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Government Shutdown!?!?
Being a military family (and I lost my job), we don't generally have a lot to work with from month to month and now our government isn't going to pay us if they shutdown!?!? Think of all the families with children! Even if families live on post they still have to buy food and pay bills! We don't live on post, due to our snakes and dogs, so if we don't get paid neither does our rent or utilities! I'm really getting scared at this point...
Help spread the word, this is totally unconstitutional (it's gotta be in there somewhere lol), morally wrong, unfair and unjust!!!!
“Ensuring Pay for Our Military Act of 2011” Facebook Event Page
Photos from “Ensuring Pay for Our Military Act of 2011”
Some of the pictures made me want to cry.:tears:. I haven't even touched on the government employees that were FORCED to take furlough!
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I agree...my hubby is retired military and now works for the army as a civilian. If the gov. shuts down he will not have a job. He was explaining why the military will not get paid even though it is the law for them to continue to get paid. Something about yes...they will be paid however the pentagon...(who has the money) will not have any money to pay them if gov. shuts down. UGH>>>>>>>
Its a terrible situation all around and many many ppl are going to be hurting.
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Re: Government Shutdown!?!?
I am also retired military :salute: I was always proud to serve and defend my country, but, it's sad to say, I could never say the same about the government that runs it. This is just one more example of the impotence, incompetence, and ineffectiveness of politicians to perform the job that they are elected to do. They are only concerned with saving their own jobs and pushing their own special interests irregardless of how the consequences of their actions, or lack thereof, will affect the millions of people depending on them. They are not being held accountable for their conduct. In the military, such conduct is called Derelection of Duty, and is punishable, yet politicians are allowed to continue with these fiascoes of ineptitude, finger pointing, and internal blaming, while never actually finding solutions to the problems that they are elected to solve. I'm not one to go around spouting off the "cliche du jour" but this is truly an "Epic Fail" in every sense of the phrase... :2cent:
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Re: Government Shutdown!?!?
My 15th pay already reflects this. I'm only getting paid for the first week of April.
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How this really affects Military and others according to DFAS:
1. Military personnel
Although military personnel will still be required to report for duty, a government shutdown would, at least temporarily, halt or stagger scheduled payments, according to the DFAS. Once the dust has settled and an agreement is reached, active military members will be compensated for duty performed during the shutdown.
"If the government shuts down starts on the 8th and goes for a week, you’d get a half a check," Defense Secretary Robert Gates told the troops. "If it goes from the 15th to the 30th, you wouldn’t get a pay check on the 30th but you would be back paid for all of it. So that’s the deal..."
2. Civilian employees
According to the DFAS, civilians employed by the military will be compensated for days worked through April 8. Pay will resume once an agreement is reached.
3. Retired military veterans
Retired military servicemen and women are not paid through the current Continuing Resolution Act, so their compensation and benefits will not be affected should a government shutdown go into effect.
4. Government contractors
Military contractors will continue to be paid depending on terms, funding and the necessary tasks
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Re: Government Shutdown!?!?
I just found out too that my husband is only getting HALF his pay on the 15th AND this shutdown is yet to happen?!? This doesn't make since if they haven't actually shutdown yet! GRRRR!
It should have NEVER come down to this! The budget should have been decided and in affect MONTHS ago! Incompetence is an understatement at this point.
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Here's a point of view to consider (although I know it's radical): I personally don't feel I should be coerced to pay for any service I find morally abhorrent. When I ask people if one should be forced to fund something I feel is morally abhorrent, unequivocally I receive the same answer: no.
I don't see why it should be any different when choosing whether or not I want to fund the current military structure.
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Re: Government Shutdown!?!?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tache
Here's a point of view to consider (although I know it's radical): I personally don't feel I should be coerced to pay for any service I find morally abhorrent. When I ask people if one should be forced to fund something I feel is morally abhorrent, unequivocally I receive the same answer: no.
I don't see why it should be any different when choosing whether or not I want to fund the current military structure.
I don't think I agree with this. I mean, it sounds good, but what if we did have the choice of who to fund with out tax money? Do you really think enough people would support the military? I doubt. And then we're screwed.
On the other hand, how is it legal to ask someone to work without pay? I know, it's the government, but still. Won't this open a huge window for other companies?
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Re: Government Shutdown!?!?
Quote:
Originally Posted by stratus_020202
On the other hand, how is it legal to ask someone to work without pay? I know, it's the government, but still. Won't this open a huge window for other companies?
See what I posted. No one will really be working without pay. Anyone who is working will get back pay after the budget is done. You will only not get paid if you are not asked to work.
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Re: Government Shutdown!?!?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasonC2K
See what I posted. No one will really be working without pay. Anyone who is working will get back pay after the budget is done. You will only not get paid if you are not asked to work.
Still not right. "you will be paid, but later" It's still going to create a huge problem. And, how do you know when an agreement will be reached? Bad, bad. Do they have a time frame where they have to be done?
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Re: Government Shutdown!?!?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tache
Here's a point of view to consider (although I know it's radical): I personally don't feel I should be coerced to pay for any service I find morally abhorrent. When I ask people if one should be forced to fund something I feel is morally abhorrent, unequivocally I receive the same answer: no.
I don't see why it should be any different when choosing whether or not I want to fund the current military structure.
It all rolls down hill. Vote for the right people who wont make morally abhorrent decisions, don't blame it on the military structure! Soldiers are good HARD working people and shouldn't have to suffer at the ineptitude of our POLITICAL structure. The DoD does NOT delegate tax payers $$$, Congress does and Congress and the President also make the decisions as to what actions the military take in the end.
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Re: Government Shutdown!?!?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tache
Here's a point of view to consider (although I know it's radical): I personally don't feel I should be coerced to pay for any service I find morally abhorrent. When I ask people if one should be forced to fund something I feel is morally abhorrent, unequivocally I receive the same answer: no.
Are you referring to Planned Parenthood or the military?
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Re: Government Shutdown!?!?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasonC2K
See what I posted. No one will really be working without pay. Anyone who is working will get back pay after the budget is done. You will only not get paid if you are not asked to work.
Thats all fine and dandy but I'll still be screwed! I'll just tell my utilities company, phone company, internet/tv company, that they will get their money when the budget is done. That doesn't work in the real world!! Oh and I'll also tell my dogs they can eat when the budget is done and I can put gas in my car when the budget is done....
Not to mention ALL the late fees for past due bills...are they going to reimburse me for that?!.......Its all GARBAGE! I really hope they figure this out and I'm freaking out for nothing :mad::(.
Sorry, not ranting at you, this whole thing just sucks :(.
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Re: Government Shutdown!?!?
The saddest part of this whole travesty is that they are arguing over what amounts to 1/10th of 1% of the budget. Neither side wants to make concessions to spending cuts to their individual interests.
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Re: Government Shutdown!?!?
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Originally Posted by jsmorphs2
Thats all fine and dandy but I'll still be screwed! I'll just tell my utilities company, phone company, internet/tv company, that they will get their money when the budget is done. That doesn't work in the real world!! Oh and I'll also tell my dogs they can eat when the budget is done and I can put gas in my car when the budget is done....
Not to mention ALL the late fees for past due bills...are they going to reimburse me for that?!.......Its all GARBAGE! I really hope they figure this out and I'm freaking out for nothing :mad::(.
Sorry, not ranting at you, this whole thing just sucks :(.
I really hope it works out for you. :hug:
It's amazing how the most important people, are the ones that suffer the most.
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Re: Government Shutdown!?!?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsmorphs2
Thats all fine and dandy but I'll still be screwed! I'll just tell my utilities company, phone company, internet/tv company, that they will get their money when the budget is done. That doesn't work in the real world!! Oh and I'll also tell my dogs they can eat when the budget is done and I can put gas in my car when the budget is done....
Not to mention ALL the late fees for past due bills...are they going to reimburse me for that?!.......Its all GARBAGE! I really hope they figure this out and I'm freaking out for nothing :mad::(.
Sorry, not ranting at you, this whole thing just sucks :(.
It's ok. I was just trying to point out what little silver lining there is. So at least you will get the money at some point where as some others won't get any at all.
Also, unless you have really bad credit, most companies you can call and tell them and they'll give you the time you need to pay it given the circumstances.
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Re: Government Shutdown!?!?
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Re: Government Shutdown!?!?
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Originally Posted by stratus_020202
but what if we did have the choice of who to fund with out tax money?
If we could find away to do it, that would be awesome.
What if everyone were taxed by bracket based on income and were allowed to specify where their personal tax dollars go? If you only wanted taxes to go to one program, your full years taxes would go there. If you wanted to support 50 programs each would get 1/50th of you annual contribution, etc. If someone refused to pick any it could by default be split up among everything [I don't see how someone could be unable to find one program they are ok with; I bet even the unibomber could find something] Or maybe it could only give people the option to pick programs they do not want to contribute to so no good causes get overlooked on account of poor visibility/publicity.
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About half way down the article mentions Republicans passed a temporary budget to ensure troops are paid through September. I'm not holding my breath...
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/gover...3321179&page=1
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Re: Government Shutdown!?!?
Quote:
Originally Posted by stratus_020202
Still not right. "you will be paid, but later" It's still going to create a huge problem. ...
This isn't the first time this has happened. It didn't cause any serious ripple effects in the civilian businesses. (ie: Civilian businesses didn't suddenly go, "Hey, if the government doesn't have to pay their employees, then neither do we!")
I do find it quite abhorrent that members of congress will play "Chicken" with the lives of millions of hard-working and life-sacrificing Americans sitting in the middle of the road between their two trains ready to wreck.
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it all screwed up i agree , but i bet you the congress men/women will still get paid even if the goverment closed. I personally think that the congress person's pay should be adjusted based on the national avg income for about min wage and made to struggle like the rest of us. why is it they asked to be voted to a postion and then get the better pay than joe blow out here working and then get everything they want/need in kickbacks and donations from companies .. shoot i only want enough to get by aka own my own place(instead of struggling at home) and to keep my bills paid on time. it not like i want trips on ptivate plane, or trips everywere claiming it work related, golf fancy dinners, big vacations are not work that spoiled living.
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Hey guys, wanted to give everyone a heads up it looks like the government shutdown has been avoided. http://content.usatoday.com/communit...nt-shutdown-/1
I just checked to see if my pay on the 15th would still be affected, this is what I got:
Quote:
Due to DFAS system maintenance or high volume, your Account Statement is currently unavailable. We apologize for the inconvenience
Guess I'll try tomorrow.
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Re: Government Shutdown!?!?
Quote:
Originally Posted by stratus_020202
I don't think I agree with this. I mean, it sounds good, but what if we did have the choice of who to fund with out tax money? Do you really think enough people would support the military? I doubt. And then we're screwed.
On the other hand, how is it legal to ask someone to work without pay? I know, it's the government, but still. Won't this open a huge window for other companies?
Yo, what's up Stratus?
You definitely bring up a good point. Many people voice the same concerns about those that might not choose fund the military if given the choice.
The first thing that comes to my mind when I read your comment is "Suppose an individual does not wish to fund the military: Is it then OK to use coercion or violence (if it comes to that) to make them pay?" My second point is this: Had I choice to decide how to spend my own money, in the first place - politicians would have been unable to use it instigate, provoke, or otherwise facilitate animosity between or among other societies. Thus greatly reducing the risk of sudden attack from the get go.
But as to asking others to work for free - I would never! :) I value the freedom that I do have and I understand that defense and a sense of protection is needed. However, it seems the government constantly commits atrocities. Also, it seems, to me, that the government is highly inefficient. If other companies were able to provide better defensive services - I would gladly pay for them.
Of course, at least with today's societal structure, this is all theoretical simply because the government doesn't allow for competition or individual choice in these matters. So, it's an inherently difficult position to defend considering the modern political paradigm.
Just my thoughts, let me know what you think.
Lucas
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Re: Government Shutdown!?!?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MasonC2K
Also, unless you have really bad credit, most companies you can call and tell them and they'll give you the time you need to pay it given the circumstances.
Wife and I stopped by the bank that holds our mortgage yesterday and asked about the shutdown and what we can do if we don't get paid (I'm military) and they basically said tough cookies...hopefully Congress can get it's *%(& together...but really...what do they care? They would still get paid. :rolleye2:
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Re: Government Shutdown!?!?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tache
Also, it seems, to me, that the government is highly inefficient. Lucas
Just curious what experience you have working with the average Joe government employee...I work alongside them everyday...please don't lump the average GS-4,5,6, 12 etc in with Congressman and Senators...
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Re: Government Shutdown!?!?
Quote:
Originally Posted by stratus_020202
I don't think I agree with this. I mean, it sounds good, but what if we did have the choice of who to fund with out tax money? Do you really think enough people would support the military? I doubt. And then we're screwed.
On the other hand, how is it legal to ask someone to work without pay? I know, it's the government, but still. Won't this open a huge window for other companies?
Agreed. and no one would ever want to pay for things like this and Police service until they were being burglarized or their country was being invaded. Until recently this past February when I quit my job to become a stay at home mom I worked as an accountant for the local city. I saw the budget process, and where the money was spent etc. Luckily the city I worked for was responsible and was prepared when the economy crashed but it surprised me how many local governments were not and was working on a large debt already. :O
I see absolutely no reason that they couldn't have budgeted better to be prepared for this situation. Instead of cut backs like they should have been doing they were paying people to get new cars! (Cash for Clunkers) Seriously?! Now that I would have been like to decide not to fund!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sho220
Just curious what experience you have working with the average Joe government employee...I work alongside them everyday...please don't lump the average GS-4,5,6, 12 etc in with Congressman and Senators...
Ha, I'd say Congressman and Senators are highly efficient at achieving their goals! :) Increasing their pay and increasing the size of the government, thus securing their jobs and influence.
When I say the government is inefficient I mean it in the broadest possible sense. It seems reasonable to assume that the stated goal of the war on drugs is something akin to creating a "drug-free" America. In reality, all empirical data suggest that current policies only increase the profit drug producers can make, so it increases their incentives to get others addicted. This is only one example, but evidence as to how bad these policies are is so widely available. Perhaps there are services that the government does perform effectively. But whether or not that is true is a separate question. I am asking: Is the use of coercion or violence, against me, justified should I happen to object to these "services"?
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Re: Government Shutdown!?!?
You youngsters need to realize that this is just a game that politicians play when they have not done their job of approving a budget, which in this case should have been done a year ago.
This is not the first time that they claimed that "the Government may shut down" and it will not be the last time that you hear this in your young lives.
The sky is not falling.
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Re: Government Shutdown!?!?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsirkle
You youngsters need to realize that this is just a game that politicians play when they have not done their job of approving a budget, which in this case should have been done a year ago.
This is not the first time that they claimed that "the Government may shut down" and it will not be the last time that you hear this in your young lives.
The sky is not falling.
Ageist much? You know, ageism is only a small step or two away from racism.
Age has nothing to do with this. Yes, its happened before, yes it'll happen again. But that doesn't mean that it shouldn't concern those directly affected by a government shutdown, nevermind those who aren't.
It may appear as a game to some, but when it comes to affecting people's lives' it is no longer a game.
Don't look down on those who are concerned and who want to see changes made to correct the problems in government. If there is anyone who is to be looked down on, it is those who see the problem, understand the problem, and simply write it off as "the way things are".
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Re: Government Shutdown!?!?
Er...... what? :confused:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Reptiles
Ageist much? You know, ageism is only a small step or two away from racism.
Do you have the vaguest idea how idiotic that statement was?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Reptiles
Age has nothing to do with this. Yes, its happened before, yes it'll happen again. But that doesn't mean that it shouldn't concern those directly affected by a government shutdown, nevermind those who aren't.
It may appear as a game to some, but when it comes to affecting people's lives' it is no longer a game.
Don't look down on those who are concerned and who want to see changes made to correct the problems in government. If there is anyone who is to be looked down on, it is those who see the problem, understand the problem, and simply write it off as "the way things are".
Age, in this context, equals a greater timeframe in which to have aquired direct experience and wisdom. Which allows a better judgement to be made about the actual threat level in this latest example.
I think your interpretation of this as "looking down on" is inaccurate and far from the intention of the quoted post.
I cannot comment on your political structure as, especially as in regards to situations like this one, it is radically different to the one in my country where something like this would simply not be tolerated even if it were actually possible.
I would say, if you want to prevent those involved thinking this is a legitimate game, vote for a different type of person.
dr del
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To me it's just one more example of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer.
And as to the whole "vote the right people in and this won't happen" thing, that is just ridiculous. No one individual in the government hierarchy has the power or authority to make a difference. Not even the President. I don't care how noble the intentions or how much their heart is in the right place, the bureaucratic process means they can't do diddly.
Every concept or idea or plan has to be approved by so many other people, and make it through so much red tape, trying to change things is futile at best. Even if you elected say a congressman who really wanted to change things. The odds of that one person being able to convince all the other members of congress to go along with his or her plan, as well as getting everyone else who has a say in the matter to agree are infinitesimal at best.
So, despite campaign promises and good intentions, the odds of the government ever waking up and doing the right thing are about as good as winning four different state lotteries in the same day with the same numbers. Greed and corruption will always win, and the rest of us just have to deal with it as best we can.
Gale
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Re: Government Shutdown!?!?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr del
Do you have the vaguest idea how idiotic that statement was?
Yes, actually. It was intended to be. It was meant to echo the tone of the post in reference. The opinion in the post could have been made just as effectively without the condescending undertones.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr del
I think your interpretation of this as "looking down on" is inaccurate and far from the intention of the quoted post.
I understand and respect your interpretation, though I do not necessarily entirely agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr del
I cannot comment on your political structure as, especially as in regards to situations like this one, it is radically different to the one in my country where something like this would simply not be tolerated even if it were actually possible.
I would say, if you want to prevent those involved thinking this is a legitimate game, vote for a different type of person.
Agree 100%, and this was basically my overall point. I think it is good that people are upset about how this was handled and there is some degree of dissatisfaction. Hopefully people remember that going forward and we push for changes that will reduce the chances of events of this nature in the future.
I would like to think that the country that I live in is one that a situation like this, as you said, "would simply not be tolerated" as well, even if that is not the case today.
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Re: Government Shutdown!?!?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dr del
I would say, if you want to prevent those involved thinking this is a legitimate game, vote for a different type of person.
dr del
I'm glad I'm not the only one with this view. In my opinion, we need a new government, and the solution is simple. In 2012, which is the next election year, just vote all of the incumbents out of office and replace them. Then, in 2014, when the mid-term elections come up, vote all of the remaining incumbents out of office. At that point, there will be all new people in Washington. If they don't get the message that the American people won't tolerate such sub-standard performance and conduct, then vote them out as well. Sooner or later we will end up with some politicians in office who "get it."
Seriously, if any one of us went to work and demonstrated the same performance standards that the government does, we would be fired. Maybe Donald Trump should run for President. For his first State of the Union address, he could walk into Congress and say,"YOU'RE FIIIIIRED." :gj:
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Re: Government Shutdown!?!?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoshBalls
Agreed. and no one would ever want to pay for things like this and Police service until they were being burglarized or their country was being invaded.
Even if their selections had no baring on how much they had to pay in taxes?
I could understand there would be problems if people had the option of paying less by selecting less but if the taxes due are unaffected it shouldn't cause a massive change for mainstream programs. You're paying the same regardless what you consent to.
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Re: Government Shutdown!?!?
What's the big deal? They only do about 30 minutes worth of work a day anyway.;):D
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Re: Government Shutdown!?!?
Just imagine if Americans as a whole, did what the government is doing. If we shut down, just imagine how much we could accomplish. Stop buying gas, stop working, etc. All the people living the high life from our funds would be screwed. That is the main issue in my opinion though. It is no longer we the people but more self I the people. Everyone seems to be out for what is best for themselves instead of the whole of a people. Once we get to that point, what is the point, when government no longer cares about the people.
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Re: Government Shutdown!?!?
Quote:
Originally Posted by angllady2
To me it's just one more example of the rich getting richer and the poor getting poorer.
And as to the whole "vote the right people in and this won't happen" thing, that is just ridiculous. No one individual in the government hierarchy has the power or authority to make a difference. Not even the President. I don't care how noble the intentions or how much their heart is in the right place, the bureaucratic process means they can't do diddly.
Every concept or idea or plan has to be approved by so many other people, and make it through so much red tape, trying to change things is futile at best. Even if you elected say a congressman who really wanted to change things. The odds of that one person being able to convince all the other members of congress to go along with his or her plan, as well as getting everyone else who has a say in the matter to agree are infinitesimal at best.
So, despite campaign promises and good intentions, the odds of the government ever waking up and doing the right thing are about as good as winning four different state lotteries in the same day with the same numbers. Greed and corruption will always win, and the rest of us just have to deal with it as best we can.
Gale
It was the very realization that "absolute power corrupts absolutely" that led the founding fathers to create a system giving the Senate, the House, the Judiciary and the President separate and often opposing powers as they saw the unbridled power of a King as the greatest danger of Governmental authority.
They also wrote the Constitution and added the Bill of Rights to guarantee rights to the individual citizen. The people at that time were desirous of freedom from Governmental oppression and interference in their daily lives. They had not even conceived the idea of perpetually remaining children and expecting to receive cradle to grave support.
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Re: Government Shutdown!?!?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twisted Reptiles
I think it is good that people are upset about how this was handled and there is some degree of dissatisfaction. Hopefully people remember that going forward and we push for changes that will reduce the chances of events of this nature in the future.
I would like to think that the country that I live in is one that a situation like this, as you said, "would simply not be tolerated" as well, even if that is not the case today.
And then there are the people like me that believe that we are responsible for and make our own circumstances rather than viewing ourselves as merely being at the mercy of what other people that we only see on TV are doing.
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In case any other military members (or families of) on here didn't get the word about our pay on the upcoming 15th it will be the full, normal 2 week amount.
Quote:
DFAS will pay the military in full at the next regular payday - Friday
April 15. But there will be two bank deposits for each member. I want to
explain why we are doing this and our plan to inform the troops.
The normal day to begin the military pay run was last Thursday, April 7.
Facing a shutdown and possible furloughs, DFAS ran the payday for the
period April 1 to 8. Interim leave and earning statements (LES) were generated for this period.
We will run a second, semi-manual pay for the period April 9 through
April 15. Both deposits will go into member accounts on April 15. This
semi-manual run will not automatically revise the LES and, despite some
weekend efforts to do so, it didn't prove feasible. So the mid-month,
interim LES will only show pay for April 1 to 8. The month-end LES will
be complete for the entire month.
Any time you do something new, there is risk. DFAS does statistical
sampling of pay records to check for accuracy. We will pay particular
attention to that process this week.
More info is available here: http://www.dfas.mil/
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