Snake died suddenly, why?

We had a breeding pair of het pieds being kept at my boyfriend's house in a rack. The rack is in an insulated shed heated by a radiatior. The ambient temp in there is kept at 80 degrees, and their hot spot is 90.

They were last paired about three weeks ago, and they locked. Neither has been eating for the past two months, but we figured it was seasonal. They are checked on every day and handled frequently.

My boyfriend says he tried to feed the male this morning, handled him, and he seemed normal. Tongue flickering, moving actively, clear pink mouth and nostrils (he pulls down the lower lip to check inside their mouths). That was at 7 AM this morning.

At 7 o'clock this evening, he came home from school and checked on them again. The shed smelled awful and he found the male het dead. The paper towel substrate was covered in blood, black sludge and brown fluid. The snake was upside down and limp, not yet in rigor.

When my boyfriend picked him up, clear fluid ran out of his mouth, and later pinkish orange slime came out. The blood appeared to be coming from his cloaca, which looks to me like it's torn. He was flimsy throughout his body, but was stiff near his cloaca.

We're terrified that whatever this is might be contagious and will spread to our female. She appears completely healthy, but so did the male this morning. This was completely out of the blue. We removed his dirty drawer and scrubbed down all the others very well, gave her fresh water. Does it sound like any illness/problem that any of you have experienced before? We still have the male's body in the freezer, and may get a necropsy done. :'(

Take it out of the freezer and put it in the fridge. Freezing makes some determinations impossible.

Sounds like he got injured somehow or overheated. Did you check temps?

We have a herpstat pro which is running perfectly. Directly against the heat rope is 90 degrees, and with a temp gun the plastic is measured to be about 88 degrees on the hot spot. The radiator has a thermostat set to 78 degrees which leads to the ambient temp being 80. Is that too hot?

Not too hot. It's just that the degree of decomposition you describe is often brought on by high heat. They don't usually rot that fast.

I think the rotten smell was the black sludge and blood etc. He hadn't been dead for long, he was still all floppy

I'm sorry for your loss. Maybe contact a herp vet in your area and see if he/she can shed some light on the situation. Hopefully your lock was successful and you have beautiful babies to remember him by.

Your method of controlled heating sounds good. However your profile states that you're from SoCal (which gets HOT). So I ask, do you have any method to cool the shed automatically?

I'm sorry for your lost. Contact a vet, they will probably help you.

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Originally Posted by LizardPants

Your method of controlled heating sounds good. However your profile states that you're from SoCal (which gets HOT). So I ask, do you have any method to cool the shed automatically?

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The shed is in the shade of two trees. During the heat of the summer, the ambient temp did get up to the high 80's. We just turned off the heat when it got very hot. Since it's only March, the highest temperature has been in the 70's for the past few months.

When's the last time you actually saw the animal? Could your boyfriend be giving you a line about when he checked them last? I'm not too familiar with conditions but I've never heard anything like that happen in a few hours. Something just doesn't add up. I'm sorry to hear about your loss.

Regards,

B

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Originally Posted by Simple Man

When's the last time you actually saw the animal? Could your boyfriend be giving you a line about when he checked them last? I'm not too familiar with conditions but I've never heard anything like that happen in a few hours. Something just doesn't add up. I'm sorry to hear about your loss.

Regards,

B

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I actually saw the snake about two weeks ago, but I 100% believe he is being sincere. He takes meticulous care of them and keeps detailed records of what goes on. He tells me about every little issue that might become problematic and seemed legitimately shocked that he went south so quickly.

One bizarre thing he told me about (that I think is unrelated, but is still interesting) is that a few weeks ago he attempted to feed the male het a live rat, and he bit it but didn't constrict. Over the next few days the rat's hair fell out in a circular patch where he was bitten, and now has grown back sparsely. We've never seen that happen before.

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Originally Posted by Simple Man

When's the last time you actually saw the animal? Could your boyfriend be giving you a line about when he checked them last? I'm not too familiar with conditions but I've never heard anything like that happen in a few hours. Something just doesn't add up. I'm sorry to hear about your loss.

Regards,

B

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I was wondering the same thing. Keep in mind that rigor mortis goes away. So it takes a little bit for it to set in and then it dissipates over time. With humans rigor sets in after 3 hours and you stiffen till about hour 12 and then it gradually dissipates for the next 60 hours. The advancement of rigor is hastened by heat. Its possible the snake had gone into rigor and come out of rigor by the time it was found.

I have had a female die suddenly , but was nothing like what you are explaining. The only thing you can do really is go to get a necropsy. Freezing is bad if you want one done so always refrigerate. And I beleive you have to get the deceased to the vet asap so he has it as fresh as possible. I had to Fedex overnight that female I lost to my vet specifically bc there was no way i could drive out there the day I lost her. He had said I needed to get her there by 24 hours. I'm sorry for your loss that's horrible. Idk what would affect a snake within 24 hours. The only thing you can do is qt that girl and watch everyone. I'm sorry.
Morgan

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Originally Posted by Homegrownscales

I have had a female die suddenly , but was nothing like what you are explaining. The only thing you can do really is go to get a necropsy. Freezing is bad if you want one done so always refrigerate. And I beleive you have to get the deceased to the vet asap so he has it as fresh as possible. I had to Fedex overnight that female I lost to my vet specifically bc there was no way i could drive out there the day I lost her. He had said I needed to get her there by 24 hours. I'm sorry for your loss that's horrible. Idk what would affect a snake within 24 hours. The only thing you can do is qt that girl and watch everyone. I'm sorry.
Morgan

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In that case I think we'll just throw it out. The smell was awful so we've had him in the freezer and it's been quite a while. Ugh... I doubt there's much more we could do to prevent the female from getting sick, anyway.

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Originally Posted by Egapal

I was wondering the same thing. Keep in mind that rigor mortis goes away. So it takes a little bit for it to set in and then it dissipates over time. With humans rigor sets in after 3 hours and you stiffen till about hour 12 and then it gradually dissipates for the next 60 hours. The advancement of rigor is hastened by heat. Its possible the snake had gone into rigor and come out of rigor by the time it was found.

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I don't think rigor mortis would have gone away that soon if it had been able to set in.

I'm really sorry for your loss though, and thats bizarre about the rat losing hair. While they may not be able to do a full necropsy, if there is some serious viral infection or something of the type, would they not be able to test for it with the remains that are left?

While you may not be able to do anything if your other snakes are also affected, you may still want to at least speak with a vet and see what they may recommend.

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Originally Posted by lk_holla

I don't think rigor mortis would have gone away that soon if it had been able to set in.

I'm really sorry for your loss though, and thats bizarre about the rat losing hair. While they may not be able to do a full necropsy, if there is some serious viral infection or something of the type, would they not be able to test for it with the remains that are left?

While you may not be able to do anything if your other snakes are also affected, you may still want to at least speak with a vet and see what they may recommend.

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I was referring to the post that "Simple Man" had made. Rigor should not go away after 12 hours. That being said if the Boyfriend was lying (Good people lie all the time out of fear and guilt) and he had not checked on the snake since say 7pm the day before? I think, although I am not an expert, that the rigor could have gone away in 24 hours if snake was dead on the hide side of the enclosure. Again I am not calling the boyfriend a lier. I am merely suggesting a scenario where rigor could have past to explain the apparent advanced state of decay.

Yes i agree you should check him to a specialist and i really feel bad to hear about your loss.