(mice vs asf rats) who's a better feeder??

My question is whats a better feeder for bp's? such as putting on weight and over all keeping a nice size and looking snake.feed every week?every 2 weeks,or every month?:are mice better or asf rats???

All BPs should be fed every 5-10 days, depending on size of prey you're offering and number of prey if offering much smaller prey. As nutritional value goes, to my knowledge, there isn't a huge difference between mice, African Soft Fur rats, and other rats. It's usually up to the individual snake's preference. It is believed that most BPs accept ASFs more willingly because that is the prey item most readily available in their natural habitat.

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Originally Posted by Kymberli

All BPs should be fed every 5-10 days, depending on size of prey you're offering and number of prey if offering much smaller prey. As nutritional value goes, to my knowledge, there isn't a huge difference between mice, African Soft Fur rats, and other rats. It's usually up to the individual snake's preference. It is believed that most BPs accept ASFs more willingly because that is the prey item most readily available in their natural habitat.

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see i get that but there born captive so how would they know thats whats in there natural habitat. i breed both mice and asf rats but want to keep just one type of food on the menue.i have one female that will only eat mice but wont touch a asf rat.

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Originally Posted by FINGAZZ

see i get that but there born captive so how would they know thats whats in there natural habitat.

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The same way that some mice and rats instinctively know to be terrified of snakes, despite having never encountered one in captivity before, or had the opportunity to learn to be afraid of one. Because snakes are not raised by their parents, much of what they do is entirely instinctive (like the scent or "movement signature" of one prey item being more appetizing than another).

ASFs are more prone to just freeze when you put them in the enclosure with a snake. Mice are more active. ASFs get larger. BPs prefer the scent of ASFs more.

Just depends on your preference. It is best to attempt to get your BP eating rats tho.

I've heard that older or larger snakes should not be kept only on mice. For an adult ball python, or any larger snake, multiple mice would need to be fed at each feeding. By feeding 4 mice as opposed to a larger rat, the snake is getting less substance in it's diet and more filler, like too much bones and fur. (bones are important for calcium, sure, but at a specific ratio) That's my understanding at least. Although, we are all captive to our snake's desires. :P
Also, in the wild they eat more opportunistically than in captive environments. But most likely whatever they eat in the wild is endothermic, like small mammals and birds.

You have to be careful feeding ASF. Some snakes get imprinted on it and won't eat anything else. That isn't always the case but there's a chance. Rats and mice are easier to get ahold of usually. An ASF eating animal is worth typically less to most people. Myself, I would pass up on an ASF only snake entirely. They aren't available in my area easily.

Regards,

B

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Originally Posted by Simple Man

You have to be careful feeding ASF. Some snakes get imprinted on it and won't eat anything else. That isn't always the case but there's a chance. Rats and mice are easier to get ahold of usually. An ASF eating animal is worth typically less to most people. Myself, I would pass up on an ASF only snake entirely. They aren't available in my area easily.

Regards,

B

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i breed them so feeding them only that isnt a problem.in my area there very hard to come by. i lucked out on this guy that had 4 breeding bins full for a $100 and just switch the elders off to younger ones.once i have baby bp's they will be eating pinlies and mice because if someone picked one up off me they wont have a problem on geting mice to feed them.

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Originally Posted by Anatopism

The same way that some mice and rats instinctively know to be terrified of snakes, despite having never encountered one in captivity before, or had the opportunity to learn to be afraid of one. Because snakes are not raised by their parents, much of what they do is entirely instinctive (like the scent or "movement signature" of one prey item being more appetizing than another).

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i see.makes sence thanks for clearing that up for me...

Oh, and it also depends on where you live. African Soft Fur rats are illegal here in California and several other states. I've heard of some stores selling frozen ASFs here, probably shipped in from other states or possibly some nearly impossible license they've obtained.

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Originally Posted by Kymberli

Oh, and it also depends on where you live. African Soft Fur rats are illegal here in California and several other states. I've heard of some stores selling frozen ASFs here, probably shipped in from other states or possibly some nearly impossible license they've obtained.

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i herd that too i live in florida so i asked a fwc officer about it and he called his superviser and as of right now they are legal plus all they realy go after here are the fishermen and the burms holders.but i breed them for me not for resale so if they were what they dont know wont hurt me.lol

Im currently working on proving rats are better than mice overall for breeding females..

I had a mouse eating female this year lay 6 eggs. One egg was slug and other 5 candled great. Every 5 days into incubation one of her eggs would sweat, then die. Only one egg is left and will hatch.

I have since finally gotten her to move to rats only after 5 years. She will have 1 more year at breeding before i retire her as bad breeder or not. If rats allow for better eggs next season, thats enough Proof IMO that rats are superior to mice..

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Originally Posted by FINGAZZ

i herd that too i live in florida so i asked a fwc officer about it and he called his superviser and as of right now they are legal plus all they realy go after here are the fishermen and the burms holders.but i breed them for me not for resale so if they were what they dont know wont hurt me.lol

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Ah, you're lucky they're legal in your state! Us Californians are pretty much out of luck if we obtain a snake that refuses to eat anything but ASFs. :rolleyes: It's my understanding that certain states have outlawed this species in hopes of preventing another invasive species from damaging our native population.

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Im currently working on proving rats are better than mice overall for breeding females..

I had a mouse eating female this year lay 6 eggs. One egg was slug and other 5 candled great. Every 5 days into incubation one of her eggs would sweat, then die. Only one egg is left and will hatch.

I have since finally gotten her to move to rats only after 5 years. She will have 1 more year at breeding before i retire her as bad breeder or not. If rats allow for better eggs next season, thats enough Proof IMO that rats are superior to mice..

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im leaning that way too now.deff let us know if rats makes the eggs better or not.

This is her second year where her eggs did this, so only one more year till we know ..

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Im currently working on proving rats are better than mice overall for breeding females...thats enough Proof IMO that rats are superior to mice..

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While I agree with you about rats being healthier, I don't thank that's conclusive proof. You would need to be testing this out on multiple females, and then also on males. You would need ball pythons of all life stages. One group would be on mice, and another on rats, and maybe even a third that was split. If you don't set up these kind of variables, it is impossible to know if you have causation or correlation... the mice might be causing the breeding problems, or might just be incidental and correlate to the problems

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Originally Posted by nachash

While I agree with you about rats being healthier, I don't thank that's conclusive proof. You would need to be testing this out on multiple females, and then also on males. You would need ball pythons of all life stages. One group would be on mice, and another on rats, and maybe even a third that was split. If you don't set up these kind of variables, it is impossible to know if you have causation or correlation... the mice might be causing the breeding problems, or might just be incidental and correlate to the problems

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No need to ever do a mice vs rats for males as it wont make or break their fertility. The females is what causes this and with 30 eggs in incubator from all rat eaters and their just fine.

Her being only mouser has 2 years in a row where her eggs go down hill..

Thats plenty proof right there if i can get a good clutch on her 3rd time while being a rat eater.

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Originally Posted by Kymberli

Ah, you're lucky they're legal in your state! Us Californians are pretty much out of luck if we obtain a snake that refuses to eat anything but ASFs. :rolleyes: It's my understanding that certain states have outlawed this species in hopes of preventing another invasive species from damaging our native population.

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i make sure all mine are accounted for plus if any got out it wouldnt make it where i live.too many cats around.lol.but like i said im very carfull not to let any get out.there are a few states that outlaw them.ill try to find a list and post it if i do find one.i dont blame them for outlawing them because they get pregnant have a huge litter of babbies and 3 weeks later there already showing to be pregnant again.there asf baby factories.trust me i see atleast 2 new batches every month in each bin and i have four.thank the lord i have plenty hungry snakes to keep it under control.lol:snake:

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Originally Posted by FINGAZZ

i make sure all mine are accounted for plus if any got out it wouldnt make it where i live.too many cats around.lol.but like i said im very carfull not to let any get out.there are a few states that outlaw them.ill try to find a list and post it if i do find one.i dont blame them for outlawing them because they get pregnant have a huge litter of babbies and 3 weeks later there already showing to be pregnant again.there asf baby factories.trust me i see atleast 2 new batches every month in each bin and i have four.thank the lord i have plenty hungry snakes to keep it under control.lol:snake:

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Exactly! The site I had found that said they were illegal here stated the reason being our average weather is sufficient in supporting ASF life. They would be capable of overpopulating a small area in just a few years.
I was also reading a website with information on keeping/breeding them (CLICK HERE) that has a list of breeders and lists several states in which they are illegal.

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Thats plenty proof right there if i can get a good clutch on her 3rd time while being a rat eater.

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It might be proof. And it is indeed necessary to use males. A more scientific experiment would be to have 3 populations of snakes, each of a 1:1 gender ratio. Using younger snakes, you'd track their growth rates over an extended period of time. You can't use one snake because she might have particular characteristics that skew the results. Snake growth is a better metric than egg laying because so many untestable variables exist with females laying eggs. Also, this way doesn't give any information on males. Most males are smaller, so maybe mice are suitable for them. Now, I'm not saying you need to do that, but it's important to know the limits of any observation

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Originally Posted by Kymberli

Exactly! The site I had found that said they were illegal here stated the reason being our average weather is sufficient in supporting ASF life. They would be capable of overpopulating a small area in just a few years.
I was also reading a website with information on keeping/breeding them (CLICK HERE) that has a list of breeders and lists several states in which they are illegal.

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wow thanks.that helps.nice site.thanks again

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Originally Posted by nachash

It might be proof. And it is indeed necessary to use males. A more scientific experiment would be to have 3 populations of snakes, each of a 1:1 gender ratio. Using younger snakes, you'd track their growth rates over an extended period of time. You can't use one snake because she might have particular characteristics that skew the results. Snake growth is a better metric than egg laying because so many untestable variables exist with females laying eggs. Also, this way doesn't give any information on males. Most males are smaller, so maybe mice are suitable for them. Now, I'm not saying you need to do that, but it's important to know the limits of any observation

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I believe his point is that the results he achieves will be enough proof for himself. Not necessarily everyone else. ;)

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Originally Posted by FINGAZZ

wow thanks.that helps.nice site.thanks again

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You're welcome :)

over all i think rats are healthier, being that they have plenty more protein and less fat. I mean, dogs,cats and humans can even live on an all rat diet and live. Rats exercise more (when not in a small space) then mice do. More protein means more muscle mass for our snakes. like us, when we are more muscle (not body builder muscle) human tend to be more fertile then those woman on a bigger side. though when it comes to breeding its easier to breed mice and asf ahaha they tend not to bite the bejeebus out of everything.