Breeding project: Bumble Bees or Fireflies

I have a male spider and a male fire. I'm getting a pastel female today, but not sure where I want to go with this... fireflies? bumble bees? I just wanted to ask and see what do you guys favor out of these two morphs.

Why not both lol

Yeah, do both. There is always a small chance you get both bee's and firefly's. And I love a "who's your daddy's clutch."

Good Luck!

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Originally Posted by LGray23

Why not both lol

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This is all new to me :D
So I can breed my fire and my spider to my pastel and get offspring that reflects both?

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Originally Posted by Vitto

This is all new to me :D
So I can breed my fire and my spider to my pastel and get offspring that reflects both?

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Yes! As long as she retains sprem from both males. I wouldn't do it at the same time, but alternate males. Spider 3 days, 3 days rest, fire 3 days, 3 days rest, repeat!

Of course, have two dads of the same clutch doesn't happen very often. But, it does happen. :)

It happens quite often where a clutch is sired by two daddies, good luck! :D

go for just fireflies! don't waste potential flies with spider genes. fireflies not only don't have any issue with the spider wobble but instead of browning out like alot of bees they get brighter and better as they grow.

I would do both also.

If I had to pick one I'd go Bumblebee but if I were in your position I'd put her to both males.;)

Good luck!

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Originally Posted by jason_ladouceur

go for just fireflies! don't waste potential flies with spider genes. fireflies not only don't have any issue with the spider wobble but instead of browning out like alot of bees they get brighter and better as they grow.

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FYI - The spider gene is not a waste!

Spider's rock! :irkd:

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Originally Posted by stratus_020202

FYI - The spider gene is not a waste!

Spider's rock! :irkd:

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I agree! Don't hate the spider gene, my second favorite bp is my spider female, wobble or not.

I agree I love my spider stuff! Do both it's so much more fun. 

Although I love spiders, I would go with the fireflys. I am a much bigger fan of fireflys than bumblebees.

Firefly, They just get better with age:gj:

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Originally Posted by stratus_020202

FYI - The spider gene is not a waste!

Spider's rock! :irkd:

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o.k. so without getting into a debate about the ethics of breeding spiders because of their neurological abnormalities. I like some people don’t like spiders because of this problem, others like yourself and I would assume do to the fact that they own one the O.P do. To each their own. But IMO bees are for lack of a better term are very “been there done that” for the community as a hole. That’s not to say that there isn’t a demand for them because there definitely is but there is so many available. Finding firefly’s can be a bit of a challenge, at least here. Bees on the other hand are a dime a dozen. Then add to this the fact that I have seen some really high quality adult bees that have held there colour very well and they still don’t hold a candle to even average adult firefly’s IMO. And let’s not forget that fire has a super form, a super form I might add that seems to benefit from the pastel gene and that’s why I believe that if there a choice to be made between spider and fire that there really isn’t any choice at all.

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Originally Posted by jason_ladouceur

o.k. so without getting into a debate about the ethics of breeding spiders because of their neurological abnormalities. I like some people don’t like spiders because of this problem, others like yourself and I would assume do to the fact that they own one the O.P do. To each their own. But IMO bees are for lack of a better term are very “been there done that” for the community as a hole. That’s not to say that there isn’t a demand for them because there definitely is but there is so many available. Finding firefly’s can be a bit of a challenge, at least here. Bees on the other hand are a dime a dozen. Then add to this the fact that I have seen some really high quality adult bees that have held there colour very well and they still don’t hold a candle to even average adult firefly’s IMO. And let’s not forget that fire has a super form, a super form I might add that seems to benefit from the pastel gene and that’s why I believe that if there a choice to be made between spider and fire that there really isn’t any choice at all.

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Oh, I agree. Fire's are probably more worth the effort. But, I still love spiders, and think they make some awesome combos.

It's more of a pattern vs color mutation. Spiders are more of a pattern mutation, and fire's are another highlighter morph. So, I think it's like apples and oranges. As for super's, you can only go so far with a leucistic, but it has amazing offspring potential.

I love my bee. His pattern AND color blow me away. Fireflies are great and more of a smarter business decision but the bees just look great. Color morphs are cool to me and I have several I will be working with but the pattern morphs are much more of a "shock" factor. The spider is a pattern and color morph. If you're goal is to make money or white snakes then I would definitely go for Fireflies. If you want a great looking snake (if that's your own opinion) then I would go for the bees. You can always breed one or the other the following year.

Regards,

B

Thanks everyone!
I know it's not simple choice. There are different factors to be weighed. I have noticed a lot more bumble bees out there vs. fireflies, so I may try for fireflies based on that.
I don't mind the wobble... my spider really doesn't have it bad. Personally, I can't even tell.

Again thanks and keep em coming... fireflies vs. bumble bees vs. both... awesome discussion

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Originally Posted by Simple Man

I love my bee. His pattern AND color blow me away. Fireflies are great and more of a smarter business decision but the bees just look great. Color morphs are cool to me and I have several I will be working with but the pattern morphs are much more of a "shock" factor. The spider is a pattern and color morph. If you're goal is to make money or white snakes then I would definitely go for Fireflies. If you want a great looking snake (if that's your own opinion) then I would go for the bees. You can always breed one or the other the following year.

Regards,

B

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I love your bee too. Just Sayin.

1) Sell spider male
2) Buy spider female
3) Breed fire male to pastel female and produce male fire fly
4) Breed firefly male to spider female and produce fire bee

Problem solved....:)

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Originally Posted by JayCee

1) Sell spider male
2) Buy spider female
3) Breed fire male to pastel female and produce male fire fly
4) Breed firefly male to spider female and produce fire bee

Problem solved....:)

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That would be why you want at least a 3:1 female to male ratio... Good point.

Regards,

B

Wow! I guess I was looking to narrow. A Fire Bee would be awesome. What do one of those go for from a private breeder at the low price. I'm a huge fan of the genetics vs. the money making, so if I plan to sell offspring it would be at a lower price.

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Originally Posted by JayCee

1) Sell spider male
2) Buy spider female
3) Breed fire male to pastel female and produce male fire fly
4) Breed firefly male to spider female and produce fire bee

Problem solved....:)

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OR....
1)sell male spider
2)buy female pinstripe
3) Breed fire male to pastel female and produce male fire fly
4) Breed firefly male to pinstripe female and produce dragon fly

now those are awsome!:D

http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/dragon-fly/

Do both but finish with the one you want to hit the most :)

I'd put them both in with her (alternating times of course) and end with the Fire. Fireflies and Bees are both incredible morphs so I understand your dilemma!!

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Originally Posted by Kymberli

I'd put them both in with her (alternating times of course) and end with the Fire. Fireflies and Bees are both incredible morphs so I understand your dilemma!!

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They certainly are a tough choice :P
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/a...y/PICT5666.jpg

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

They certainly are a tough choice :P
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/a...y/PICT5666.jpg

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:gj: Wow, those two are stunning... Thanks for posting them!

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Originally Posted by Vitto

Wow! I guess I was looking to narrow. A Fire Bee would be awesome. What do one of those go for from a private breeder at the low price. I'm a huge fan of the genetics vs. the money making, so if I plan to sell offspring it would be at a lower price.

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As a breeder this is one of the things that upsets me. The reason prices are falling is because people aren't willing to hold their prices. I set all my prices at market level. I check with all the big name breeders and then set my pricing the same as theirs, and you know what? My snakes sell. I don't have problems moving them at the higher price. I keep them in clean enclosures, I work with the best examples of morphs I can get my hands on, and if for some reason it doesn't sell and it gets held back... the price just keeps going up. I will sell it as a breedable adult, but not for the price of a hatchling. And if for some reason I still haven't sold it by that time, I'll breed it out again. Remember folks, it takes time and a lot of hard work to raise healthy quality ball pythons, and your time an efforts are worth something!

That's the same thing I do. Check with the big boys and if there's alot of fluctuation in pricing I go in-between. As we all know some are a
Little higher priced because they are coming from name branders. Totally understandable. But as a small breed I certainly don't drop my prices just to sell the animals. Frankly thats just rude. That's why spiders are now 150-175. Bs. Look at pastels. Even less. I keep them at fair market. Bc let's be honest we all put the same (most do anyways) amount of work into these guys. Anyways I agree and do the same. It's only right. Plus if they get to size. Why not breed them. Ya it means one more tub. Mire babies in the end.

I'm don't have a lot of snakes and don't plan to. I think 5 max is fine for me. So breeding to make money is never really going to happen for me, unless I get into some of the high end morphs. Again when I do sell any of my offspring it will be to other breeders that helped me get started as a "thank you". Now if I do sell to the public, I will post as market price. I understand where you are coming from with frustrating price drops within the market. But I don't plan to sell to the market. I'm trying to establish a good working relationship with local breeders and they have helped me get initiated, so in return why not give them an opportunity to get babies at the lower rate?