Help please fast!

Hi,
I bought Cleomantra a medium rat last week from Petco, (frozen) and he ate it just fine, but the one this week is quite a bit fatter around the middle, and I'm worried he can't eat it. It is just about the same width he is around his widest part, maybe a little tiny bit wider, and I think he weighs around 600 grams (he is smaller than Nergal by a good bit and I estimate Nergal is 800-900 grams ish)
Can I safely feed this to him or should I just give him one small rat? He was getting very skinny off of just the small rats and he will not eat mice, period.
Should I try two small rats at once? Or just the one medium?
Thanks

For one a medium rat is huge for anything under 2000g IMO. Anything above Sm rat is a waste of food with ball pythons. Especially since hes only 600g, i would have him eating large wean to small rats.

I don't even have mediums in the freezer, nor have i ever fed any to my bps except for females after laying eggs to fatten them up faster.

One small rat ever 5-7 days is all they need. Keep in mind just cause they can eat it don't mean that's what they should eat.

Mine are eat rats that are just slightly larger in girth than my BPs and they have no problem. One small rat every 6 days.

Ok will give him a small rat then, but last time he was losing weight pretty steadily despite eating a small one every week. they are 40 g, the small rats, mediums are 100 g
last week he took the medium one and has been in his hide instead of wrecking his tank while roaming and hasn't lost weight. he looked so skinny 2 weeks ago it was worrysome.
but am giving a small rat, will just have to buy some more if he loses weight again :(

Small rats run 50-70g, and if hes eating them every 5-7 days he should not be losing weight. If he is i suspect internal parasites and may need a deworming if thats the case.

the rats from petco always run small. small ones are 40g or less always, they are only about 1.5 longer than an adult mouse, and very skinny. they have no meat on them at all.
i guess i'll get him tested then just to be sure

I think a small rat sounds fine if it is 40g. You might try dealing with http://www.glacierrodents.com/ They are in WA and have some great frozen rodents. I dealt with them recently and they earned my business with their prices and the quality of the rodents. They are a big step above the pet retail stores.

Regards,

B

Yeah, the small rats I purchase from a breeder average 56g. The weanlings were 30-40g. I absolutely hate those pre-packaged pet store feeders. More expensive and tend to run smaller.

Buying live from petco can result in the possibility of tape worm. They have other animals coming in and out all day that can bring in Fleas.

In turn your snake ingests the flea and gets the parasite.

This is how i label rats in freezer for snake size

rat fuzzy 5-15g fed to hatchlings
rat pups 15-29g fed to bps 200-400g
wean rat 30-50 fed to bps 400-700g
sm rat 50-70 fed to bps 700+
med rat 70-100 fed to only egg laying females

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Buying live from petco can result in the possibility of tape worm. They have other animals coming in and out all day that can bring in Fleas.

In turn your snake ingests the flea and gets the parasite.

This is how i label rats in freezer for snake size

rat fuzzy 5-15g fed to hatchlings
rat pups 15-29g fed to bps 200-400g
wean rat 30-50 fed to bps 400-700g
sm rat 50-70 fed to bps 700+
med rat 70-100 fed to only egg laying females

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Edit: Maybe I've misinterpreted what the OP has said. I was under the impression they were feeding f/t.

I do feed FT but there was a time when I fed live Petco rodents to my snakes, though they were not losing weight at all back then, and eating the same size rats if not a little bigger.
i fed rats to Cleo from three different stores, but not for about 4 months+ have I done that. (can't stomach it)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shelliebear

I do feed FT but there was a time when I fed live Petco rodents to my snakes, though they were not losing weight at all back then, and eating the same size rats if not a little bigger.
i fed rats to Cleo from three different stores, but not for about 4 months+ have I done that. (can't stomach it)

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Oh, I see. Well then the internal parasite scenario is quite possible! Just because they were not losing weight while you were feeding live, doesn't mean they weren't given internal parasites. It could take a bit of time for the parasites to have a noticeable effect on weight. Same goes for most animals. I've dealt with internal parasites in both horses and dogs.

Come to think of it Nergal is the only one who didn't eat a live mouse from this one store nearby, and he's doing the best while the other BP's aren't putting on much weight. :/

A feeding bp should not be losing weight. At all period. If he is losing dramatic weight while feeding and you are weighing him no earlier than after a defecation or at least a wk after a feed I'd highly suspect internal parasites. Tapeworm, or pin worms are likely at play if you are taking true accurate weights, he is eating, but still losing weight.

I didn't take weights--I don't have a scale, but you could see it. His skin was falling flat against his body in a triangle "tent" like shape, and his spine was more visible.
He was pretty round in the middle of his body, but by his tail it got teeny tiny and skinny, just a few days after feeding (regardless of him defecating or not).
:(
He goes through his tank every night and knocks things over, tries to lift the lid of the tank off, etc. Would parasites cause this behavior as well? I know there are some that can in other animals, but my knowledge of snakes and the parasites that use them as a host is limited at this point. :(

I think, and don't hold it as fact, that if he has internal parasites, he's not getting the proper sustenance and nutrition he needs, so that behavior is him trying to find a way to get to food. At least, that's what my snakes do when they are hungry. Cruise the tank, mess with the lid, etc.

You need to get him to a vet immediately then. Not having a scale and judging weight by eye is not accurate. Unfortunately when we judge by eye we don't notice until they are 1. Emaciated or 2. On deaths door and or both. That's the nature of the beast. They don't show their weaknesses so they don't get eaten. So when they are losing weight you really can't see it. A digital scale costs a meager 10$. You probably would have noticed this months ago before it was a noticeable issue and things would have been a ton easier. A weekly or biweekly weight check does wonders. If you even have one reptile you need a scale. If you happen to have more than 1 it's a necessity. Make an appt for a vet to do a fecal test. They aren't costly and the dewormer isn't costly either. At this point if he is eating and is still losing weight I can assure you that there is some illness at play that needs to be taken care of. The behavior you were speaking of mites would cause but mites wouldn't cause the weight loss to my knowledge. As I said before though a tapeworm or pinworms are two of the most common parasites with reptiles and they do cause eating animals to lose weight. I keep a log on every single herp I have in my house. Especially the balls. Because they are notorious picky eaters a scale is the difference between wondering and knowing.

I had a ball that had tape worm. He shed every week and actually got water blisters on his skin. The tape worm stressed him out so much. I'm not sure if this is common with parasites or not. But pictures of this skinny snake would help. It's hard to say it's losing weight if you don't have scale. The human eye is so imperfect. Unless you're seeing a huuuuge difference. Please post pictures. My 500 gram ball python was taking 60 gram rats just fine. We don't power feed. We feed a little smaller than the thickest around their bodies. I know plenty of awesome breeders who do the same.

Also I've found and heard that snakes grow more on live rats rather than frozen thawed. Is this the only snake eating f/t or are all your snakes eating it?

No--all my snakes eat F/T, and the ones that have eaten F/T the most (Nergal, and my 2 corn snakes) are thriving--getting HUGE and quick.
Madison and Cleo both ate live from three different stores, for a period of about 4-5 months. Cleo has hardly grown at all, although he was big and fat when we got him from the store (that's why we picked him, he was chubby and looked healthy), but Madison has gotten a good bit longer (not any thicker really).
I'm thinking the problem was one of the NW seed and pets around here? Or, another store called
Evergreen pet supply (not the same as evergreen reptile!)
I fed Nergal a live mouse from Petco and from Evergreen, but I don't recall him ever eating any from NW seed and pet.
Will take them into the vet ASAP to get them checked out.
I have been planning to purchase a scale for a while but never got around to it. I didn't know how important it was, but now that I see how much it is, it's going on the top of the shopping list. Thank you.
Shellie