96 degree basking spot????

ok my ocd doesnt let me rest with this.im reading varied info everywhere.help.
ok the hottest part of my tank gets up to 96 when the substrate is fully dry but when moistened drops to 89 90 then as it dries slowly rises and stops at 96.
im going to go get a thermostat this weekend as this rheostat is dumb.its at its lowest setting.my substrate is a combination of cypress mulch and sphagnum moss.this hot hide i have is a terra cotta pot with a piece of slate rock with moss on top of it and it sits directly on the glass below the pot and below the glass is a uth. ive spoken to numerous herpvets and reptile stores ,they said the rock is fine as long as you supervise its heat.if you can hold it in your hand for a min without it being uncomfortablely warm its fine.ive felt up on the rock at its hottest point and its just warm to the touch.my snakie loves it.buuuuttt the heat seeps around the moss and mulch i have smashed around the rock.there are other less warm hiding spots on the warm side for her to choose from but here is the actual question.is 96 too hot?

I think for a shot time it should be OK. I try to keep mine 88, but sometimes it gose to 91 when the room is too hot. But the snake will chose the place he want to be.

I heard if it gets too hot, your bp will get sick, even RI. I am not sure.

Is it a light? if it is, try to place in a distance. If it is heat pad, put something on under the mulch. like a plastic bag or something.

usually for a basking spot is around 90, to 92 on that side of the tank at the most, anything eles to high, and could burn your snake

i use two heating pads side by side.they cover one third of the floor.on the warm side there is three hides with different temps.that specific spot is closer to the uth with less substrate.the other spots on the warm side have more substrate under them.theres the humid hide which is inside 87 to 89 and the hollow tree which stays around 85 to 88 and in the middle is a coconut hide which stays around 80 to 84 and the cold hide at the end which stays between 75 to 80. summer time is coming and this problem just arose as my room is getting warmer.i use two uths cause one alone doesnt cut it and my heat lamp just dries everything. a vet and that reptile store i talked to said 90 to 94 is perfect.but with the summer coming up i could drop a uth for sure.my bp doesnt touch that specific hide unless its over 90 from my observations and that was when i added the warm rock and lower substrate level.oh i use probes to gauge the air temps at the snakes level.i used a heat gun on the rock when the air temp in that hide was 96 and the slate rock read at about 88 so the surface is safe but the air temp is the prob.i could just do away with the stone but Marley loves it.thanks for the replies

The rocks make a great thermal mass they will take the edge off the spikes of a on off T-stat (I know you have a rheostat at the moment but...)

94 is the top end of 'safe' being long term exposure a short term 96 is ok not stellar but ok. There are 2 things to take into account,

The accuracy is suspect of most thermometers, The vast majority of IR guns and digital thermometers are +/-2ºF that is up or down. With that in mind I don't like hearing 94 (94+2) so I usually say 92 at the top end and 90 being safer. Smaller snakes (sub adults) don't need as much heat and can be quite content at 88-90 They actually produce enough heat during digestion that it can lift hide temps by 1-2 degrees so 88 isn't a problem at all. Small snakes adults need a bit extra as they have more mass and slower metabolisms.

The second thing is ambient temps not surface temps but the air temp hot and cold. It is often over looked, or dismissed as not relevant. Snakes in general have long large lungs compared to over all girth. The air temp that fills that lung (s) will go along way to regulate the core temps. I believe (educated guess) that many burns are due to high surface temps and low ambient temps the snake tries to raise core temp by over heating the surface. I like to see ambient temps in the low 80s like 81-4 or so.

Your snake will tell you how it is feeling if it is always on the cool end the hot end might be too warm the hot end the cool end or ambient temps might be too warm. They typically stay a lot of time in one or the other but a 80/20 split seems normal much more than that I start to adjust temps. What that means in my case, is no two enclosures have the same temp. I have hot spots from 92-88 and cool end temps from 78-82 in different set up each is tailored to that snakes preference.

A humid hide works but a humidifier can too which ever is easier...

Advice is gonna vary. Some will say 92, 94 or even 95 is the cut off point. I've never heard anyone on here say for it to go above 95. I think kitedemon has the best advice in that 96 is only good, temporarily. And that you should also see how your snake handles it.

I used a dimmer for a little bit on my heat pad. Went to bed with temps being fine, and woke up to my UTH being 100 degrees. He was not sleeping in his hot hide like he always does. He was on the colder side hiding in a corner. That behavior told me he wasn't happy with the temps.

My advice is to put substrate in it. Substrate can be added or thinned out to meet the required temps.

yeah i didnt think it was good.today was the first day i seen it reach 96.its always under that.but it is getting hotter here where i live.it was 99 outside today and 84 in my room.
the ambient air temp throughout the middle of the tank would be 79 during the coldest parts of the morning and night and throughout the day is 80 to 82.i have the probes in the hides ground level measuring the air temps where she spends her time.the cold spot as i mentioned 75 to 80 depending on my rooms temp.the cold side is generally 2degrees colder than my room temp.in the middle is my room temp and back to the hot side. when i set up this tank it was nearing the end of winter and now its getting hot so i ditched the second uth turned the uth that stayed to cover more ground of the warm side and the temp is smoothing out nicely.
when i get Marleys bigger tank ill go all out humidifier and waterfall e todo.i cant wait.
hmmm the uth that stayed is one of those stick on uths.i heard once you put em on dont take em off cause it damages the heating elements and becomes a fire hazard is there truth to this?and thanks for you input fellas

There are ways of removing it, to prevent damaging it. You can see how by checking out the link below

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...o-Remove-a-UTH!

If you don't do it this way, and you just rip it off, it will likely not work right, and the heat will be uneven, possibly causing a fire hazard.

As for humidity, I was having problems too. First off, do what it says in the link below

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...tment-Tutorial

Next, I bought moss, which when wet activates itself, and creates a kind of biosphere in the tank. Next I bought a repti fogger, which helps boost that humidity. This should really help as far as humidity goes.

Hope I helped.

i wedged it off with my hand.i hope i didnt hurt anything.mother of jimminy eff en cricket,ocd kick in now i need another uth great.why would they make em so fragile knowing people have to take it off to do a good scrub down?sheesh.

that mod you speak of is for if im going to use a heat lamp i presume?
i fixed my humidity problems a while ago by not using the heat lamp and switching to cypress mulch mixed with sphagnum moss and moss placed strategically around the water bowl and other spots in the tank.i also did some plexi glass work.but i think im going to do another plexi glass modification soon like this one.
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...arium-Solution

I have my floor temps max at 94F, or at least I hope it is, since I'm measuring it with a digital thermometer with a probe. I need a temp gun. But the probe isn't always pressed down firmly on the glass, and it reads about 94F max. However my balls seem to spend all day in their warm hides and keep pushing the aspen away to get down to the glass I'm beginning to worry something is wrong. I thought they'd be feeling too warm.

Hmm somehow I cant edit my previous post. Anyway I just wanted to add, if my balls spend all their time in there, then surely it cant be too hot, can it? If somethings burning them, they wont feel it at first but the heat will get in and theyd feel too warm and move to somewhere cooler, but they dont at all. I'm not saying my snakes are getting burnt - they are NOT BURNT. Just giving an extreme example. They just stick their heads out every evening (now and then they would come out for a walk, or slither).

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Originally Posted by ogdentrece

Hmm somehow I cant edit my previous post. Anyway I just wanted to add, if my balls spend all their time in there, then surely it cant be too hot, can it? If somethings burning them, they wont feel it at first but the heat will get in and theyd feel too warm and move to somewhere cooler, but they dont at all. I'm not saying my snakes are getting burnt - they are NOT BURNT. Just giving an extreme example. They just stick their heads out every evening (now and then they would come out for a walk, or slither).

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No, just because some snakes will move when its too hot, doesn't mean all of them will. Many will sit there without realizing they are being cooked alive. Thats why you need something like a temp gun, to measure how hot the heat pad actually is, how hot the glass is, and how hot the substrate they are basking on is.

Before I would take the heat pad up to 100 because the substrate wouldn't get hot enough below that. But my BP likes to dig under the thin layer of substrate. He would then be touching the glass that is 100 degree's. So a good rule of thumb is to make sure that glass is not above 95 degrees.

ogdentrece what are your ambient temps? If they are cool you might have issues. If they are reasonably warm I'd not worry overly just make sure it doesn't gain too much too fast. I really watch the animal, does it ever move to the cool end? If your air temps are cool it can cause issues if not remember they see IR close and far (heat) the accuracy of the heat differences they see is much much better than any digital thermometer. Do you have one on hot and cold side? If you do just move the cool side one to sit beside the hot side one and check them both in an hour or so and see if they are the same. If not I'd suspect failure, I have been averaging 1 in 5 to fail usually that is humidly readings which are notorious. I'd not go over 94 even if the animal is not regulating you might try raising the cool end temps as they may also be too cold.

@KeyboardWarrior: Yes, I definitely would never let my glass go above what it currently is.

kitedemon, my ambient temps seem to be fine (I think), with a heat gradient.
In the day its 85-90.
At night the warm side, outside the hide, is about 80-85 (rarely below 82) but should be warmer in the hide, heated only by UTH, cool side 75-80 (rarely below 77 though). I'm only using UTH's at the moment, I do have CHE's but was told that I shouldnt exactly need it too badly, especially since its a real pain for humidity. What do you think?

I have 4 digital thermometers all read more or less the same when together, just one with a 0.1 and another 0.3 difference so I shouldn't think its that..

here's what I don't get:

My body temp is 98.1. if I hold my hand in a fist for about 5 minutes, then open it, it's blood temp. I just don't understand how my hand could ever burn my snake. I get you know, 110 or 120 being burn range, and I understand how anything above 95 for a long period of time could be unhealthy....but burn? :confused:

I'm not being snarky...this has actually been bothering me for quite some time. I'm genuinely curious. :)

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Originally Posted by Anya

here's what I don't get:

My body temp is 98.1. if I hold my hand in a fist for about 5 minutes, then open it, it's blood temp. I just don't understand how my hand could ever burn my snake. I get you know, 110 or 120 being burn range, and I understand how anything above 95 for a long period of time could be unhealthy....but burn? :confused:

I'm not being snarky...this has actually been bothering me for quite some time. I'm genuinely curious. :)

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that is a marvelous point Anya. Marley loves my tummy when im under the covers of my bed.i think the conductor of the heat glass,rock,plastic etc have a different effect than our soft porous skin.maybe:confused:

my herpvet said you need to know how hot the glass gets buut set your probe on top of the substrate where your snakie spends his time.its likely the substrate isnt letting alot of heat through and your snake is trying to get to it. if you have a thick layer of bedding or if its all mashed down alot wont go through.
i would check the temps on top of the substrate and go from there.

It sound like you thermometers are reasonably good as they are the same. The ambient temps seems off how are you measuring it? 85-90 is quite high ambient. I usually would measure it by hanging the probe about 2-4 inches from the floor centre of the enclosure. We are looking for air temps.

Anya, snakes can tolerate easily as much as 100ºF with out issue. The problem is two fold, most heaters are not even and there is a good chance of a higher spots here and there. The second point is that they cannot digest food at higher temps. I know a few big breeders who during the hottest parts of the year when brown outs are possible don't offer food due to that. They can manage to escape with out a bun but cannot exist at that temp for a extended period of time. They become restless and run with a much higher metabolism and burn much more energy but at the same time they usually will not eat either.

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

It sound like you thermometers are reasonably good as they are the same. The ambient temps seems off how are you measuring it? 85-90 is quite high ambient. I usually would measure it by hanging the probe about 2-4 inches from the floor centre of the enclosure. We are looking for air temps.

Anya, snakes can tolerate easily as much as 100ºF with out issue. The problem is two fold, most heaters are not even and there is a good chance of a higher spots here and there. The second point is that they cannot digest food at higher temps. I know a few big breeders who during the hottest parts of the year when brown outs are possible don't offer food due to that. They can manage to escape with out a bun but cannot exist at that temp for a extended period of time. They become restless and run with a much higher metabolism and burn much more energy but at the same time they usually will not eat either.

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Oh wow thanks for the info, I never knew that about digesting at high temps.
My day temps here are pretty warm, usually 82-88F, that I'm pretty sure. My ambient temp would more or less follow that. At night it gets pretty cool, at about 77-82. At about 2-4 inches off the top of the substrate its a little higher on the warm side from the UTH. I use the same digital thermometer to measure these temps.

You should maintain your hot spot 88 at the lowest to 94 at the highest. (90-92 is ideal) at night it can drop some but should not dip below 80 and 85 is better. The ambient temps may or may not have much to do with the hot spot. What is your cool end hide temp? Sometimes the high ambient temp is due to high cool end temps. Check your ambient temps and drop them if they are over 86 I like to have mine between 79-83 on cold nights they sometimes are below 77 and the hottest day above 85 but that is never for long. Air temp not surface temps...

today my temps look like this,
inside the hot hide surface is 91.4 hide air temp in the hide is 90.7
inside the cool hide is surface 80.6 and ambient air in the hide is 81.1

The enclosure air temps centre over the hot side is 83.5 over the centre of the cool end is 82.5 and the dead center 1/2 up the height sides and front of the enclosure is 82.8.

I have good air flow that prevents stratification of temps so they are quite even everywhere. When the snake occupies the hide the ambient temps raises as part of the animals body blocks the door. It will raise 3 or 4 degrees in time more if the animal is digesting.

im glad i joined this site.everybody is just trying to help eachothers snakies out.and its so much easier to post a question here and have it answered by someone with alot more experience than to call all the vets and reptile stores with a slew of random questions and have them get annoyed you have such an inquisitive mind.

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Originally Posted by Keyboard Warrior

No, just because some snakes will move when its too hot, doesn't mean all of them will. Many will sit there without realizing they are being cooked alive. Thats why you need something like a temp gun, to measure how hot the heat pad actually is, how hot the glass is, and how hot the substrate they are basking on is.

Before I would take the heat pad up to 100 because the substrate wouldn't get hot enough below that. But my BP likes to dig under the thin layer of substrate. He would then be touching the glass that is 100 degree's. So a good rule of thumb is to make sure that glass is not above 95 degrees.

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i use heat tape and a RHP. Under my hot hide I use a piece of reptile carpet that way my Bp’s can never touch the bottom of the PVC enclosure. The rest of the set up is coconut. My hot spot stays around 88-90 and the ground temps on the outside of the hot are usually 85 and tapers down to 75 as I you get further towards the cold hide.

Hope this helps

If its a BP, that's too hot

Sent from my LGMP260 using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by Phantom1987

i use heat tape and a RHP. Under my hot hide I use a piece of reptile carpet that way my Bp’s can never touch the bottom of the PVC enclosure. The rest of the set up is coconut. My hot spot stays around 88-90 and the ground temps on the outside of the hot are usually 85 and tapers down to 75 as I you get further towards the cold hide.

Hope this helps

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Consideting the thread is 8 years old and the person you are responding to has not been on the forum since July 2011, I would say no.