know what I said. It's obviously genetic. My cinnamons do not produce blushed out and lavender tinted (at hatching) blackback cinnys. I'm sorry but I've never seen a cinnamon produced by anyone that looked like that and it was just a cinny.

When comparing to try to make a call on the GBB the female may be, she more closely resembles a het red than the others. I said she must be. Why am I repeating myself??

Then (for those who need an explanation for their holier than though ways) I thought about what I'd said and how I didn't consider the difference between the proven co-dom lines I'd listed (you know, the ones that have a super form) and the genetic BB's that are the dominant lines. Plus, again, like I said (this is getting tiring) I considered the cinny babies have no stripe. Gargoyles usually have a stripe.

The point is, that female proved beyond a shadow of a doubt to be genetic. I know this is a fact because I know what my cinnys would look like otherwise.

Does it really matter if I wanted to call them gargoyles the first day and then realize they are probably a dominant gene and not a co-dom gene? Personally, I'd rather them be dominant blackbacks. My blackback project is just that. I don't want a stripe in what I plan to produce.

So go find someone else to try to put down if it makes you feel better. It isn't going to work in this situation because I got exactly what I wanted out of that unproven female. Who (oh my god!) is not just a nice normal!

;)

No reason for the attitude about it. I was just trying to figure out your way of thinking. This isn't the first time you've hatched something that you thought it was something else although there is no need for me to bring up old threads as I wasn't attacking you at all. Sorry if you took it that way...I have no problem with dinking and trying to prove things out but one clutch doesn't mean that something is genetic without a shadow of a doubt. Again...you're getting ahead of yourself. I'm not saying that the female is genetic or just a normal...she could be genetic or you just got a clutch of some black backs. Just because you got one clutch of some black backs really means nothing but the female is "possibly" genetic. I've had clutches of black backs and clutches of striped stuff from opposite looking adults. You can be mad about what I say all day long but it doesn't change the fact that you obviously get ahead of yourself. The excitement of hatching babies is always great but you need to know what you have before you start posting everywhere that you have something new or "accidentally" produced something higher end than what you did. It makes you look like you don't know what you're talking about. Have a great day ;)

Actually it's only the second time so go ahead and bring up old threads. It happens all the time in this hobby. Plus, the first baby I thought was something else, actually did turn out to be combo so it was a win win either way. I did produce something higher end than what I was lead to believe.

That aside. I stand firm with the notion that this current clutch proved out that particular female. They are BB. I mentioned het red because they do carry those traits, especially the other 3 babies. Then when I started thinking about the red ax being the super, I realized I need to see what I get next year from a breed-back before I can be certain on the line of BB.

So, in 16 years of working with local breeders, keeping herps, and my own measly 5 years of personal breeding... I've jumped the gun once and almost jumped it twice.

Oh lord call the firing squad.

Quote:

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Better study your morphs a lil better as chocolates and cinnies Look NOTHING alike as i have both

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thx richs. those two are definitely different but i'm tellin' you i've seen some that looked identical but then i guess it coulda been the lighting in the pics.
i thought both had the same milk chocolate colored blushing on a black background...

dont both of them end up lookin' somewhat like normals? or do they stay that milk chocolate brown?
i apologize if these seem like stupid questions but i ask simply cuz i do not know and i'm seeking the knowledge.

Cinnamons have a bit more of a cinnamon or burgany color to them. In the dark markings and blushing. The eye stripes are either lighter (dark ivory colored) or barely noticeable. Plus some cinnys have more of a crazy and swirly pattern along the sides.

Some people have a hard time distinguishing between black pastels and cinnys as well. The same things apply tho. Black pastels are often darker, less aberrant, the head color and eye stripe color are different, and they often have a higher contrast between colors.

congrats on a beautiful clutch of babies momma is smokin hot great color and pattern and i hope they turn out to be whatever they are regardless you have some smokin babies i would love to have one thanks for sharing

Thank you. They are unique for sure. I'm currently speaking with a few other breeders who have identified certain BB morphs and putting opinions together, but as far as actually marketing these before a breed-back clutch, it looks like a dominant gene. I hope to get a male up to weight for next season in the hopes of proving it co-dom. This is exactly what I was hoping for to work on my white back albino project. I also think they would contribute to the looks of a super cinny. Possibly creating a super with a ghostly glow due to the extra blushing on these.

The polls are in.. As I suspected, a few hours after I made my original post and began thinking about the lack of a stripe on those babies.. She does not appear to be a het red but she is genetic and all the babies are also genetic blackbacks.

Now to wait for that first shed so I can be sure how many of the other 3 are fires. I know one is for sure but the other 2 have a weak head marking and no mustache or lip spots so I'm unsure as of yet.

White back albino huh! Never thought of that. Well Monica you have some great looking snakes and good luck on a breed back. What ever they turn out to be they look amazing.

Oh yes. I began planning that the moment I saw Corey Woods' first whiteback albinos a few years ago. He's one of the breeders I was talking to about this clutch based on my plans. I plan to produce lavender backs to increase the amount of color. I now have some great founding stock.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Better study your morphs a lil better as chocolates and cinnies Look NOTHING alike as i have both.

Chocolate

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._3252686_n.jpg

Cinny

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._1918393_n.jpg

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No offense, Rich, but that Chocolate isn't your typical textbook example either. I honestly don't see anything about it that says "Chocolate" at all. Just an observation.

Then you need to study the chocolate morph as well. Theres more than one line of chocolate. This is Jas's Line of chocolate that produced the First ever mojave chocolate. This line of chocolate is closely related to John Berrys line of chocolates.

Berry line
http://www.johnberryreptiles.com/ima...JBR%20line.JPG
http://www.johnberryreptiles.com/ima...e%202010_1.jpg
http://www.johnberryreptiles.com/ima...e%202010_2.jpg

chocolates range from dark to light same as other morphs like pastels. Some are nice some arent the best example.


2007 First Mojave choclate produced by Jas.
https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net..._4033152_n.jpg

Rich, are those silver eyes on that mojo chocoloate?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by llovelace

Rich, are those silver eyes on that mojo chocoloate?

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I think thats what jas told me is their silvery. Ill have to ask him to be 100% sure but im pretty sure thats what he said while back

Grats on a killer clutch!

Thanks :)

After some deliberation with GBB breeders, these have all been determined to be genetic black backs. Luckily I got 2.2 of the GBB cinnamons so I picked a pair to keep. They are all very feisty as well and all but one ate 2 days after the first shed. Here is a little female that has already nailed me twice! Lol

http://tapatalk.com/mu/a6898d47-fc66-ba23.jpg

http://tapatalk.com/mu/a6898d47-fc81-58a1.jpg

Next year, hopefully my little male hold back will be up to size and producing plugs. I plan to breed back to mom to see if there is there is a super form.


Sent by some psychotic female who claims to be from this planet.