Taking BP out and about?

Hello everyone,
Just curious if anyone has done something like this before, or has input about it. I know people bring snakes to schools and what not so they are out of their enclosures for a period of time and they seem to be fine. I am just curious if it would be fine to take mine out for a while and take him to a car show in town this summer. I set up a rubber maid container that has a rectangle shape cut out of the top for ventilation/sunlight to get in and covered it with mesh that people use for screen doors. I'll fill it with the same substrate I use in his tank and put a water dish in there too. Should he be fine in there when I'm not walking around with him/holding him? I wouldn't let people just come up and touch him cause I don't wanna stress him a ton. Please let me know. Thanks!

http://i51.tinypic.com/8x66mf.jpg

Hi,

To be honest I wouldn't.

Not just because it is taking the snake out of a properly controlled environment for an extended time for no reason but because the people at the car show cannot reasonably be expected to have prepared for encountering a snake.

What if somone is phobic?

What if the snake escapes or gets stolen?

There are just too many opportunities for it to go wrong and end up as seriously bad publicity for not only yourself but for the hobby in general.

You can do handling and encounter sessions but it needs a lot of pre-planning and approval etc.

If you are talking about having a booth offering that then talking to the car show organisers about what they would need would be the best start then discussing it with other people who run enounter sessions about the practicalities would be your best plan.

If you are going simply as a member of the public then it is all risk and no reward for the entire hobby.

Just my £0.0124568 ( adjusted for exchange rate :P )


dr del

Hello,

I feel like I should step in here for a moment. Being a new member I don't want to offend anyone but...

I personally would not take my snake out and about. Not because I worry about inducing some mass hysteria, or because it might get stolen. The reason for me is I feel its unnecessary and can only see the snake suffering at least to some extent.

But lets think about this. Is it possible that a snake which is being handled by a responsible owner may upset some people? Sure it is! Is that a good reason not to take a snake out and about? Absolutely not!

This is like suggesting that if I take my (imaginative) pit bull for a walk, it may cause a large amount of hysteria amongst the populace. Its possible that one or two people may be upset with me walking it in public, but unlikely that anyone would completely flip out. If someone has a phobia of snakes and they see you with one they will almost always just walk the other way and recall for some time "the man at the car show with a MONSTER/KILLER snake."

The entire reason behind why I got into snakes is because when I was 13ish a neighbor of ours had his BP outside and he was taking pics of it. I of course acted like many people who are ignorant of those who keep snakes and thought what a "nasty" creature it was! At least thats what I said until he offered to let me touch it. Touching turned into petting, petting in turn became holding, and before I knew it I HAD to have a snake for a pet.

What I am getting at here is that although you may upset some people by bringing the snake with you, its unlikely that you will make someone who already dislikes snakes, dislike them even more. Most people in these situations already have their minds made up! Its more likely that you will be presented with many, many, many opportunities to educate the public. Who knows, there may even be some that you convince into wanting one of their own!

Just keep in mind (as I am sure you will) the snakes well being if you do decide to take it along with you.

Just my two cents, and once again no offense intended to anyone.

Sorry for the long post,
BigByrd47119

If you decide to do it, keep the tub out of the sun light...

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

Just my £0.0124568 ( adjusted for exchange rate :P )


dr del

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:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

:gj:

i forgot to mention only 1/3 of the tub has the screen for air/sun so most of it is shaded/dark. i def. would keep it out of the sun when the snake is in it...its not that far from home (maybe 5 or 6 min drive) if i want to take him just for a few hours or so then bring him home.

just thought id show oliver hanging out...
[IMG]http://img1.imagehousing.com/62/b225...69a30c8b90.jpg[/IMG]

I take mine out and about all the time. I have had many people stop me and talk to me, I have also had people that hated snakes come up and question me and some even change their attitude a little, I had one lady that was terrified at first work up the nerve to hold her. I try not to take her out in extreme weather. I also usually keep her outings very short, no more than 5 hours usually less. I try to bring her a cage setup so if she starts getting nervous she can go feel safe, but honestly she appears to enjoy getting out. She is constantly watching and flicking her tongue and very eager to go to people when they come up. She either wraps around my neck or if I have a baggy pockets or a backpack she will get part way in and look out.

In the Summer in Seattle we have a street fair and a few people bring their snakes. I take my snake out in my back yard sometimes to slither in the grass and I've walked around with him before. It's good as long as your snake isn't out for too long and the place isn't overly crowded. My friend takes his snake everywhere with him and he seems to do fine and isn't stressed out by it. However, all snakes are different. :)

I've taken Ramses to the last day of school and on several mall trips. However, I only do this when I know it will be warm enough and I keep him away from most people so as to avoid causing an uproar. I have been kicked out of Forever 21, though. I personally find it hilarious.

To Be Honest, I don't see the problem in taking your snake out with you, but on the other hand, you have to bear in mind how long your expecting to be out and how many people are going to be there? Because from my personal experiences not a whole lot of people are used to seeing snakes every single day and to some people it can be quite startling, I'm not saying you shouldn't take your snake out, but you'd be better off taking your snake somewhere that's going to have a lot less 'going on' as such and a lot less to worry/scare the little fella.

Hope you bear it in mind, thanks. :D

I've taken my ball pythons to my classes on several occasions (I'm a teacher). In fact, I just took my Sulfur Mojave yesterday. On all occasions they've tolerated handling very well, and on the few occasions that I've offered them rats in front of everyone, they ended up eating them... and this was after being held, screamed, and gawked at by 140 teenagers at the end of the day.

A public event like a car show however is completely different from a controlled classroom environment. All of my students know how much I love snakes and animals, and know the value of my ball pythons, and treat them with much respect. If you do plan on taking your snake with you, be selective on who touches/holds it, and bring some hand sanitizer... you can never be too cautious.

Mark

Snakes have middle and inner ears but not outer ears, correct? So they can't hear a crowd but something like loud music with heavy bass might stress them out. I'm not sure if Carlotta would like it. She is timid. Sir Hiss, however, would probably tolerate it.

If you knew how badly there are people out there in high places that want to legislate to take away our rights to even KEEP these animals, you'd probably think twice, even three times (hopefully more) before you take your snake and display it in public.

If you're relatively new to keeping these magnificent animals, I recommend a journey up to the Laws & Legislation forums and get yourself familiar with what's going on, and the climate of the political aspect of this.

First, I don't see a reason to give anyone un-necessary ammunition against us. Are the chances that you'll encounter someone who has an unreasonable fear of these animals high? I don't know. I do think it's likely, and all it takes is that person to make a complaint and then a letter to the editor, then a local interest story on the news. And then, because it's about snakes, it will likely spread. At the very least, HSUS and their team will have people looking just for local tidbits like this for their battle against our right to keep them as pets as an illustration of us as crazy and irresponsible owners. It doesn't matter that it's not necessarily irresponsible under normal cirucumstances, but it is in this political climate. But there are enough people in the general populace that are fearful of snakes or hate snakes, that a story like that and the push to pass laws to prevent it happening again would only gain those people's support.

Secondly, there's not ONE single benefit that your snake will get out of the experience. Not a single one. You put your snake in a stressful situation. And since they are so adept at hiding illnesses when they are sick or stressed, just as a survival instinct, you don't have any idea just how stressful it is to them to be not at optimal temperature for extended periods of time, not be able to sleep (you can bet they are on alert the entire time), not get water, and process all these new scents and sights.

The only benefit that I can see, if you even want to call it a benefit, is the owner feels a bit of coolness factor and enjoys a bit of the shock factor by walking around and parading their snake in public.

I would urge you to re-consider.

I occasionally take mine out into the back yard for a bit, but I never take them out in public, unless it is to an event where animals are being displayed or shown for educational purposes.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

If you knew how badly there are people out there in high places that want to legislate to take away our rights to even KEEP these animals, you'd probably think twice, even three times (hopefully more) before you take your snake and display it in public.

If you're relatively new to keeping these magnificent animals, I recommend a journey up to the Laws & Legislation forums and get yourself familiar with what's going on, and the climate of the political aspect of this.

First, I don't see a reason to give anyone un-necessary ammunition against us. Are the chances that you'll encounter someone who has an unreasonable fear of these animals high? I don't know. I do think it's likely, and all it takes is that person to make a complaint and then a letter to the editor, then a local interest story on the news. And then, because it's about snakes, it will likely spread. At the very least, HSUS and their team will have people looking just for local tidbits like this for their battle against our right to keep them as pets as an illustration of us as crazy and irresponsible owners. It doesn't matter that it's not necessarily irresponsible under normal cirucumstances, but it is in this political climate. But there are enough people in the general populace that are fearful of snakes or hate snakes, that a story like that and the push to pass laws to prevent it happening again would only gain those people's support.

Secondly, there's not ONE single benefit that your snake will get out of the experience. Not a single one. You put your snake in a stressful situation. And since they are so adept at hiding illnesses when they are sick or stressed, just as a survival instinct, you don't have any idea just how stressful it is to them to be not at optimal temperature for extended periods of time, not be able to sleep (you can bet they are on alert the entire time), not get water, and process all these new scents and sights.

The only benefit that I can see, if you even want to call it a benefit, is the owner feels a bit of coolness factor and enjoys a bit of the shock factor by walking around and parading their snake in public.

I would urge you to re-consider.

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I shall continue to respectfully disagree with this perspective.

If the handler is responsible with their snake and fulfill all of the snakes requirements with recognition of what may or may not be encountered in the public atmosphere, what is the real harm to the snake owning community?

It is possible that some will not like seeing a snake in public, but as I said its highly unlikely that anyone will flip-out.

I am an active supporter of the Second Amendment community and I think perhaps we have taken a more aggressive stance when defending our rights than this. I would not, for example, refuse to carry my Glock 23 simply because it may offend someone who may make a complaint to an editor, etc, etc. This is unreasonable!

If you are not doing anything wrong then DO NOT fear consequences. If the mere threat of impending legislation can cause you to stop that action which it intends to legislate, they have already won.

This is not intended to convince you to take a snake out and about, its intended for you to make the decision for the right and reasonable reason.

I agree 100% that there is little to no reward for the snake. However the reward for those people you may encounter (I feel) could and should significantly outweigh any possible negative repercussions.

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Originally Posted by BigByrd47119

I agree 100% that there is little to no reward for the snake. However the reward for those people you may encounter (I feel) could and should significantly outweigh any possible negative repercussions.

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And I will have to respectfully disagree with the bolded part.

Having been through several years of fighting bill after bill after bill with the Reptile Nation and USARK, I still don't believe taking a snake to a public event to show just how cool you are because you have a snake around your neck is a good idea.

There are many other controlled and better environments in which to educate.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

There are many other controlled and better environments in which to educate.

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This I will agree with you as well. Indoor environments would be more favorable but that too depends on the setting.

To the OP, have you ever taken this particular snake out into public before? It may be best to start small and work your way up. Some snakes may take to it well where as others don't even want to be out of their cages.

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I still don't believe taking a snake to a public event to show just how cool you are because you have a snake around your neck is a good idea.

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I will also agree with you here. If you take a snake out, do it for the right reasons. Expect the worst, hope for the best, and always be prepared for any situation. Perhaps most importantly, be approachable when it comes to those interested in what your carrying. Keep in mind that it may be a store representative that will approach you, and ask you to leave.

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Originally Posted by BigByrd47119

I will also agree with you here. If you take a snake out, do it for the right reasons. Expect the worst, hope for the best, and always be prepared for any situation. Perhaps most importantly, be approachable when it comes to those interested in what your carrying. Keep in mind that it may be a store representative that will approach you, and ask you to leave.

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I hope that you will receive my replies as healthy debate, and not as singling you out. That is truly not my intent (singling you out).

Besides taking snakes out to public events, I even MORE vehemently disagree with taking it into ANY retail environment that doesn't allow ANY animal (other than service animals) inside its establishment. We are not entitled to "break the rules" because we have an unusual pet.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Besides taking snakes out to public events, I even MORE vehemently disagree with taking it into ANY retail environment that doesn't allow ANY animal (other than service animals) inside its establishment. We are not entitled to "break the rules" because we have an unusual pet.

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It really makes me mad to see people walk through a grocery store because their dog only weighs 4 pounds, and the managers be completely okay with it. This is a perfect example of "special pets"

Kinda off topic, but it crossed my mind and I had to say it lol

Hi,

I've added my comments in red within your post.

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Originally Posted by BigByrd47119

I shall continue to respectfully disagree with this perspective.

If the handler is responsible with their snake and fulfill all of the snakes requirements with recognition of what may or may not be encountered in the public atmosphere, what is the real harm to the snake owning community?

Ok exactly how likely is it that the snake in question will have the exact warm and cool end temps and humidity provided to the same degree as its home environment?

How many people going to a car show say to themselves " I might encounter a snake so I had better prepare myself"?


It is possible that some will not like seeing a snake in public, but as I said its highly unlikely that anyone will flip-out.

I admire your prescience but doubt its 100% accuracy.

I am an active supporter of the Second Amendment community and I think perhaps we have taken a more aggressive stance when defending our rights than this. I would not, for example, refuse to carry my Glock 23 simply because it may offend someone who may make a complaint to an editor, etc, etc. This is unreasonable!

The second amendment is obviouslty alien to my culture.

Would you, however, wave said Glock arround in public for no good reason?

Is there, perhaps, an amendment I missed about the right to bear snakes?

I'm sorry but that is a damned stupid argument from start to finish.

Walk into a crowd, wave your glock in the air, and see what happens.

If you are not doing anything wrong then DO NOT fear consequences. If the mere threat of impending legislation can cause you to stop that action which it intends to legislate, they have already won.

Or you could not be an inconsiderate ass about it. They make laws to deal with people who cannot behave in a civilised manner. Intentionally doing something you know could cause offense loses you any sympathy if said action goes badly wrong. Freedom has limits for a reason - and nine times out of ten it's because someone acted like an idiot

This is not intended to convince you to take a snake out and about, its intended for you to make the decision for the right and reasonable reason.

Definately the right way to approach this. Don't make it about something it plainly isn't - just ask if it is good for the snake and not going to negatively affect everyone else. I'm pretty open about the fact it will be, at best, not damaging for the snake and of no benefit to anyone. Sorry but that is my opinion.

I agree 100% that there is little to no reward for the snake. However the reward for those people you may encounter (I feel) could and should significantly outweigh any possible negative repercussions.

Sorry, but a well planned and organised handling experience is the way to do this. Not a well meaning individual just bringing a snake to a public space and assuming nothing will go wrong.

That all of use here would be thrilled to see a nice ball python in those circumstances cannot be extrapolated to say everyone else feels the same. i'm sorry ( again ) but this has bad idea written all over it in big red crayon.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

I hope that you will receive my replies as healthy debate, and not as singling you out. That is truly not my intent (singling you out).

Besides taking snakes out to public events, I even MORE vehemently disagree with taking it into ANY retail environment that doesn't allow ANY animal (other than service animals) inside its establishment. We are not entitled to "break the rules" because we have an unusual pet.

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I truly love a healthy debate and do not perceive this as you singling me out at all!

I agree with your statement here as well. My previous post was just a general reference. As I stated in my second post in this discussion, a good handler will follow all applicable rules/laws pertaining to their situation.

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

I've added my comments in red within your post.

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Well, allow me to start off with the comment regarding the "waiving of said Glock in the air."

I probably wasn't as clear as I could have been (and I apologize) but I was referring to the carry of any firearm. More specifically I was referring to the open carry (OC) of a firearm (holstered on hip). This is in comparison to carrying a firearm concealed (follow the laws in your area). I could carry my Glock concealed all the time, but some times its more convenient to simply open carry. Assuming I am not breaking any law by doing so I have every right to do it, despite some peoples opinions.

The idea I was trying to relay was this. Why NOT take your snake with you if one or two people may be slightly offended? Your not taking the snake out and about for their enjoyment or education, although sometimes both of these do occur as a result of an encounter with a less than snake friendly individual.

I don't feel most well-rounded adults in society today would need to mentally or physically prepare themselves for an encounter with a properly handled snake.

I ask anyone here to point to at least a few examples of someone who was doing things right when taking their snake out and about, but still caused a person/people to "flip-out." Although I am sure its not impossible to find such an example, its not likely that you will find many.

Its ignorant to suggest that there will be no benefit to anyone, child, adult, senior, or other that confronts an owner with his snake (once again, we like responsible owners to represent us). I am a perfect example of why it is that its not a horrible idea. I would simply still possess a unfounded fear for snakes if it were not for someone doing that which many here seem so opposed to.

Restrictions on freedom are a necessity, despite how unfortunate that might be. It does not however stand to reason that a small percentage (say >1%) of owners should have the kind of influence to shape an entire classification of people. If one idiot takes his Eastern Diamondback out to the mall and starts throwing it at people, he obviously needs to be dealt with. Its not an issue that other snake owners should be faced with.

This is my final comment here although I shall continue to read this thread as it progresses.

I don't waive my gun around in public, in fact you'll rarely if ever know that I have it with me, that is my intent. I don't recall a amendment allowing the average citizen to "bear snakes," although I seem to remember something about the pursuit of happiness. Lastly I am not sure why you turned so defensive of this topic which was a very mature conversation between two adults. I am aware that I must have struck a nerve somehow and I want you to know that was never my intentions.

This message brought to you by:
A snake owning, gun "toting," American country boy born and bred right here in Ohio!

Hi,

I'm not sure I am really that defensive about it bearing in mind I am on a different continent and, as such, have a different set of laws and social mores to work with.

It honestly will never affect me one way or the other.

I just, honestly, cannot see any upsides to it.

I can see a lot of potential downsides. But not one upside. For either the snake or the hobby as a whole.

The media being what it is one person throwing a diamond back is represented as a much more common thing than it is and certainly gets more airtime than 100 responsible keepers and overly restrictive laws get passed as a result. I fully agree this is irrational and unfair. It still doesn't stop it being true.

For you a random encounter with a reptile bearing person was a positive experience. I'm just trying to point out that those for whom it will not be positive will be heard far louder and longer.

We are in a minority hobby that has problems being accepted by the average person. I just think prudence and consideration will avoid a lot more problems than any other approach.

I know it isn't a popular stance but, in cases like this, I feel flaunting your rights makes it more likely they will be taken away from you.


dr del

All I can say is a couple of years ago we had an awesome Exotic pet store open up on Dixie highway, specializing in reptiles of all kinds, and feeder rats, mice and rabbits. The young lady owner was very knowledgeable on all reptiles, and was very helpful and honest about the pros and cons of each animal.

However she had two very large Burmese Pythons in the store window in a large cage. They were amazing creatures. The problem was even having them on public display in a locked cage cause a stir and when the nearby city changed the No Pit Bull ordinance to allow Pit Bulls but require them and other "vicious" dog to be registered. It also prohibited many exotic animals, specifically constrictor snakes. Shortly after the new ordinance went into effect the Exotic Pet Store Closed.

It is a perfect example of how fear often leads to knee jerk reactions.

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

I'm not sure I am really that defensive about it bearing in mind I am on a different continent and, as such, have a different set of laws and social mores to work with.

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I am sorry to hear that. I truly thought you were just messing with me!

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The media being what it is one person throwing a diamond back is represented as a much more common thing than it is and certainly gets more airtime than 100 responsible keepers and overly restrictive laws get passed as a result. I fully agree this is irrational and unfair. It still doesn't stop it being true.

For you a random encounter with a reptile bearing person was a positive experience. I'm just trying to point out that those for whom it will not be positive will be heard far louder and longer.

We are in a minority hobby that has problems being accepted by the average person. I just think prudence and consideration will avoid a lot more problems than any other approach.

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I could not agree with you more on these points, and I thank you for making them. Its popular to say, "Bad news is good news, in the news industry." :mad:

Perhaps I should consider getting active in the exotic pets legislation area. I always loved expanding my borders!

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I know it isn't a popular stance but, in cases like this, I feel flaunting your rights makes it more likely they will be taken away from you.


dr del

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Lets just agree to disagree on this point :gj:.

By the way, where are you from out of curiosity?

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By the way, where are you from out of curiosity?

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You can see where Derek is from by looking directly under his user name (in his case - Scotland).

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Secondly, there's not ONE single benefit that your snake will get out of the experience. Not a single one.

The only benefit that I can see, if you even want to call it a benefit, is the owner feels a bit of coolness factor and enjoys a bit of the shock factor by walking around and parading their snake in public.

I would urge you to re-consider.

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I agree. We are talking about animals that will spend 95% - 99% of their time in their hides! Dragging them out into public to be gawked at (even to a rock concert based on one post regarding loud music) strikes me as cruel and quite simply taking advantage of their gentle and reclusive nature. I can see the value of the occasional educational and heavily controlled class room event but nothing beyond that.

These are sentient creatures, I am sure even though they do not outwardly show it they do get VERY frightened when dragged out into public, the fear of predators and such must be distressing.

The mental and physical well being of your animal should always take precedence over your own amusement.