Thermostat help

I have the Reptile Basics MCB-S wide rack attached to a Herpstat. The probe is taped directly down to the flexwatt (belly heat). Now I have had to crank up the thermostat to 104.5 so far, probably going to have to be more because the temps inside the tubs according to my temp gun are in the low to mid 80's. Does this sound normal? I'm just trying to find out if maybe there is a connection problem, or maybe the probe isn't taped to the right spot? I use newspaper as substrate in the tubs, but even the very bottom of the tubs are reading mid 80's. I don't want to fry them, but I also don't want them to get a RI due to too low temps. Anyone have this rack and have to crank up the temps similarly? Anyone with this rack and I'd assume any rack from Reptile Basics knows that the flexwatt does not come into direct contact with the tubs. Any help would be appreciated.

My rack is set up the same way and I have it set to 95ºF and the tubs inside are at 90º How long did you allow it to stabilize before it takes a day or so at least that is what i found. What is the ambient room temp? That too will make a huge difference.

I keep my heat around 68 inside my apartment, but with the warm weather it's been around 75 or so. I did let it run for a day at about 96 and I cranked it up after that gradually, taking temps after a few hours of changing it. It's been like 3 days now and I just can't seem to get the temps to 90. I use a temp gun, I take temps over the newspaper because I don't think it's meant for clear or shiny substances, but even the bottom of the tub when I do take it is only at 85ish.

you might try taking an acurite indoor/outdoor thermometer and tape the outdoor probe over the hot spot on the inside of an empty tub. that would give you a good temp reading for the shelf, then you can switch it to another shelf and so on.:gj:

Yeah, I religiously used my temp gun when they were in my DIY rack tubs and it worked out perfectly, I didn't realize how difficult it would be in this new rack. I'll try a probed digital thermometer and go from there.

It sounds like that's because of the heat tape trying to do too much work (too much temp dif between the room and rack) I bet the fact that it doesn't touch the tub makes it harder to retain heat as well. Airflow = lower temp. I had to crank mine until I realized that just wasn't safe. I started keeping my room at 79-81 and the temps stabilized perfectly. I now have my Herpstat set at 93.8 degrees and it does a perfect job keeping temps stable at 90-91 on my hotside. Have you tried setting your proportional setting up to Hi1 or Hi2? You got to remember that Flexwatt is like 8 watts a foot for 4". That just isn't going to heat a room full of air when the temps fall under a certain amount.

Regards,

B

I didn't know Herpstat had a H1 or H2 setting? I'll read over the directions later and figure this thing out. I don't have a room for my snakes so it will be impossible to raise my room temps without affecting the whole house.

It looks like the back of the rack is open like the front. I had the same problem with a DIY rack that was open because I keep my house cool is winter.

Place a wired probe in one of the tubs and keep the main unit on top of the rack so you can easily read the inside temp. Cover the front and back with bath towels.

The towels keep the heat inside and the thermostat doesn't have to work so hard. I have nine snakes in a rack that's covered and they're all fine and the temps are maintained well.

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Originally Posted by JohnNJ

It looks like the back of the rack is open like the front. I had the same problem with a DIY rack that was open because I keep my house cool is winter.

Place a wired probe in one of the tubs and keep the main unit on top of the rack so you can easily read the inside temp. Cover the front and back with bath towels.

The towels keep the heat inside and the thermostat doesn't have to work so hard. I have nine snakes in a rack that's covered and they're all fine and the temps are maintained well.

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Just curious, after hanging the towels (which I think is a great idea)... do you ever lack ambient lighting for the animals? Or do they get enough day light through the sides of the tubs?

Unplug your Herpstat and hold the left button. Plug it back in and release it. It should flash and then you will start with Fea or Cel, then Heat/Cool, and then Prop/On-Off, then the prop curve which shows as Std. You can change the value up and down to (Lo1, Lo2, <<Std>>, Hi1, Hi2) This changes the proportional curve of heating. The less efficient your enclosure is, the higher this setting should be. If you find the thermostat overshooting the number a lot you probably want to drop the next lowest setting. If it spends most of the time under your setting you need to increase it. After playing with this I was able to reduce my temp from 97 like it shows in my gallery to 93. I still get the same 89-91 temp but it is much more stable and at a lower temp! Don't mess with any of the temp settings after the proportional curve. These are designed for night drop and matching the thermostat to other equipments sensors. PM me if you need more help.

Regards,

B

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Originally Posted by JohnNJ

It looks like the back of the rack is open like the front. I had the same problem with a DIY rack that was open because I keep my house cool is winter.

Place a wired probe in one of the tubs and keep the main unit on top of the rack so you can easily read the inside temp. Cover the front and back with bath towels.

The towels keep the heat inside and the thermostat doesn't have to work so hard. I have nine snakes in a rack that's covered and they're all fine and the temps are maintained well.

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I'm sorry, but the back is not open at all, there is only a hole in the top left corner for the flexwatt cords and for the thermostat probe to enter. Other than that the back is covered...

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Originally Posted by cdavidson9

Just curious, after hanging the towels (which I think is a great idea)... do you ever lack ambient lighting for the animals? Or do they get enough day light through the sides of the tubs?

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They don't need any light but I'm sure the white towels I use do not block 100% of the daylight or lamps. I remove the front towel to check on them daily plus feeding and play times.

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Originally Posted by LGray23

I'm sorry, but the back is not open at all, there is only a hole in the top left corner for the flexwatt cords and for the thermostat probe to enter. Other than that the back is covered...

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Then just cover the front.

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Originally Posted by JohnNJ

Then just cover the front.

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I will try that, thank you :)

I here what you say about the tubs not touching the flexwatt. I have the same issue and have to crank mine up to maintain 87-88. The way the sterilite tubs are made only the ridge around the edge touches. I live dwon south and during the day temps are higher in the house cause we both work and AC is set higher. But when bedtime comes AC gets cranked down and temps in tubs drop off. So I have just come to a happy medium and let it ride. I love my babies but they are tougher than most people believe

I don't believe there is a 'right' answer for any heat issue, just different answers. Each keeper needs to over come the individual set up issues that they encounter. I also have a cool room, 68 is high and I often see 63 in the winter. Racks are very space efficient but are really really poor when it come to heat.

My solution may or may not work but it worked for me. I run cool side heaters on my rack, rigged up the 17 inch flexwatt on the cool side controlled by a herpstat it is set as you might expect to 82ºF and delivers 80 inside the tubs. The next thing was to add a piece of rigid foam insulation to the top and bottom of the rack to help a bit. I then (being a spaz with such things) stopped using the top and bottom tubs as they ran quite different from the others. I then wired the bottom with a 11 flexwatt strip the runs front to back (no animals in the bottom) and covered the front of that compartment so the heat holds and rises inside the rack. (it is on an on off t-stat set to 100º as it is just an air heater)

Since I have perfect temps but the effort to get there was quite silly really 3 t-stats for a 5 (3 as the top and bottom are useless) rack is a bit excessive I know. I have a very draughty place and heating up the whole room just isn't practical. The simple solution is if you want the rack just heat the room to the cool end temps. If that isn't possible well so other way needs to be found. Mine is a bit over the top but then again I have a 450 dollar thermometer as I just could not tolerate the error of cheap ones.

Good Luck maybe this might spark an idea.
Alex

Some good ideas here. Im gonna give the towel idea a shot for now especially at night when we cool the house down...

The power matching curves (h1, h2 etc) only come into play if the temp is getting within one degree of the set temperature and you just want to bump the power up to make it the last few tenths to get even closer. If the temp on the display is less than one degree from you actual setting then its feeding full power to the heat device (same as plugging the heat device straight into the wall). So if the temp never reaches within a degree then its not the thermostat its the ambient temp / power of the heating device.

For people who put the probes directly on the heat tape you will always have to experiment with higher temperatures to get the right temp in the tubs. If you want to take the easy route put the thermostat probe in the tub, set your tub temp, and let the thermostat do the work for you. Just use clear packaging tape to secure the probe in the tub closest to the heat source. Never use aluminum tape to secure a temperature probe or you will get false readings.

Hope that helps. :D

Dion Brewington
Owner, Spyder Robotics

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Originally Posted by spyderrobotics

If you want to take the easy route put the thermostat probe in the tub, set your tub temp, and let the thermostat do the work for you. Just use clear packaging tape to secure the probe in the tub closest to the heat source.
Dion Brewington
Owner, Spyder Robotics

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if you have ever seen a snake wrapped up in tape you would never suggest tape inside an enclosure. im guessing you havent. i have and its not a pretty site.

if you want to put the probe inside the tub you can drill small holes in the tub over the area where the heat source is and use a zip tie or a twist tie. use tape on the under side of the enclosure to keep spilled water or urine from leaking out of the holes.

oh, and correct me if i am wrong but whether you put the probe inside the enclosure or directly on the heat tape really shouldnt matter. the tape/heat source will have to emitt the same amount of heat to get the proper temps inside the enclosure. only the "set temp" will be different. it will have to be set higher if the probe is directly on the tape and set lower if inside the enclosure. but either way the heat will be the same depending on your animals specific requirements.

and one other thing i really have to point out. LGray, you have the most beautiful smile :oops:

The probe in the tub will deliver the set temps as long as the range from the room temps to set temp is not too far apart.

The problem that I believe LGray is having is that the range is too far for the flexwatt to safely heat the tub. I believe, although I can no longer find the instructions that came from the manufacturer (calorique) the maximum sustained temps for the flex watt was 110ºF I could be wrong that is the number stuck in my head anyway I can't seem to find the sheet on line either. They make a lot of variations.

The solution I think anyway is to create a second micro environment with the rack. Not only in the tubs. Insulating the rack will help, but I believe that that alone will not be enough. Assuming the tubs hot spot hits 90 the other end is unlikely in my experience to be much more than 5-7º higher than the room is, that make the cool end 73-75º which is still quite cool.

If you are not interested in a cool end flexwatt system ($$) and locally heating the room in is in is not practice ($$$). Towels may help some and insulating the top bottom (in my case the floor is very cold...) and sides may help but in my experiments with the same issue that simply isn't enough I found that with out some supplemental heating on the rack the cool end temps and ambient temps were outside where I felt was acceptable. (my room temps are 65-7 winter)

I think you will find that you need to add a heat source somewhere in the loop either the room, the rack, or at the tub. But somewhere. I just had a second thought can you enclose the rack in a closet or something then you might have an easier time heating the smaller space up some.

cecilbturtle,
the zip tie is a great idea if you need to probe the enclosure due to wide room temp swings and an lee efficient enclosure. I have been using hot melt glue (unplug the probe) but zip ties are better, I'll try that next cleaning day!

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Originally Posted by cecilbturtle

if you have ever seen a snake wrapped up in tape you would never suggest tape inside an enclosure. im guessing you havent. i have and its not a pretty site.

if you want to put the probe inside the tub you can drill small holes in the tub over the area where the heat source is and use a zip tie or a twist tie. use tape on the under side of the enclosure to keep spilled water or urine from leaking out of the holes.

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I have never seen a snake wrapped in tape. :P Good point, and I really like the zip tie idea. Using this method be sure to secure the probe tip and a inch or so behind the probe tip on the wire. This will give the probe some strain relief and prevent a accidental tug from damaging the wire connection inside the probe tip. Also to clarify my comment about aluminum tape:

The reason aluminum tape shouldn't be used is because it acts like a heat sink to the ambient air. It gives the probe more surface area to the airflow going across it which makes its readings lower than if you use standard tape. Also the metal can act as a antenna for electrical interference with the data the sensor is providing (less common). Also if you are using aluminum tape on flexwatt you could be generating a hot spot that might be prone to failure. Plus its conductive so it could pose a shock hazard or increase the fire hazard should the tape ever fail.

-Dion

As kitedemon said the room temp is usually the biggest factor in good regulation. Flexwatt can only take you so far. Bumping the room temp 1 or 2 degrees higher can make a big difference. Keeping a setup away from a cold outside wall or away from a house vent or drafty door are other simple fixes that can work. I've also seen lamps pointed at the enclosures used on appliance timers to bump day temps up.

-Dion

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Originally Posted by cecilbturtle

oh, and correct me if i am wrong but whether you put the probe inside the enclosure or directly on the heat tape really shouldnt matter. the tape/heat source will have to emitt the same amount of heat to get the proper temps inside the enclosure. only the "set temp" will be different. it will have to be set higher if the probe is directly on the tape and set lower if inside the enclosure. but either way the heat will be the same depending on your animals specific requirements.

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When putting it directly on the heat tape many people do not realize the temp needs to be set higher than what you expect to get in the enclosure. Also when putting it on the heat tape you are only regulating the heat tape. So while your heat tape stays nice and regulated the ambient temperature of your is raising and lowering evertime your furnace or air conditioner stays on. Those changes will affect the temperature in your tubs as it may take more/less power to maintain your desired tub temp. The thermostat will not compensate because it is only regulating where the probe is (at the heat tape).

If the probe is in the tub then the ambient air changes wont matter as much because the thermostat knows what temp is in the tubs and will add/remove power as necessary.

-Dion

ahh....that makes perfect sense

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Originally Posted by spyderrobotics

The reason aluminum tape shouldn't be used is because it acts like a heat sink to the ambient air. It gives the probe more surface area to the airflow going across it which makes its readings lower than if you use standard tape. Also the metal can act as a antenna for electrical interference with the data the sensor is providing (less common). Also if you are using aluminum tape on flexwatt you could be generating a hot spot that might be prone to failure. Plus its conductive so it could pose a shock hazard or increase the fire hazard should the tape ever fail.

-Dion

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Wow I am so glad I created this thread, I've seen so many helpful ideas and so far I have been able to raise the temps. However I had NO idea aluminum tape shouldn't be used to tape down the probe, that is what I have on both of my racks. I am going to change this asap. And thanks Cecilbturtle for the flattering compliment :giggle: