Rack Owners advice needed!

Question: So as my ball python begins to grow i begin to look more and more into tubs, mainly a rack system. My question is, to get right to the point, my room in the winter will only be 68 degrees obviously as the seasons change spring--->fall will not be an issue. I'm concerned that the ambient air temps will not be appropriate for housing a ball python.

Background: My ball python is currently housed in a 10 gallon tank with a 100 watt infrared heat lamp that is on a rheostat to control the temp at 80 degrees. I have an UTH hooked up to a ranco i wired myself that keeps her basking spot at 90 degrees. Humidity is always between 50-60% and when those fantastic blue eyes come stays at 70% all the time with intense supervision to ensure a good shed.

Behavior: She usually is always on her cold side of her enclosure, this holds true until she has been feed she will lay on her warm side! [which is expected as she uses the heat to help aid in digestion.

Hypothesis: Knowing my snake is more prone to the cold side of her enclosure now and uses her belly heat efficiently i don't see why it would be too big of a deal to swap over to a rack. My thoughts are the temps might be lower in the winter months... but in reality I'm sure in the {winter} months in Africa the temperature changes as well. I feel that their will just be a larger difference in temperature for her to thermo-regulate. For example her basking spot always staying at the text book range 89-92 [some people prefer differently] and her cold side what i would expect to be with no heat tape or lamp providing heat on that side to be anywhere from 10-15 degrees different.

I asked an anonymous rack company who is very large and trusted in the industry what their thoughts were...

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In a 68 room temp you would probably want belly heat for what I am guessing is Ball Pythons? That is still a little cool, you will get a basking spot of about 88 ok but the rest of the tub will run a bit cool. It has been done quite successfully but will not match up with textbook conditions.

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Conclusion: Would like to know if anyone else is in the same position as i am in with a cold room and this works for them or what they did! I know getting a portable oil heater [the ones they say at wal-mart would be an easy-fix, and wiring it to its on ranco or thermostat] this is not an option for me. So I'm reaching out to see what people think and if they have done this successfully.

Thanks ahead of time for those who take the time to share their experience and wisdom!

Lilly - The pastel Ball :snake:
Mike - The chemist filled with questions! :rolleye2:

No amount of heat tapeis going to heat the ambient air enough. You need to get your room temps up to the high 70's. I was having problems with my first DIY rack until I realized that my ambient room temp was just far too low for the heat tape to make any sort of difference. I had a low hotside even until I bumped up the room. I can't see risking your animals by attempting to just try with a high 60's room temp. It isn't going to work.

Regards,

B

I had similar problem.... My room in winter sometimes drops to 70-72 degrees.. i bought RBI 32 qt rack with 4"belly heat option.. I have Accu-rRite thermometer with probe in every tub..
Sometimes in winter I need to crank my thermostat to 107 degrees to keep hot spot 88-90 degrees and cold 76-78... i have only 2 BP so checking temp before i go to work and after work everyday is not a big problem for me.. It could be done.. but it's connected to constant checking temp in tubs everyday or even 2x a day...

Thank you for the reply! Knowing the rack i want to get either a DIY or a Retail rack, i will make sure the bottom of the tubs are insulated. CURRENTLY i have Styrofoam boarding under my ten gallon which allowed for some insulation to heat the hot spot to the desired temp. I can understand something with a lot of air circulation can cause what you explained to happen. A rack with 5 sides covering the tub with enough air flow to provide oxygen to the reptile is what i will be after. NOT a rack system that leaves the tubs exposed.

With that said its not a question of getting the basking spot to desired amount. Its a question of in this theoretical situation the basking spot IS 90 Degrees and the ambient air temp is like 70-75 is their any harm for the temperature being that low. Now at first read you would assume well the floor on one side would be 90 and then the air 70-75 but in reality the heat coming off the floor and the humidity will help bring the ambient air temps up as well. SO the snake will still have a place to thermo-regulate from 70-90 degrees which i don't see a problem? If the snake is provided the heat it needs and if it gets too hot it will move away?

Also this is only 1/4th of the year this would happen which I've read multiple places females and balls in general eat less and are conditioned by nature to adjust to the climate change. Its known in some parts of Africa the temperatures to get down to 50 degrees ...

Also from the above quote from the unknown retailer brings up a good debate. I understand the conditions that KEEPERS have set up and observed optimal behavior. This optimal behavior is not REALISTIC these are human controlled equilibrium we have set up. Any given day out in a natural habitats will their warm spot stay 90 degrees or their cool spot stay 80 degrees.

With that said this whole question basically loops back to has anyone done this?

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Originally Posted by Simple Man

No amount of heat tapeis going to heat the ambient air enough. You need to get your room temps up to the high 70's. I was having problems with my first DIY rack until I realized that my ambient room temp was just far too low for the heat tape to make any sort of difference. I had a low hotside even until I bumped up the room. I can't see risking your animals by attempting to just try with a high 60's room temp. It isn't going to work.

Regards,

B

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This is the response i was looking for! thank you :gj::gj::gj:

My current routine is me waking up, misting [taking her out as she is still active that early and mixing and spraying the substrate], checking temps on both sides [adjusting the rheostat/thermostat if need be]. Getting home from work doing the same... getting ready for bed DOING THE SAME! The fact that you only check maybe twice a day is awesome!

Awesome tubs will get rid of the annoying spray the top layer of substrate flip repeat flip repeat with no heat lamp the humidity will be 100% better.

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Originally Posted by Aes_Sidhe

I had similar problem.... My room in winter sometimes drops to 70-72 degrees.. i bought RBI 32 qt rack with 4"belly heat option.. I have Accu-rRite thermometer with probe in every tub..
Sometimes in winter I need to crank my thermostat to 107 degrees to keep hot spot 88-90 degrees and cold 76-78... i have only 2 BP so checking temp before i go to work and after work everyday is not a big problem for me.. It could be done.. but it's connected to constant checking temp in tubs everyday or even 2x a day...

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Also this upgrade will not be done for at least a couple months [by a couple i mean 3-4 months]. The last thing i am going to do is buy a rack set it up and throw my snake in there. Her ten gallon will remain set up for a week until the rack has cycled and appropriate levels are met and checked.

For all of you that know me i researched her ten gallon setup for about 8 months before getting her. I'm not the one to rush into anything so before some one lights a flame i know the health of my snake comes first not the ease of care.

I had a similar problem before I got my rack. So I bought one and put it in my bedroom closet and i just leave the door shut. The temps are very east to keep up with inside a rack, as well as the humidity. I have an AP 7 shelve rack, just FYI. I set the temp on my stat a little higher in the winter so the temps stay warm in the tubs. Make sure you get a rack with solid sides, and back. There are some out there that have open sides and back, those are harder to control the temps and humidity. Hope this helps!

If your going to keep a cooler room temp, then i suggest getting 11" flexwatt for belly heat. This will cover enough of the tub to heat the air. Low 70s will not harm the snake as long as there is a place to warm up when necessary.

If you can get room temps in low 70s, the belly heat will do the rest in a closed rack.

Mkay... That's My Rack.. Like u can See I use thicker layer of substrate(sanichips in this case).... That way even if thermostat is set on higher volume snake dont get burned accidentally.... Temp was set on 102 i drop them after I came from work I dropped it to to 99.9
http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/...t/P1000578.jpg

This is tube with my 1150g YB male :
http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/...t/P1000575.jpg
He just went blue i was checking on him and sometimes he just like go on his hide instead in :rofl:

Tube with 990g My Orange Granite female :
http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/...t/P1000576.jpg
She still prefer smaller hides

Temp of floor of my room at the time of making pictures:
http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/...t/P1000580.jpg

Hopefully with that resolution readings on My temp/humidity units is visible enough for you.

If You have low temp issues remember to use thicker substrate layer .. it helps distribute temperature move even in Tub and prevent burns in winter when You crank thermostat high...(and I was forced this winter in NY to crank my herpstat to 110 for couple days before my supper decided that maybe is little bit too cold in building)

P.s. Temp of my animals as of now 85.4 male 86.1 female...

Thanks for the replies guys and thanks for the pictures! I'm going to continue to research the racks and find out if i do like any retail racks or if I'm going to build one myself to allow optimization for the cold weather.

If you are able to dedicate a room to the rack -> I closed the heater vent to the room and put a towel under the door to hold in heat, and then got a space heater (electric, ~$40) from Home Depot that has a built-in thermostat that turns it on and off. It helped enormously to bump the ambient rooms temps from my usual 68deg in winter to ~76deg, with about a $35/month increase in my electricity bill. It may not be the most energy-efficient setup, but it worked for me.

Hey I get your issues I have a rack in a room that is currently 62ºF. It took lots of tinkering to get the rack correct. It is currently sitting at 90.6 hot spot and 80.6 cool end with an ambient air temp of 79.9.

I tried a few variations and found what worked for me. I have a enclosed rack 1/4 and 1/2 inch thick pvcx. The Rack is sitting up on 2"thick foam insulation and has one inch thick foam on the top and sides. This helps in holding the heat produced by the flex watt. The bottom most slot is not used for snakes as it is too cold. The top one I usually don't have any in either as it runs a bit warm (hot spot is fine but the ambient air is 84 and cool end temp is 82.7 the air temp is the deal breaker)

I found that the inaccuracy of the ranco I borrowed combined with its tendency to over shoot made it too scary for my taste (remember it is in a cool room that is not at all stable it worked great if I wanted to run the oil heater that cost 100$ every 2 months) I found that I needed the fast adjustments of a proportional unit to keep the over shooting to a dull roar.

I have run 4 inch flex watt for the hot spot and used 17 for the rest. The 17 is a god send it simply will not get much hotter than 87º ever and in place and in practice in the rack when I tested it I maxed out at 83º so in a failure it will not over heat. The probes are on the middle slot on top of the thickness of plastic of the tubs between the flex watt and probe it gives more accurate temps. I have probes for both hot and cool ends. The lower most slot also has the same flex watt but has an enclosed front so the heat is trapped there.

That is my best solution I came up with it is far less costly than the oil heater in my case and I even saved enough off the power bill this winter to completely pay for the 17 inch flex watt and the herpstat pro I use for the rack control.

The key points is minimize the heat loss out the top and sides, protect the bottom from using the floor as a heat sync. Generate a hot air pocket that will escape up rather than out to help with the ambient air temps in the rack. Make sure that you don't have dramatic swings from the slow response of the controller. The air vents have upward facing scoops placed on them to attempt to draw warmer lighter air in and leave the heavier cool air alone I am not sure if it made any difference at all I have not tinkered with it as it is hard to get at them. I'd also as the complete tub is on flex watt highly recommend a back up on/off T-stat in case of failure.

This is MY solution it has worked in both hot and cool temps with very even and contestant temps it seemed expensive but it reality I have saved on power quite dramatically so it really didn't cost that much to do. I am sure there are 100 other ways to manage the same issues but this one is mine hopefully there are some ideas here that might help you solve yours.
Alex

Thank you so much Kite, you've been helping me since day one i cannot thank you enough!

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

Hey I get your issues I have a rack in a room that is currently 62ºF. It took lots of tinkering to get the rack correct. It is currently sitting at 90.6 hot spot and 80.6 cool end with an ambient air temp of 79.9.

I tried a few variations and found what worked for me. I have a enclosed rack 1/4 and 1/2 inch thick pvcx. The Rack is sitting up on 2"thick foam insulation and has one inch thick foam on the top and sides. This helps in holding the heat produced by the flex watt. The bottom most slot is not used for snakes as it is too cold. The top one I usually don't have any in either as it runs a bit warm (hot spot is fine but the ambient air is 84 and cool end temp is 82.7 the air temp is the deal breaker)

I found that the inaccuracy of the ranco I borrowed combined with its tendency to over shoot made it too scary for my taste (remember it is in a cool room that is not at all stable it worked great if I wanted to run the oil heater that cost 100$ every 2 months) I found that I needed the fast adjustments of a proportional unit to keep the over shooting to a dull roar.

I have run 4 inch flex watt for the hot spot and used 17 for the rest. The 17 is a god send it simply will not get much hotter than 87º ever and in place and in practice in the rack when I tested it I maxed out at 83º so in a failure it will not over heat. The probes are on the middle slot on top of the thickness of plastic of the tubs between the flex watt and probe it gives more accurate temps. I have probes for both hot and cool ends. The lower most slot also has the same flex watt but has an enclosed front so the heat is trapped there.

That is my best solution I came up with it is far less costly than the oil heater in my case and I even saved enough off the power bill this winter to completely pay for the 17 inch flex watt and the herpstat pro I use for the rack control.

The key points is minimize the heat loss out the top and sides, protect the bottom from using the floor as a heat sync. Generate a hot air pocket that will escape up rather than out to help with the ambient air temps in the rack. Make sure that you don't have dramatic swings from the slow response of the controller. The air vents have upward facing scoops placed on them to attempt to draw warmer lighter air in and leave the heavier cool air alone I am not sure if it made any difference at all I have not tinkered with it as it is hard to get at them. I'd also as the complete tub is on flex watt highly recommend a back up on/off T-stat in case of failure.

This is MY solution it has worked in both hot and cool temps with very even and contestant temps it seemed expensive but it reality I have saved on power quite dramatically so it really didn't cost that much to do. I am sure there are 100 other ways to manage the same issues but this one is mine hopefully there are some ideas here that might help you solve yours.
Alex

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