Attention all herp owners!

THIS MESSAGE IS TO ALL REPTILE AND AMPHIBIAN OWNERS! whether you own a single herp or 30000.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...1t:429,r:1,s:0
Dear fellow herper our hobby is in danger,
grave danger.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...t:429,r:13,s:0
I'm sure you have heard many times about the federal constrictor ban.
Thats not what the point of this is.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...1t:429,r:0,s:0
Because the constrictor ban only focuses on the big 9.
So why should it matter to a non big snake owner?
If this ban passes then next will come the rest all crumbling down. BP's corn snakes then the lizards will become banned.
Dont believe me?
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...1t:429,r:7,s:0
Than just wait give it a year or so after the ban passes.
But do we really want to wait for it to happen?
Without the support of the herp community this bill will pass, no doubt.
Every herper needs to do something to help end this bill whether thats donating to USARK or protesting or whatever we all need to play our part.
Please whatever you do DON'T just throw this off to the side if you want your hobby to exist than we all need to help.

If they can ban boa constrictors, they can ban ball pythons.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jeremy Browning

THIS MESSAGE IS TO ALL REPTILE AND AMPHIBIAN OWNERS! whether you own a single herp or 30000.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...1t:429,r:1,s:0
Dear fellow herper our hobby is in danger,
grave danger.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...t:429,r:13,s:0
I'm sure you have heard many times about the federal constrictor ban.
Thats not what the point of this is.
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...1t:429,r:0,s:0
Because the constrictor ban only focuses on the big 9.
So why should it matter to a non big snake owner?
If this ban passes then next will come the rest all crumbling down. BP's corn snakes then the lizards will become banned.
Dont believe me?
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...1t:429,r:7,s:0
Than just wait give it a year or so after the ban passes.
But do we really want to wait for it to happen?
Without the support of the herp community this bill will pass, no doubt.
Every herper needs to do something to help end this bill whether thats donating to USARK or protesting or whatever we all need to play our part.
Please whatever you do DON'T just throw this off to the side if you want your hobby to exist than we all need to help.

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http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...smith/redx.jpg

Anything you can as i said donate to USARK protest speak to a congressman/woman

Quote:

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Originally Posted by j_h_smith

http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b2...smith/redx.jpg

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:rofl:



I'm wondering if some of this thread has disappeared somehow. :confused:

But, in all seriousness, if there is to be a ban on Ball Pythons in the next few years, I am moving to the UK.. Farewell :salute:

well what im saying is simple pull one snakes and the whole thing collapses. if they can ban big snakes than little ones are next.
BTW why would some of this thread dissapear?:confused::snake::confused:

I'm not saying that I agree with it, but they have a reason to ban big snakes. That excuse is not going to work with smaller species, and, short of PETA/HSUS taking over the country, I don't see how any other justification is going to fly.

I'm not really worried at all. Although it is a bit of a bummer because I was hoping to have a retic one day. :mad:

No idea why it would, all I know is we see boxes with red "X's" in them, or "broken pictures". Lol just confused me.

They are in effect about to kill our hobby now. This new law they are trying to pass will make crossing state lines with ANY snake illegal. No shipping, no going to out of state shows , all of this would now led to felony charges.

Hi,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jeremy Browning

well what im saying is simple pull one snakes and the whole thing collapses. if they can ban big snakes than little ones are next.
BTW why would some of this thread dissapear?:confused::snake::confused:

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This is my first reading of the thread so could you tell me what dissapeared?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kymberli

No idea why it would, all I know is we see boxes with red "X's" in them, or "broken pictures". Lol just confused me.

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That is because the original post used links to google image search results rather than to actual pictures.


dr del

Quote:

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Originally Posted by spitzu

I'm not saying that I agree with it, but they have a reason to ban big snakes. That excuse is not going to work with smaller species, and, short of PETA/HSUS taking over the country, I don't see how any other justification is going to fly.

I'm not really worried at all. Although it is a bit of a bummer because I was hoping to have a retic one day. :mad:

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This Bill is not just about "Big Snakes." Look at the list. One of the listed animals is "Boa Constrictor." Eight snakes on that list are listed by name, but Boa Constrictor is more of a genus or category of snake, and there are alot of different snakes that fall into that category, with half, if not more, of them staying in the 5-7ft. as adults. Some of those have endangered wild populations and are only thriving in captivity because of breeders and keepers.

They don't need justification. All they need is the paranoia of the majority.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by spitzu

I'm not saying that I agree with it, but they have a reason to ban big snakes. That excuse is not going to work with smaller species, and, short of PETA/HSUS taking over the country, I don't see how any other justification is going to fly.

I'm not really worried at all. Although it is a bit of a bummer because I was hoping to have a retic one day. :mad:

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You need to do a little more research. First off, this bill is just a shortened version of HR 669. That is what they are really going for in the long run. A ban of all invasive species.

Second, what is the "reason" for banning big snakes? Just because they are big? Or, maybe it's easier to get hurt from not being responsible? Please. You can say that about any animal. Not just big snakes.

Yes, our hobby is in danger. The "facts" they are using to back this bill are wrong, and skewed to side with H$U$. It wouldn't be hard to do the same with balls, lizards, birds, etc. Come on. This is what they want. They want to split us up. Take down one section of pet ownership at a time.

Read USARK's studies please. Get better informed than you are, and then help spread the word.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,



This is my first reading of the thread so could you tell me what dissapeared?



That is because the original post used links to google image search results rather than to actual pictures.


dr del

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Ah! Thank you! :gj: I'm not technologically savvy, so I wasn't sure :P

As Stratus said if you ban one you can do it to others, additionally the only attack cases the owner does something wrong. of course big snakes are a responsibility but what makes owning a burmese or reticulated python () any more dangerous than owning a dog ( large carnivores that are usually nice but when abused can be mean). Plus a dogs teeth are MUCH bigger than any snakes teeth.

P.S. all you need to ban balls corns and other herps is mass hysteria and a sprinkle of sensationalism and you've got yourself a ban.
P.S.S. If this ban passes im moving to Canada.

If you are on this forum and not a USARK member, you need to look into it. IMO

USARK is the best protection for our reptile keeping rights.

If anyone remembers not to long ago it was focused on a crocodilian ban, there was no controversy on snakes and look what happened!

It boggles my mind that a person can't have a slow-moving, docile, totally chilled boa, even if they never take it out of the enclosure, but it's "their right" to own a 180 lb German Shepherd that can run 20 - 30 mph, that will bite a HELL of a lot harder, and that can legally be TRAINED to guard property and attack on command. Wtf?

Speaking of, on this constrictor ban, is there a grandfather clause? Because I'm getting my first boa next week and I'll hide her before I give her up.

What you said is very true and yes the father or grandfather of this bill was the crocodilian ban. African rock python bite: 1/2 in. teeth with 6 ibs. of force. SMALL domestic dog bite: 1/2-2 in. teeth and more than 150 ibs. of force.

BTW, congrats on your new boa if the ban succeeds and i cant get a permit than the the united states of bad politicians has lost another citizen.:snake::snake::snake:

Since 1990, there have been 9 total recorded fatalities related to large constrictors... not to sound insensitive or anything, but that's nothing. Do these people know how many injuries and deaths related to domestic horses and dogs occur? Huge numbers!!

Biased much?

The basis of the ban is the invasive species Everglades problem with the burma.They just use propaganda like ohhh they hurt your kids and animals, oh and my favorite they are going to take over 1/3 of the US with global warming, to gain unknowing supporters. Hell drunk drivers and dogs hurt and kill more people everyday than snakes have in decades. I dont see them trying to ban dogs and alcohol. As others have said there are special intrest groups behind this that don't support reptile ownership at all. And I agree that if we dont stop this in it's tracks They are apt to ban them all. Knowledge is POWER.

It's not the danger. It's not that they kill people. It's the INVASIVE aspect. That is the MAIN reason why animals are banned, because if they get loose they can be a danger to the surrounding ecosystem and environment.

It's why ferrets, gerbils, etc are banned.

And I know, I know no one in their right mind would release a snake into the wild on purpose, but they can escape and there are really, really stupid people out there.

Devil's advocate over.

I don't support the ban. :P I love my snakes, but I just wanted to say this because since we're all of the same opinion on whether or not the ban should pass, it's always good to have a bit of the other side in to spark conversation.

It seems like banning them would only make the invasive problem worse because thousands of people would still have them, and I bet a lot of them would release them into the glades because they don't want to get in trouble. Maybe somebody has to move to another state and it's their only option. Absolutely not a solution to the problem.

It's not an accident when they are released into the wild. Sometimes it is, but it's mostly from people who bought them on an impulse and couldn't deal with the size.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Homegrownscales

I dont see them trying to ban dogs and alcohol.

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They tried banning alcohol already. Didn't work out so well. It's what created the American gangster. XD The image of ViperKeeper with a tommy gun is pretty amusing.

And they're working on dogs, too, one breed at a time. I saw a petition passed around my grandfather's old neighborhood to stop legislation aimed to ban pit bulls, German shepherds, dobermans, rottweilers, great danes, malamutes, huskies, mastiffs, akitas, shar-peis, chow chows, and 20-something other breeds, most of which I'd never heard any negative stories about. It's only a matter of time.

Never mind

It's definitely not an immediate solution, but my best guess (and it's definitely a guess :]) would be that they imagine after the initial mass release into the wild after the ban, that since "no one" would be acquiring the snakes anymore the threat would diminish and disappear over time. Maybe the beginning boom of potential release was worth getting rid of that potential for the future?

Just a guess. I really don't know. I just like posting other input into things. :] We're all like-minded so it's fun to throw a little disturbance in there.

Ah, yes but ask any burm or retic or boa breeder. Banning them wont stop people from acquiring as a matter of fact Ive heard many breeders say business wise they'd be better off. Look at guns or alcohol or drugs there a black market for all of them.

Yes, there was a black market, but the amount of people acquiring these things was smaller. I have a burmese python, and I wouldn't unless I had seen and experienced them in a store. I'm not saying people won't get them, I'm saying that less people would get them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Misfit

It's not the danger. It's not that they kill people. It's the INVASIVE aspect. That is the MAIN reason why animals are banned, because if they get loose they can be a danger to the surrounding ecosystem and environment.

It's why ferrets, gerbils, etc are banned.

And I know, I know no one in their right mind would release a snake into the wild on purpose, but they can escape and there are really, really stupid people out there.

Devil's advocate over.

I don't support the ban. :P I love my snakes, but I just wanted to say this because since we're all of the same opinion on whether or not the ban should pass, it's always good to have a bit of the other side in to spark conversation.

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You are wrong Misfit. The invasive fact is only another excuse. The fact is that all these campaigns are backed by a radical environmentalist group that seeks to end the ownership and trade of all non-native animals.

You are forgetting that there is still no evidence to support any snakes were released into the wild. Most came from hurricane destruction. If it really did stem from a "danger to the ecosystem" it wouldn't be national. The problem would be contained in the lower states. The problem is springing up everywhere across the US. Including cold states that could not support the life of these snakes.

They are just money hungry fools. They think if they cat get rid of everything but the furies, they will have complete control over the pet population and reap the benefits.

I agree. When Andrew hit in 92' I was there and it destroyed many stores that carried those animals. Andrew was the reason my family moved out of Homestead. Many people lost homes, pets, and stores lost the animals they supplied. This ban is backed by the special interest groups, and where there is a ban there becomes a black market. What is truely irritating to me is that anyone caught will be prosecuted for something that shouldn't be a crime and potentially placed in already overcrowded systems for the tax payers to pay for. And how is that helping the ecosystem of the Everglades again?? What needs to happen is more studies, field collection, and figuring out a solution. Why is the ban only being focused on when really banning will create a pet release issue or many beautiful animals being put to death bc the people dont want to pay for the permits. Where will the ban stop? How far will they go? Thats in general why I dont support any of it. If it was based on actual scientific fact that had been proven reproven and gone over by their peers I would take it a little more seriously. But they didn't.

If it really did stem from a "danger to the ecosystem" it wouldn't be national. The problem would be contained in the lower states. The problem is springing up everywhere across the US. Including cold states that could not support the life of these snakes.

Right like Delaware and OHIO??? WTF ya I see you guys having a snake issue anytime soon!! More than irritating to me.

I wasn't saying it was a correct thing, or that it was a valid reason. :P I think I mentioned that I didn't agree with it too. I was just adding to the ideas behind the bill because all people were talking about was how dangerous dogs are, lol.

I definitely agree with you on the invasive species deal. If it's a problem anywhere, it's only in the lower states, and they are definitely using it as an excuse to go national. If anything, it's the furries that are more dangerous invasive-ly, but most of those have already been banned.

Only in certain states though. I feel like the special intrest groups have this blown out of proportion intentially nationally. Bc they dont support herps. Just like the dogs thing which is from what I know certain counties in certain states. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I was just mentioning that They have used alot more propaganda with this trying to get the average citizen involved by talking about snake escapes, attacks, in one case death to incourage the ban by scaring them not giving actual facts.

All i can say is that in order to get this law to fail we all need to work together and donate to USARK or protest or start petitions and educate people. please do what what you can to help.:snake::salute:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by grits

They are in effect about to kill our hobby now. This new law they are trying to pass will make crossing state lines with ANY snake illegal. No shipping, no going to out of state shows , all of this would now led to felony charges.

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You know how this makes me feel? :groinkick


I find this to be something of a problem. People cross state lines all the time for gun shows. More people are killed by guns than with snakes. Granted they have specific gun laws prohibiting the purchase/sale/ownership of certain guns. But there are even loop holes in that. If there's a loop hole and this bill passes, I'll be looking for it very carefully. ;)

Excellent thread Jeremy!

Glad to see so many of us chiming in.

I kept reading that gerbils and ferrets are banned. Thinking that I know the pet stores here have them. So, they must be banned in only some states, etc. Homegrownscales clarified this already.

I also agree that we need to support USARK. If you are not a member and reading this, google USARK and check it out. USARK is our strongest ali in the battle to defend our reptile keeping rights.

Also, we need to send our friend Jackson Stone some pics of us, and others with reptiles along with a brief statement saying he can use your pic and that you support the right to keep reptiles.
Send pics to vpdproductions@gmail.com
Jackson's youtube link

http://youtu.be/LmSpGdlFbSw

Help Jackson help us!

As far as I know, ferrets are only banned in California and Hawaii. Gerbils are banned in Cali too.. but I'm not sure of where else.

Right. See if this was just a fl thing I think it would show that this is a straight up issue about the eco system. Since they are so adamant about this being national it shows that there a little more to the story.

I've been told Georgia has a ferret ban as well.

all i want to say about the invasive species thought is that this can only really be used in the case of the burms in florida and now probably through out those southern gulf states but for example if the northern states were hit with a huge storm that tore up buildings all those big breeders (Royalconstrictors, bhb, etc.) had thier buildings destroyed and snakes got out i dont think they will have a problem with ball pythons boas and burms running wild in wisconsin and michigan cuz 1. Way too cold for these species. 2. the warm blooded mammals in that area would dominate the slow cold non venomous snakes.
if these snakes were to get out in Arizona, New Mexico, Nevada, So Cal the snakes would be dried up dead before they could find shade or water
for the ppl who own rattlesnakes in the southern states and they get out thats not a big deal they are just back in their natural home and way Arizona is growing most of the rattlesnakes homes are in our backyard literally
i just realized i have been typing way too long my english teacher is giving me an evil stare just thought i would throw in my 2 cents

P.S. im moving to Ireland or Australia if this crap passes

here's a list of very famous invasive species...
First on the list are people....yeah humans, we're the most invasive species ever...
Dogs, House Cats, Rabbits, Rats, Mice, All kinds of Birds, European Cockroach, Zebra Mussels, Horses, Sheep... Now those are only some animals. When it comes to plant species, the list probably goes on for thousands
The point i'm trying to make is that after thousands of years of Human development, the species they are worried about being invasive are innocuous in comparison. People talk about this fragile ecosystem concept, but that needs to be balanced with the adage "move, adapt, or die."

There is one more flaw to the invasive species thing. It's all in the BOA CONSTRICTOR...

Boa constrictors have lived right by us for years! They have never crossed the border and joined us! Why? Too cold!! They like where they live. Boas actually can be naturally found about 100 miles south of the US! So why haven't they already taken over? :D

I know that the the cats around my neighborhood kill more in a week than a python would kill in...well, quite a while. My neighbors cat brings home dead animals every day. And that's just stuff he brought to the owners, who knows what things were killed 'for fun' that the cat got bored of/already ate?

And I love cats, don't get me wrong! But comparatively, they are a much bigger problem than the snakes.

But you know, people aren't afraid of cats! Most people anyway.