Howdy! New here and pretty new to BP's - And....I have an issue with my new BP

Hello,

I'm new here and pretty new to BP's in general. I got a BP about a month ago off of Craigslist. She came with her enclosure and is very friendly and looks pretty healthy. It's an open air enclosure, and has its own balcony etc. Which she DOES explore the whole cage. It's got an UT heater built in between tile and wood. The sides are made of hardware cloth. She's been living in it for quite a while so I'm hesitant to change her at this point into a tank (I've been reading they should be in a tank and don't need so much space).



She apparently was fed live rats. Well when I first got her she had been fed a day or two prior to that so I wouldn't have to worry about it for about 10-14 days. Well day 14 comes, I go buy a small rat, put it in there and she refuses it.

My other half said "No...you can't put that one back in there, we'll wait a few days and go get another one but that one is now "Lucky" the pet rat".

So a few more days go by, I go get another rat (meanwhile lucky's living the life of Riley in her very own 30 gallon tank)....and she refuses THIS one too. It's at this point I notice that she looks like she's getting ready to shed so I figured that's why she wouldn't eat. SO....now I'm stuck with TWO refused rats. Eh ok, I like rats, they can stay pets.

So, she just finished shedding about three days ago. I go get another rat, she refuses it. Said rat is going back to petco tonight.

My reptile room is right above my furnace so the room itself stays about 80 degrees if I keep the door shut. Humidity...I am not sure of right now because my hygrometer croaked.

I've been offered advice to brain a rat but I just can't bring myself to do that and I"m not sure it would work anyway because she won't eat killed food.

It's been a month, she hasn't eaten and has lost a little weight (I could tell when I picked her up). Will a snake willingly starve itself to death? Or will it eat when it gets hungry enough.

She shows no signs of dehydration or lethargy or URI.

Advice would me much appreciated...because I'm at my witts end.

My other younger smaller bp is doing very well and took a switch from live to f/t very quickly. (He's a bit nippy too).

:welcome: to BP.net. What is her set up like? read the care sheets in the forums, and make sure husbandry is correct.

I'd be finding a tank or a tub set up, until you get the snake into a proper enclosure working on eating issues would be a moot point IMO.

80 degrees ambient room temperature is what we shoot for on the cold side of an enclosure so the snake isn't getting the heat it wants or needs.

Most people use belly heat with ball pythons giving them a hot spot to lay on that aids in digestion, the cool enclosure could be one reason why your snakes not eating, that and stress from an improper enclosure.

Read the care sheets, look at other peoples set ups and continue to ask questions, there's many people on here that would be happy to assist.

Thank you, I'm currently browsing the care sheets.

She does have UT heat in her enclosure, the UT heat sandwhiched between tile and wood I mentioned above. So she has belly heat like you suggested.

From what I understand she's been in this thing for her entire life (ie several years) with no problems. Wouldn't moving her out of it now (after an entire rehome move) just stress her out more and make her want to eat even less?

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Originally Posted by Gator D Tegu

Hello,

I'm new here and pretty new to BP's in general. I got a BP about a month ago off of Craigslist. She came with her enclosure and is very friendly and looks pretty healthy. It's an open air enclosure, and has its own balcony etc. Which she DOES explore the whole cage. It's got an UT heater built in between tile and wood. The sides are made of hardware cloth. She's been living in it for quite a while so I'm hesitant to change her at this point into a tank (I've been reading they should be in a tank and don't need so much space).

She apparently was fed live rats. Well when I first got her she had been fed a day or two prior to that so I wouldn't have to worry about it for about 10-14 days. Well day 14 comes, I go buy a small rat, put it in there and she refuses it.

My other half said "No...you can't put that one back in there, we'll wait a few days and go get another one but that one is now "Lucky" the pet rat".

So a few more days go by, I go get another rat (meanwhile lucky's living the life of Riley in her very own 30 gallon tank)....and she refuses THIS one too. It's at this point I notice that she looks like she's getting ready to shed so I figured that's why she wouldn't eat. SO....now I'm stuck with TWO refused rats. Eh ok, I like rats, they can stay pets.

So, she just finished shedding about three days ago. I go get another rat, she refuses it. Said rat is going back to petco tonight.

My reptile room is right above my furnace so the room itself stays about 80 degrees if I keep the door shut. Humidity...I am not sure of right now because my hygrometer croaked.

I've been offered advice to brain a rat but I just can't bring myself to do that and I"m not sure it would work anyway because she won't eat killed food.

It's been a month, she hasn't eaten and has lost a little weight (I could tell when I picked her up). Will a snake willingly starve itself to death? Or will it eat when it gets hungry enough.

She shows no signs of dehydration or lethargy or URI.

Advice would me much appreciated...because I'm at my witts end.

My other younger smaller bp is doing very well and took a switch from live to f/t very quickly. (He's a bit nippy too).

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First off: Welcome to BP.net:welcome:

An open air enclosure with hardware cloth sides sounds like it would be a nightmare to keep proper humidity levels in (at least 50% at all times)
As others have said Ball Pythons like smaller, secure feeling enclosure. Something where at least 3 sides of the enclosure are covered and there are hides on both the cool and warm sides of the enclosure. Preferably you want both hides to be identical in order for you BP to never choose security over thermoregulation.

If your BP is not eating I can think of 4 possible things it may be:
1. Husbandry is not right. Is her warm side over the UTH about 90 degrees?
2. Your BP does not feel secure and is stressed.
3. The former owner was mistaken and the BP is eating mice. You might want to try a live mouse and see if you get some interest.
4. Your BP is simply not hungry. Older BP's can go a long time without eating. During the breeding season my males typically don't eat for about 6 months with no ill effects.

Also to increase the chance of you BP eating try offering the meal during either dawn or dusk. In the wild this is usually when BP's come out look for food.

You also may want to check out the BP.net caresheet, it has a ton of useful information:http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...s%29-Caresheet

I would move her to a tub setup. It's cheap and it works for humidity. You also can offer the same rat again. I would only offer every 5 days.

Next I'd get a probe thermometer or heat gun to check the uth. They are often way too hot. It should read about90 on the surface above it.

Finally, if you can afford it, get her checked out at a vet. People often get rid of snakes for sometimes hidden reasons. Good to check your new snakes health :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Agent73

First off: Welcome to BP.net:welcome:

An open air enclosure with hardware cloth sides sounds like it would be a nightmare to keep proper humidity levels in (at least 50% at all times)
As others have said Ball Pythons like smaller, secure feeling enclosure. Something where at least 3 sides of the enclosure are covered and there are hides on both the cool and warm sides of the enclosure. Preferably you want both hides to be identical in order for you BP to never choose security over thermoregulation.

If your BP is not eating I can think of 4 possible things it may be:
1. Husbandry is not right. Is her warm side over the UTH about 90 degrees?
2. Your BP does not feel secure and is stressed.
3. The former owner was mistaken and the BP is eating mice. You might want to try a live mouse and see if you get some interest.
4. Your BP is simply not hungry. Older BP's can go a long time without eating. During the breeding season my males typically don't eat for about 6 months with no ill effects.

Also to increase the chance of you BP eating try offering the meal during either dawn or dusk. In the wild this is usually when BP's come out look for food.

You also may want to check out the BP.net caresheet, it has a ton of useful information:http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...s%29-Caresheet

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Thank you! I've been trying to feed her around 7:00 pm, which was dark here before we lost an hour LOL. The guy said they were small rats so maybe it COULDA been large mice??? Didn't think of that.

Will a mouse fill a 4ft snake up?

The seller was helpful every time I asked him questions about her so I don't think he'd have lied to me intentionally.

So....should I offer a mouse today or give her another day or two?

I've got one of those digital probe thermometers I took away from my gu because he tried to eat it (got a thermal gun from online coming) and it says the UT is at about 87.5 not quite 90 F though.

One thing to keep in mind.

Just because that is where she's always been, doesn't make it the best for her. A move is very stressful, add that factor to a less than ideal enclosure, and you get a stressed out, unhappy ball who won't eat.

My advise to you, since it is that time of year for starters, she is undoubtedly still stressed from the move, and she's already not eating is to go ahead and make the switch to a different enclosure if you plan to.

If that isn't really what you want to do, or space constraints won't allow it, consider purchasing plexiglas panels to fit over the hardware cloth to help with humidity issues. For security, you can even purchase "smoked" plexiglas that is translucent black for the back and sides, and leave the front clear for visibility.

I will say, about 90% of the time, an "exploring" ball is an unhappy ball. Unless it's at night and the surroundings are dark, that's a sign of stress. She's trying to escape and find a place to feel safer. Does she have hides? If she doesn't, or they are substandard, that is only adding to the problem.

If you want to change enclosures, go with a 30 gallon aquarium or even better a good sized plastic storage tub. Get that all set up for heat and with good hides. move her in and give her a week to settle in. Start with a large mouse, while not an ideal food for a large ball, it's better than nothing.

By the way, there is nothing wrong with feeding the rats she refused at a later date. I buy enough for two or three weeks at a time. If you aren't careful, you'll soon have so many rats there isn't room for the snake! :)

Gale

Hi Angllady2! Thank you for that post. I'm going out tomorrow to buy a rubbermaid storage tote with a (hopefully locking) lid. That's what I wanted to know, if moving her at this point would cause more harm than good. I'm not reluctant to move her as I'll be converting my basement to my reptile room (my current room is packed) so I will have plenty of space.

One question, will an UT heat pad melt the plastic on the tub?

We will see if that helps. Maybe I'll convert this current enclosure to something for my CWD's!

And she still didn't eat this rat either. He's gonna either go on craigslist or back to petco because he's bullying my hairless rats and lucky #1 & 2.:colbert:

You really need a thermostat or a rheostat for an uth. With out one it could possibly melt a plastic tub. A rheostat is cheap and can be picked up at any home depot, or Lowes. The problem with a rheostat is that you will need to play with it a lot more often.

Yep, a UTH on plastic is fine as long as it's controlled. I have Flexwatt in my racks and I use tubs with no problems.

You can actually pick up a halfway decent thermostat at Petco for around $35. They can also be found all over the internet.

Once you have a way to control your heat, get you a good sized tub, poke a few vent holes in it and you'll be good.

Gale

Ok so as much as I've read about the dangers of heat rocks, along with one of my iguanas came a large supposedly self regulating heat rock. I plugged it in to make sure it works and I can see the little light on the side turn off and on regulating itself. I'll make it to the pet store Sunday due to my work schedule and the fact that where I get all my reptile stuff is 30 miles away.

Will that work temporarily to provide heat? Or are the dangers too great in using it even for two days or so?

PS, this thing is about a foot wide by a foot wide.

I have seen first hand the damage a heat rock can do, so normally that is a big no-no in my book.

Now, a self-regulating heat rock is not something I'm familiar with, so I can't say about that.

Does this thing have a way for you to adjust the temperature it regulates to ? Or is it preset and that's it ? If you can choose the temp it reaches I would think that would be ok as a stop-gap measure. If not, I'd be really leery because iguanas can tolerate much higher temps than balls I'm pretty sure.

To best judge in a pinch, plug it in, wait for it to warm up then lay your hand on it. It should be barely warm or not warm at all to you. If it feels noticeably warm to you, it will be too hot for your ball. Our body temp is 98 or so, but of course your hands are cooler. I find I can sense the warmth in something with my palm starting at around 90-92.

If your snake room is decently warm, even no heat for two days or so won't hurt as long as you don't feed and there is no draft. It's better than a burned ball.

Gale

Ok so I read this and pulled out the heat rock. It was warm to my touch. I cut the cord off the sucker, put it back inside and put a lamp with a ceramic heat emmitter in it over the rock. It made the rock a little warm but I turned it off, figuring residual heat through the night.

I found a rubbermaid storage trunk in my attic, cut a hole in the top and used cable ties to hold mesh on. On that I put the dome lamp with the heat emmitter.

It's what I had around the house :) Tomorrow is petstore day!

And yes it was a pre-set type heat rock. It turned on and off I guess once it reached a certain temp. No more, now it's just a rock LOL

If you don't likePet stores do occasionally stock some of the cheaper thermostats like the ReptiTemp 500r or the Alife 1000, but their retail mark-up is ridiculous. You can get better thermostats at better prices online. Depending on the type and features that you want, they will cost you from about $25-$350. Here are some links, starting with a good basic model up to the top of the line models.

http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-MTPR...1529683&sr=1-7

http://www.reptilebasics.com/thermostats/

http://www.spyderrobotics.com/store/