WTH!must see! - VERY graphic picture warning

i found this on google.i was very shocked when i see this picture.i dont know what happen to this bp.very sad.i think she still alive when the pic is taken.anyone know the story behind this pic?

http://www.proexotics.com/graphics/b...ive_prey_1.jpg

omg. I want to cry.

I really hope they put that poor thing down. I'm sure it was a rat attack. I don't know of anything else that would do such damage. Poor poor thing. This is a perfect example as to why you should supervise live feedings.

Actually I rather wouldn't have seen this :(

definitely a rat/mouse attack. :tears:
i'm SO glad i supervise my live feedings as neurotically as i do.
literally i sit in front of the terrarium, ready to pounce and interfere if my girl happens to get an iffy grab, which she has done a couple times but rest assured no injuries came of those odd feedings, well, none to the snake anyhow.
i also take detailed notes on every feeding session and i dont go away until my girl has finished swallowing the rat and is settling down in one of her hide boxes.
i'm also the ONLY one in the room during a feeding as well. this keeps traffic vibrations down and i dont have to worry about distractions or anything like that.

Can a mod put a warning in the title please?

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Originally Posted by psychophobia

i found this on google.i was very shocked when i see this picture.i dont know what happen to this bp.very sad.i think she still alive when the pic is taken.anyone know the story behind this pic?

http://www.proexotics.com/graphics/b...ive_prey_1.jpg

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thats what happens when you leave live rats or mice unattended with your bp:mad:

Really? I didn't need to see this at 8AM.

It is a little to early to be seeing an image like this. This is what happens when keepers are not responsible enough to supervise live feedings when leaving a mouse or rat alone with the snake for to long of a time period. Live feedings can be done just fine when monitored very closely. I hope this doesn't turn into a live vs. f/t feeding thread. We all have been over that one so many times it is not even funny.

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Originally Posted by ryan427

thats what happens when you leave live rats or mice unattended with your bp:mad:

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Unfortunately yes, this is what can happen if you leave a rat/mouse unattended with your BP.

your supposed to have "WARNING GRAPHIC IMAGE" in the title, not "must see"....

heres the page the picture is from... (WARNING SAME PICTURE) http://www.proexotics.com/live_prey.htm
all it says is "This picture is an extreme example of the risks of feeding live prey, as detailed in our FAQ"

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Originally Posted by psychophobia

i found this on google.i was very shocked when i see this picture.i dont know what happen to this bp.very sad.i think she still alive when the pic is taken.anyone know the story behind this pic?

http://www.proexotics.com/graphics/b...ive_prey_1.jpg

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i really dont like to see images like this but i think it sets an example to new keepers and keepers who feed live .so to all snake keepers THIS CAN HAPPEN TO YOUR SNAKE IF YOU DONT KEEP AND EYE WHEN FEEDING LIVE!!!

Worst thread ever.

I remember seeing this a while back

Never leave feeders in with your snakes unattended

OMG, that is seriously the saddest thing I have ever seen, I really want to cry right now. I can't believe people let this happen so their pets. I hope for the poor things sake that he was put down so he doesn't have to suffer. Horrible, just horrible...

:tears:

so this thread can be a warning sign to any keeper or breeder to monitor their snake when give
live rat/mouse.so it not a worst thread.people dont take any advise if they dont see the example of what happen when they do something.believe me,this thread will make everyone of us to avoid this thing happen in the future. take a lesson from this picture.

picture say a thousand words

Hard to look at but yes I believe that was a rat attack. If I remember correctly it was an adult rat left in over-night for feeding. Very sad, ball pythons often have no defense against the teeth of a grown rat. Turning the tables here's a pic of my green tree python constricting a rat, note the lower teeth, unlike wild rats whose teeth are ground down by various object they gnaw on, cb rats have teeth that grow out of hand. Btw rats teeth never stop growing and they must grind them down.. Alright so heres the pic: http://184.72.239.143/mu/6c40058b-5e69-905f.jpg

That is horrible. I feed my ball live (closely surpervised) because that is what the breeder I got her from did. Maybe I should switch to F/T? Is that possible to do after they have had live their whole life?

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Originally Posted by Jerhart

Worst thread ever.

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Why? I think this is a very real issue and I think everyone who owns a snake should see it.

Yeah, I've seen this before.. Sadly if you google search 'cute ball python' this is one of the images that pops up! Yikes!

I don't think "Must See" is the correct title for this post.. yah, I know you said there were graphic photos.. but come one. I think I just lost my appetite for breakfast. Poor poor snake. This is just horrible.

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Originally Posted by Daniel Tuttle

That is horrible. I feed my ball live (closely surpervised) because that is what the breeder I got her from did. Maybe I should switch to F/T? Is that possible to do after they have had live their whole life?

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Don't leave a full grown rat in with your snake for days and this won't happen. That picture is what happens when a rat is starving, not a rat that was left in the cage for an hour. Just like when rats are starving they will eat each other or their babies. I've actually spoken to a fairly large breeder who routinely leaves rodents in overnight for feeding and then pulls them in the morning. The only time something like this has happened to him was when a rat was missed the next morning and ended up spending another day in the tub without any food.

Looks like one of the staff members took care of adding a warning to the thread title. I do agree that it's beneficial to have a thread like this pop up from time to time, but anytime a graphic picture is used, a warning should be placed in the thread title because seriously, not everyone wants an emotional punch in the gut first thing in the morning....ok?

An injury like that doesn't happen simply due to lack of "keeping a close eye" on a live feeding. And despite the "story" that has circulated with the picture, I have my doubts that something that bad happened even overnight. I would put money on the fact that the rat was left in with the snake for at least a couple of days. That's not to say that it couldn't have happened overnight. Leaving a live adult rodent in with your snake for more than the 20-30 minutes it takes for the snake to decide if it wants to eat or not is DANGEROUS.

I have to agree with JLC, Rats may land a single bite if they get bit out of defense. For the rat to continually chew on the snake like that...it takes quite a while before the rat goes "ok i have no food around but i still have to survive what can i eat" I don't see that being an over night thing either.

so what happen if the rat already not eat for 1 or 2 day before the keeper put it in the tank?the same thing happen in overnight right?so we learn a new lesson now,make sure the live rat/mouse you buy must be fed well too before put it in the tank.like what i am doing now,i will buy a rat 2 days earlier to make sure the rat is healthy,already eat n clean.(yes i know it will be eat by the snake later.lolz!)but i will give the best for my snake.

Judy got to it before I did. That is definitely not from leaving the rat in there for a few minutes or even over night. That's what happens if you think that your rat and snake are friends and should live together.

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Originally Posted by Daniel Tuttle

That is horrible. I feed my ball live (closely surpervised) because that is what the breeder I got her from did. Maybe I should switch to F/T? Is that possible to do after they have had live their whole life?

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Yes it is possible. Start offering a freshly killed to your snake, using tongs of course, and wiggle it around. It may take a while but they will switch. There are tons of pages that give extra advice to entice a BP into switching. It is usually hardest to get a wild caught to take prekills.

Mine will snatch a frozen up almost the second I put it in the tank. She smells it when I start to dethaw it and starts getting anxious.

Yes, it's sad and graphic, but I also agree with what others have said about this being beneficial to those naive to the risks of leaving a live rodent in with a ball python for days. I really just do not understand why anyone would want to leave a rodent in with a snake for such a long period of time. It's simply irresponsible and should be considered animal cruelty in my opinion.
May the lesson learned be taken to heart!

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Originally Posted by Agent73

Unfortunately yes, this is what can happen if you leave a rat/mouse unattended with your BP.

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Also did not want to see the photo in the beginning of the thread.

This was posted on CS.com some time ago; I'll see if I can find the thread tomorrow.

The story is pretty simple. Someone left a mouse, yes a MOUSE if memory serves me right, over night with this young BP. The animal is still alive in the photos and was put down shortly after.

This is why I refuse to feed live or stunned rodents. If a BP doesn't coil correctly for whatever reason, an adult rat can easily put it's teeth in a snake's head, and with stunned prey, it may not be properly stunned. Just my opinion.

I hate the "the sky is falling" reaction that this photo always generates. I also hate that people use it as propoganda not to feed live, and that it's an example of "here's what can happen to your snake if you feed live!!!!!!! ZOMG!!!!"

That's why Jerhart said "worst thread ever".

I feed live. Always have. I've fed over 15K live prey off. I've NEVER, EVER had anything more significant than a mild scratch. Do I supervise each and every feeding. Nope - not at all. I have 50 ball pythons to feed. I'm opening drawers, dropping in the rat and moving on to the next drawer.

Feeding day goes a little like this - open drawer, drop in rat, THWUMP! open drawer, drop in rat, THWUMP.

After all the snakes are fed, I go back through all the drawers to make sure that each snake has its rat wrapped or is already eating. If they haven't taken their prey yet, it's usually in a back corner grooming itself. I give each snake 30 minutes if they don't take their prey right away, and come back after 30 minutes and remove the rodent. I've NEVER EVER had a live rodent just randomly walk up to a snake and bite it in 30 minute's time, not even in an hour's time.

So, let's take my figure of 15K live feedings. Let's just pretend I've had 5 significant injuries (remember, I've had nothing more significant than a mild scratch) during those 15K feedings. That would work out to .00033% of my feedings resulting in serious injury.

Who here is going to argue that is a significant risk of injury from feeding live?

If so many ball pythons were getting mauled from live feeding similarly to the animal represented in that picture, why aren't there more pictures like that out there substantiating the claim that feeding live will result in injuries like that? Think about that. How many pictures have you seen besides that one, with that much damage, claiming that it resulted from live feeding?

That injury happened from NEGLIGENCE. NOT from feeding live prey. NEGLIGENCE.

Man - I'm really running out of pennies these days. I just have very little patience for the anti-live camp always using this photo to try to convince people that feeding live is so dangerous, when my own experience, and the experience of thousands of other keepers doesn't substantiate that proclaimed danger.

:twocents:

errrrr.i dont see anyone said dont feed live mouse,what i see is monitor you snake when u give live mouse.like what u do,u too monitor u snake right,that what the picture try to say.

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Originally Posted by psychophobia

errrrr.i dont see anyone said dont feed live mouse,what i see is monitor you snake when u give live mouse.like what u do,u too monitor u snake right,that what the picture try to say.

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Yes there were people bashing live eaters, but I think she meant for the future posts, since I'm sure she's seen it 100 times before, it goes downhill very quickly.

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Originally Posted by psychophobia

errrrr.i dont see anyone said dont feed live mouse,what i see is monitor you snake when u give live mouse.like what u do,u too monitor u snake right,that what the picture try to say.

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Mmmm, no - the picture doesn't say monitor your snake when you give live prey, since it has ZERO to do with feeding live.

It DOES says - don't be an idiot and leave your live prey in with your snake for days on end with no food or water source, other than the snake itself.

I agree the only time this happens is if the prey gets hungry or thirsty there is nothing else for it to eat in the snakes enclosure except the snake. I have fed live to every snake I have ever owned in the past 20+ years and never had any serious injury. If you buy your feeders at the pet store it would be a good Idea to feed them something before putting them in the cage as you don't know how long its been since it had food. I raise all my own feeders so I know they are well fed before going in. I have even left live small rats in with some of my snakes over night but if I do I put a big piece of tortilla or bread in there for it to eat and I make sure there is water and I have never had an issue but there is a risk any time you leave them in for long periods.

Look at how skinny the neck area is on that snake. No way that was an adult rat attack. If I were a betting man I'd say adult mouse. They are much more likely to bite.

I have snakes that eat FT and others that only take live. Yes, it's very important to monitor the animals when offering live, but usually the extreme examples liike the animal pictured in OP is from either a sick (again the very thin neck, dropped sides and visable spin line) or a animal in the sheding process. This also took a LONG TIME and as was been stated, NEVER LEAVE the prey animal in OVERNIGHT :colbert:

Wow that is gnarly! Thats seriously rediculous that the person didn't see the prey chewing the crap out of their snake! What a jackass. I'd like to use stronger terms but I'll keep it nice. Even though they don't deserve it. I agree that feeding live is totally harmless unless you are that owner. You'll get a scratch or even a bite here or there. But that's really nothing. I have 41 balls and everyone gets live. I do the same drop, shut tub, drop. Except at my house its like thud, rat scream, shut tub. With even a novice pet owner. If the snake doesn't eat it take it out. Takes two min. That takes a long time of chewing. That's just awful. Seriously.

That is a pic linked to our Pro Exotics FAQ on feeding live prey items.

Not our pic, I also found it on teh Internets of Webs many years ago. I think it was probably a live mouse that did the damage, over a few days time.

I am not a fan of feeding live, I would rather see keepers feed thawed, but that is a different discussion.

But I think that this pic IS relevant to feeding live. There is negligence and ignorance at the source of the pic, for sure, but most likely what has happened is the keeper put in a live mouse. When they went back to check it, the mouse was "gone" and "eaten". But in actuality, the mouse was hiding in the hide spot, behind/under the water bowl, sometimes even under the snake...

The keeper thinks all is good, and safe, until they look in again 2 days later, and find shock and horror. This pic breaks my heart every time.

But it DOES happen. We have had it happen here at PE, a couple of times. Never anything like this, but a half inch of skin chewed off? Sure. That happens. You are going through 400 babies or juvies, and feeding live to the stubborn feeders. You try and be thorough and pull all the live, of course, but that one hiding mouse...

Sometimes he just poops all over the cage and spills the water bowl. And sometimes...

I remember two snakes with bad half inch bare patches eaten off. We put those animals down. I couldn't tell you how many times I have fed live mice/rats and seen a poorly grabbed rodent turn around and start biting a snake neck or head. That type of reality is what got me turning hard to thawed prey in the first place.

If you can feed thawed prey, I would absolutely suggest it.

And I still hate that picture...

BTW, the FAQ says "don't look at the pic, and even then, don't look at the pic (this Ball python is still very much alive, but must be put down as soon as possible), but if you must see it to believe it, it is here."

mouse left in cage too long?