Flatline?!?!

So I was looking through World of Ball Pythons and came across the Champagne Pastel Calico.... Add Clown whick makes pastel yellower (is it a word?? lol) and I think we would be close.

What do you guys think? Champagne Pastel Clown Calico???

hint: look at spider clowns.

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

hint: look at spider clowns.

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oooh ... I still think calico pastel champagne has something to do with the colour :gj:

So Pastel Calico Champagne Clown Spider ---- maybe??

Desert clown has nearly the correct pattern, I don't care what you say :P

Just need to add pastel or something for the yellow.

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I would agree that there is desert and clown in the flatline. Enchi could be the missing ingredient. I don't think spider clown has anything to do with it. Only Ralph knows for sure.

http://i338.photobucket.com/albums/n...ythons/049.jpg

for some reason I have convinced myself that it is just a super enchi clown. When disecting Ralph's previous years, I noted the fact that he had hatched out both a male and a female enchi het clown. I feel like the enchi would reduce the pattern and so super enchi could potentially give the pattern and the color. Who knows... maybe he just got lucky and the pattern just happened to work out to be super reduced and there will never be another one turn out like that... thats why ball python breeding "is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you gunna get."

Also I agree with Dave that I dun think I see spider. The clown gene can be super reduced without any additions so spider seem irrelevant to me.... man I can't wait for 2016 so that Ralph might be willing to spill the beans....

can you guys not see where i am coming from with the colour?? i swear i can even see a flick of white just like the pastel calico champagne!
also he said he has 3 of them so unless they all lucked out with reduced patterns the something is reducing the clown

when did ralph say he had three of them?

I have looked through Ralphs records and he has one clutch where he bred a clown to something new from africa but didn't show what it was. I believe that this year he finally bred this new morph back to a clown female and the flatline is the product

If you check out this link, you will see the desert clown, Spitzu is right,the pattern looks like a dead ringer for the flatline. Whatever the missing ingredient/ingredients, it's a SMOKIN combo!:gj:

http://blog.hudsonvalleyherps.com/Ho...wna-first.aspx

i can't remember where, i think it was on his facebook but can't be sure. i cant see desert in there unless its super form looks that crazy

I honestly think its desert calico spider clown. the calider looks very similar. :confused:

I say pastel desert clown..

I'd kill to see that snake in person.

ok so here is a pic of the champagne pastel calico...
http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/r...ho18/snake.jpg

I think if we replaced the pastel with desert and added clown we would have the flatline. Desert 'should' make the yellow colour more intense and would not give the faded head that a pastel would and the clown would finish off the pattern :cool:

What do you guys think? Calico champagne the missing ingredients?

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Originally Posted by Mattinho

ok so here is a pic of the champagne pastel calico...
http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/r...ho18/snake.jpg

I think if we replaced the pastel with desert and added clown we would have the flatline. Desert 'should' make the yellow colour more intense and would not give the faded head that a pastel would and the clown would finish off the pattern :cool:

What do you guys think? Calico champagne the missing ingredients?

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I don't think champagne is in the mix although that picture does have the intense yellowing. but champagnes have to much of an apparent dark head blush even when mixed. the flatline has no darkening on its head.

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Originally Posted by pinkeye714

I honestly think its desert calico spider clown. the calider looks very similar. :confused:

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like i said and someone else i think, a clown spider has almost perfect pattern

http://www.captivebredreptileforums....ider-clown.jpg

plus a Calider from ralph has a nice yellow blush around its marking
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8uHowdxvsE

add desert and desert enhances very clean yellows.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2649/...23e20dd5d3.jpg

:confused:
i wish i knew exactly. i would not make it, just wish i had the money to own such a beauty for a lovely display :please:

Just to let you know, that 1st pic is my spider clown fresh from the egg. I really think the desert clown has the exact same dorsal pattern as Ralph's Flatline. The color is the only difference in my opinion between them. My spider clown's pattern is different. And I don't honestly believe the spider gene is responsible for the color of the Flatline. Nerd's website has a picture on the homepage in the lower right corner of 2010 BP thumbnails. Those are from his spider clown project. They have the head pattern like mine but a very different body pattern.

So many possibilities! Let's try a side-by-side comparison :P

1. Desert Clown
2. Clown Spider
3. Champagne Pastel Calico

I still think Desert Clown fits the basic pattern... but that champagne pastel coloration is almost a match. Has there been a desert champagne yet? I'm wondering if desert maybe gets rid of the head blushing. Desert Clown Champagne? Desert Clown Champagne Pastel?


http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i1...comparison.jpg

I was looking at Ralph's breeding records before and re-found these clutches. Not sure if they have anything to do with his Flatline project but maybe. I was also thinking, what if its just a Firefly Clown?

Clutch #84 2010
http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/bi.../pythons_9.asp

Clutch #1 2004
http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/bi...pythons_04.asp


He must chuckle to himself if/when he reads these posts :).
Mom from Clutch #84 2010 as a hatchling (bottom right). Looks Fire/Vanilla-ish to me.http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/co...04clutch_1.jpg


Or I found this too. Maybe he hit on an Enchi Lesser Clown and just didn't say :P.

Clutch #122 2010
http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/bi...pythons_13.asp

Or a Pastel Goblin Clown?

ever since i first saw 'that' video - my immediate reaction was:

spider - clown - enchi/super enchi



jmho

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Originally Posted by Mattinho

i can't remember where, i think it was on his facebook but can't be sure. i cant see desert in there unless its super form looks that crazy

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Then you must not have looked at the desert clown pics. It is the same dorsal pattern as the flatline. The head pattern of the flatline is the same speckled pattern that pastel clowns have. Pastel desert clown is my guess, but I can see the argument for enchi as well. I don't see any calico or champagne in there.

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Originally Posted by jsmorphs2

I was looking at Ralph's breeding records before and re-found these clutches. Not sure if they have anything to do with his Flatline project but maybe. I was also thinking, what if its just a Firefly Clown?

Clutch #84 2010
http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/bi.../pythons_9.asp

Clutch #1 2004
http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/bi...pythons_04.asp


He must chuckle to himself if/when he reads these posts :).
Mom from Clutch #84 2010 as a hatchling (bottom right). Looks Fire/Vanilla-ish to me.http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/co...04clutch_1.jpg


Or I found this too. Maybe he hit on an Enchi Lesser Clown and just didn't say :P.

Clutch #122 2010
http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/bi...pythons_13.asp

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I think you're on the right track:gj:

Look at clutch 58 in 2007 that will give you an idea of what is in the flatline... Only part of it but I am willing to bet the rest is clown.

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Originally Posted by tattlife2001

Look at clutch 58 in 2007 that will give you an idea of what is in the flatline... Only part of it but I am willing to bet the rest is clown.

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Wow that spider is awesome! Reminds me of Ozzy's Orange Dream Spiders. Maybe his female is another line of ODs? Bet you're right, that mixed with Clown would be gorgeous.

:rolleye2: I'm losing my mind going through his birthing records LOL all I know is the flatline is from clutch 24 of 2010 :hmm: Unless Ralph has rearranged the tubs to through everyone off :rofl: I give up.

http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/bi.../pythons_3.asp

As with most of you, I've been thinking about this for quite some time. I've done some research trying to figure it out and think I might be on to something, but its just a hunch. I looked up Pro Exotics page and found a tiger pastel(desert enchi pastel).

http://www.proexotics.com/pics_oct_7...er_pastel1.jpg

Now, that's obviously not it, but I also found a super enchi spider lemon pastel on Snakepreview.com that looks a lot like it, too.

http://www.snakepreview.com/wordpres...dpress/?p=1773

Once again, not it, but I believe that the Flatline might be a super enchi desert pastel clown. :)

mmm how bout mix a desert clown with the pastel shatter from clutch 99 - 2007?

http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/bi...pythons_10.asp

You guys are doing great detective work here. Big Gunns is impressed.....and that's not easy to do. Keep it up.:gj:

ameh78 there is no shatter in it if there was then you would see the shatter pattern distortion in flatline.

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Originally Posted by aaronsmo13

Now, that's obviously not it, but I also found a super enchi spider lemon pastel

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This minus the spider I think. But looking at it more, it could have spider...

super enchi spider lemon pastel clown or super enchi lemon pastel clown.

Think simpler.

To make a pastel super enchi spider clown, RD would have had to pair up two snakes that were both enchi and both a minimum of het clown, plus one of them with pastel and one with spider. This just doesn't fit the time frame. The odds of hitting a super enchi pastel spider clown with both parents only het clown are 1/64. Take out the spider and you have 1/32 odds. The only way to get the odds to a realistic level is to make one parent a visual enchi clown. Don't you think RD would have wanted to show off his enchi clown before he bred it and produced the next level?

Think simpler:

Enchi clown: male enchi het clown x clown or het clown

enchi pastel clown: male enchi het clown x pastel clown or pastel het clown

desert pastel clown: male desert clown or desert het clown x female pastel clown or pastel het clown.

All the above males are available or can be produced and up to breeding size in a year. The females have all been around long enough to be breedable. They also have somewhat realistic odds, especially if you use a visual clown. RD would have good reason to keep the ingredients a secret.

You just dont get a super codom, recessive(basically another super), plus two other dom/codom genes into a snake without seeing the steps leading up to it.

Unless of course RD kept a male enchi clown a secret while he raised up a female enchi het clown to breeding size.

Maybe it's a Super Banana Bird Eater:O

So nerd posted a video with the Asystole. Any final word on the Flatline?

His banana bird eater looks very similar to an orange dream. Orange dream x spider would give the color then just add a nice reduced pattern clown. It may or may not even have spider, maybe the new gene does something similar with the color with clown as the od does with the spider gene since clown usually makes things a bit brighter. Maybe it has some yellow belly in there too. The orange dreams seem to come out with a nice banded pattern maybe that cleaned up the clown pattern to like spider or enchi can. I have a ch boy that looks very similar to an od so I plan on testing my theory lol.

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Originally Posted by TheReptileEnthusiast

Then you must not have looked at the desert clown pics. It is the same dorsal pattern as the flatline. The head pattern of the flatline is the same speckled pattern that pastel clowns have. Pastel desert clown is my guess, but I can see the argument for enchi as well. I don't see any calico or champagne in there.

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couldn't have worded this more perfectly myself.
Lots of morphs could yellow it up, and I dont see any champ or calico in the flatline AT ALL. The champagne has a crazy pattern and often the line isn't filled in such as in the example that was posted. The dark line on the flatline lookS EXACTLY like a darker version of that desert clown, same pattern.

I'm guessing its a desert clown something something....

I'm thinking it's a super orange dream spider something, but that's just a guess. We probably won't know for years.:rolleyes:

I think it is just a Bumble Bee Clown. Here is another one that was produced.

http://www.precisionreptiles.com/for...own_group2.jpg[/QUOTE]

This is not my snake but looks pretty much like the flatline.

looks like bumblee clown, the difference was the color, I think it luck of pastel, or i think its a ....super enchi bumble bee clown.... just a wild guess
let me justify:
color : superenchi and pastel
body and head pattern: clown and spider
:bow::bow::bow:

Fire pastel super enchi clown. Thats my guess.

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Originally Posted by JoeEllisReptiles

I think it is just a Bumble Bee Clown. Here is another one that was produced.

http://www.precisionreptiles.com/for...own_group2.jpg

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This is not my snake but looks pretty much like the flatline.[/QUOTE]

Wow that is SWEET

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Originally Posted by spitzu

So many possibilities! Let's try a side-by-side comparison :P

1. Desert Clown
2. Clown Spider
3. Champagne Pastel Calico

I still think Desert Clown fits the basic pattern... but that champagne pastel coloration is almost a match. Has there been a desert champagne yet? I'm wondering if desert maybe gets rid of the head blushing. Desert Clown Champagne? Desert Clown Champagne Pastel?


http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i1...comparison.jpg

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This is a great comparison imo I think it is a desert clown champagne calico (not sure on the pastel) because the head, neck and stripe pattern is almost identicle with the dessert clown. I think the neck and head pattern with the spider clown doesn't match up.

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i still don't see calico anywhere in the flatline... don't know where you guys are seeing it.

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Originally Posted by Jessica Loesch

i still don't see calico anywhere in the flatline... don't know where you guys are seeing it.

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I agree. Calico would add more white I imagine....

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If you look look at the pastel champagne calico and compare it to the flatline you will see the similarities
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Guys, look up the meaning of Asystole.

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Originally Posted by Wexotics

If you look look at the pastel champagne calico and compare it to the flatline you will see the similarities
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The coloring is similar sure, but its highly doubtful it's due to the calico gene, and I still don't think calico has anything to do with it.

Not seeing calico either. The pattern on the back reminds me of a desert spider someone posted pics of in a thread a while back, with the sort of "glowing spots" in the middle. I'll have to go find that...