Disappointment in super dwarf breeders..

It seems to me that soon there will be no more pure super dwarf retics at all. Most breeders are more concerned with getting colors and morphs than they are with preserving the true SD's. I have not seen a true 100% SD available in quite some time. Sure there are quite a few on kingsnake but they are not SD's. If they are het for anything, or if they are any visual color morph, this was bred into them by breeding them to mainlands and dwarfs. They will still get as big as a dwarf. Maybe 15 ft or more depending on the breeding. There are no known color morphs of pure SD's as of yet so let's go ahead and ruin them..

Don't these people know that the only true SD blood left in the states is from whatever came in a few years ago? Collecting from those islands has stopped. There is no more importation of these snakes.

Why are people breeding out the tiny 5-7 ft SD?

I was considering selling my male because he is not tame, but I'm thinking that may be a bad move now. People need to breed to keep the species alive, not to make pretty colors. I feel it's wrong to advertise these as SD retics when they are clearly not pure. Someone will buy one after having done research on SD's and when the snake grows to more than 10 ft, they may no longer want it or be able to keep it.

Just a rant

and unfortunately it's not just retics... i'm mainly into aussie pythons. since they don't import them anymore, you know how hard it is to find pure, verifiable specimens??

Do SD fetch more money than morphs?

They did (more than basic morphs) a few years ago. Now they are only a few hundred but so few people still don't know about them. I'm sure more people would love to own a retic but the size is too much. I believe that because they come from a select group of islands, they should be bred together more often to preserve the species.

well its going to hit a point when the cost of dealing with the animal isn't worth the return. and then with all the bills being passed aorund, I don't think breeders are the ones to blame

I've thought of that but I also believe that they may eventually recognize the SD's as a separate subspecies. If they do, it might help us to keep our retics since they are smaller than the average female black rat snake.

We may even be able to help that along. Some well worded letters to certain people couldn't hurt.

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Originally Posted by Colin Vestrand

and unfortunately it's not just retics... i'm mainly into aussie pythons. since they don't import them anymore, you know how hard it is to find pure, verifiable specimens??

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Impossible.

We have no respect for locality or true type.

It's all about the eye candy.

It is unfortunate a friend has been trying to breed Jampea's (sp?) for a while but ended up being sold a small dwarf as a SD. So have SD/D babies now. His plan was to run for smaller animals but the offspring (hold backs) hit 9 foot. He was very upset, although they are really beautiful albinos, they are also still bigger than expected.

Great timing for this thread haha I was just looking into SD retics last night actually. I love the look of retics and it seems like a lot of them are very friendly and tame, but there's no way I would ever be able to handle a 10-15+ ft snake being 5'2 and 120lbs. And I agree... if I thought I was buying a SD and then he grew to be 10 ft, I unfortunately would probably try to find him another home.

So is there anyone who actually sells pure SDs anymore? Or at least high percentage? I was looking on kingsnake last night and also noticed the large amount of hets and morphs, and while I love purple albino retics... I thought it seemed pretty suspicious that they were also saying they were SDs.

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

It is unfortunate a friend has been trying to breed Jampea's (sp?) for a while but ended up being sold a small dwarf as a SD. So have SD/D babies now. His plan was to run for smaller animals but the offspring (hold backs) hit 9 foot. He was very upset, although they are really beautiful albinos, they are also still bigger than expected.

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That's what I'm saying. There are no SD morphs so they shouldn't be advertising them as SD. Too many people just don't know and will it. Many breeders do put the percentage but others don't.

The jampeas are dwarfs. The truly small SDs are the Kaoloata, Kayaudi, and Honey island locales. These are the locales you need to look for.

Someone on CL in my area has an SD for sale, and said they were guaranteed it would be no bigger than 7ft. It's a yr old and 4 ft now, so who knows? Same thing on KS with the burmese......no plain old burmese, which is what I want.....they're all het or double or triple het:(

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Originally Posted by Colin Vestrand

and unfortunately it's not just retics... i'm mainly into aussie pythons. since they don't import them anymore, you know how hard it is to find pure, verifiable specimens??

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Dude, awesome point made. I was really hjust debating on a little project for next season. I have an '01 VPI childrens python female that I was thinking to breed to my BP. But I was weighing in any pros and cons. Your comment far outweighed what I've come up with.

So for that I say thank you. I will continue onto keeping this breed pure.

So if i was interested in getting a SD one of the "small SDs are the Kaoloata, Kayaudi, and Honey island locales" you are saying no one has any because they are mixing the "genes" (for a lack of a better word)?

Up here in Canada, where the true SDs have been for awhile, there are still pure SuperDwarfs available. Recently acquired a female hatchling; and she is tiny!

They have also been working with getting the albinos very small for awhile now, too. My year old female albino SD is maybe 3 feet; normal retic hatchlings are bigger than she is.

Chris

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

I'm sure more people would love to own a retic but the size is too much. I believe that because they come from a select group of islands, they should be bred together more often to preserve the species.

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That's exactly why I'm looking into and researching SD's. Though the frequent searches I do on kingsnake rarely turn up actual SD's. SD/D morphs seem to be more common. I don't want to gamble on the size those snakes will become no matter how BEAUTIFUL an albino is.

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Originally Posted by Colin Vestrand

and unfortunately it's not just retics... i'm mainly into aussie pythons. since they don't import them anymore, you know how hard it is to find pure, verifiable specimens??

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The same goes for extremely rare insular boas. People have already started breeding Sabogaes, pearl islands, boas with Colombian morphs. :mad:

I'm glad I saw this thread.

I saw a guy at my last show who was selling a supposed SD retic. When a guy asked how big it, they stay smaller then dwarves, right? The seller said no, that SD's were never much smaller than just a dwarf and that the one he had would hit 10'

I asked him about that, since I have personally seen an SD that was 5' or so and 8 years old, and he told me that was impossible, that no retic of any kind stayed that small. :confused:

I'd love to get a true SD, I love the look of a retic, but there is no way I could handle a 10'+ animal. I was very upset to think the one I had seen was a fluke.

I think it's a pity people will always demand flashy over purity. Look at all the ridiculous "designer dogs" for example.

You have given me the hope however, that I might just find my true SD one day if I look hard enough.

Gale

Lmao!! I can't believe he would tell you that! If what he had wasn't a mainland but would get that big, then it was a dwarf. Chances are though, it was a mainland/dwarf cross if he knew that little about them.

A true SD male will not exceed 5-5 1/2 ft. Females slightly larger. Honey islands maybe a foot more per gender.

That guy was probably given the wrong info by someone and it just kept getting passed down. That's how bad info gets around.

I've always wanted to keep a breeding pair of several of the rare locales of retics and boas. None of the mixed in morph junk. The problem is I am a college student and can't afford investment right now. I'm worried by the time I get to them they won't be available because nobody will be able to prove the island locales.

My pair of true SD Retics isn't going anywhere and I'm not crossing them into anything. They are gorgeous and I love them just the way they are. Unforseen catastrophes aside, I should have pure true SD Retics for the forseeable future :) There are still people that will keep them pure but they might not be some of the big name people. All of the big names are busy crossing them into color and pattern morphs because it fetches more money. As I see it pure SD are going to become harder and harder to find so that's why I snatched up a pair. It's going to be even harder to find them if the laws get voted in to ban all major constrictors from crossing state lines.

Regards,

B

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Originally Posted by Simple Man

There are still people that will keep them pure but they might not be some of the big name people. All of the big names are busy crossing them into color and pattern morphs because it fetches more money.

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That sums it up perfectly :(

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Originally Posted by Simple Man

My pair of true SD Retics isn't going anywhere and I'm not crossing them into anything. They are gorgeous and I love them just the way they are. Unforseen catastrophes aside, I should have pure true SD Retics for the forseeable future :) There are still people that will keep them pure but they might not be some of the big name people. All of the big names are busy crossing them into color and pattern morphs because it fetches more money. As I see it pure SD are going to become harder and harder to find so that's why I snatched up a pair. It's going to be even harder to find them if the laws get voted in to ban all major constrictors from crossing state lines.

Regards,

B

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Way to go man ! I can't stand people who would mix and match species or locales for the love of money. In my opinion, this is a matter of integrity. If your female ball python won't breed with your male ball, DON'T MIX IT WITH A BLOOD FOR MONEY ( or any other reason). A BEAUTIFUL LOOKING MUTT IS STILL A MUTT !!!!!

Quote Originally Posted by Simple Man View Post
There are still people that will keep them pure but they might not be some of the big name people. All of the big names are busy crossing them into color and pattern morphs because it fetches more money.

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Originally Posted by GoFride

That sums it up perfectly :(

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+1

Being "somewhat" :O of an anal individual with integrity this has always bothered me..

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Originally Posted by Tim Mead

Being "somewhat" :O of an anal individual with integrity this has always bothered me..

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LOL Likewise for me. I had a pair of 100% pure SD retics, my goal with them was to follow the ways of the blood python breeders (selective breeding.)

Bans are definitely a concern as well, in FL. you need a ROC license to own one, and a Class 3 Permit to sell them (which equals up to 150$ a year.) I still haven't given up though, once I move out of Fl. I plan to get back into them.