Mocha & Russo het White Diamond ?

Does anyone know if these to morphs are the same? To me the Latte and the White Diamond look the same.

Nope, different morphs. That's not to say that when bred together they would not make a white snake, I'm not sure about that. Idk if it's even been attempted yet. The mochas are fairly new and proving to make some interesting combinations with other morphs. I am a big fan of the Latte as well, but not a crazy White Diamond fan. One can argue that all white snakes look the same but of course, there is more to it than that. There are several morphs that look similar to others, but it's all about the genetics ;)

They are in the same complex, but not the same morph. google russo ball python and mocha ball python, night and day difference.

A mocha looks kinda like a super low grade mojo to me.

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Originally Posted by MiamiRoyalPythons

Nope, different morphs. That's not to say that when bred together they would not make a white snake, I'm not sure about that. Idk if it's even been attempted yet. The mochas are fairly new and proving to make some interesting combinations with other morphs. I am a big fan of the Latte as well, but not a crazy White Diamond fan. One can argue that all white snakes look the same but of course, there is more to it than that. There are several morphs that look similar to others, but it's all about the genetics ;)

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I don't think all Blue Eyed lucies look the same look at the super mojo. the super lesser, and the white diamond all 3 look different.

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

They are in the same complex, but not the same morph. google russo ball python and mocha ball python, night and day difference.

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I googled them and both look the same to me also both supers look the same.

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Originally Posted by chago11

I googled them and both look the same to me also both supers look the same.

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russo = high gold
mocha = mojoish

are you sure your looking at the right snakes?

White Diamond's make pretty clean whote snakes, except they usually have a yellow stripe down their back.. Latte's, from what I've seen are a dirtier BEL. Together they will produce a mocha x russo BEL. I actually own 2 Mocha's that came from Amir, who proved them out and I will say they have mojo patterns with normal type colors. Both the Russo and Mocha can be mistaken for normals to the untrained eye. The only people I've seen to actually have Mocha's are Amir and Jonathan from Breeder's Circles, which he gets from Amir. Amir's guy up here in Gainesville doesn't even work with Mocha's. That being said, the only Mocha combo's I've seen were owned by Amir or BC's and I haven't seen more than about 3 combos either... I hope to one day come out with a few variations!

So funny that you mentioned that. I'll be bringing home 1.1 Mochas from Jonathan on Saturday. As far as all BELs looking different, that is not always the case. Yes usually the White Diamonds have a yellow stripe and usually the Mojos look a little sooty, but there are certainly plenty of cases of sooty WDs and nice clean Mojos. What I mean is, if you were at a show and happened upon a BEL, I do not think you would purchase it without asking what it was. The few Latte's I've seen at shows are neat to me in that they seem to have a very faint pattern, almost pinkish in coloration. This, to me, doesnt make them dirty, I like it and would rather have a slight variation rather than a snow white snake :) just the way I see things.

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Originally Posted by MiamiRoyalPythons

So funny that you mentioned that. I'll be bringing home 1.1 Mochas from Jonathan on Saturday. As far as all BELs looking different, that is not always the case. Yes usually the White Diamonds have a yellow stripe and usually the Mojos look a little sooty, but there are certainly plenty of cases of sooty WDs and nice clean Mojos. What I mean is, if you were at a show and happened upon a BEL, I do not think you would purchase it without asking what it was. The few Latte's I've seen at shows are neat to me in that they seem to have a very faint pattern, almost pinkish in coloration. This, to me, doesnt make them dirty, I like it and would rather have a slight variation rather than a snow white snake :) just the way I see things.

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By all means you are right, I am not trying to knock you down. But for the most part, Mocha's don't usually produce perfect white snakes, as neither do mojo's. If I was trying to create a perfect white snake (which I am lol) I wouldn't buy a pair of mojo's because I know it's going to be almost impossible to accomplish that. From what I've seen, the most popular way of getting an all white perfect snake is by having a lesser or butter somewhere in there. Russo's do produce extremely clean white snakes, but they almost always tend to develop that yellow stripe. But if it were up to me, I'd have every possible BEL combo possible.

Congrats on getting the Mocha's from Jonathan, I didn't think he had anymore seeing as I picked up my male Mocha a couple weeks ago. Even though he didn't produce these guys, I can vouch for him. He's a good guy. He's also got some beautiful beardies that he did produce. I've actually gotten most my snakes from him, unfortunately I had to rehome a bunch because I moved, but I am starting up again. You should stay in touch now that you are getting into breeding, maybe we can do something in the future. I am slowly but surely starting up my colony again.

Lol I just noticed in my first post I said I got my Mocha's form Amir, and now Im saying I got them from Jonathan. JIC anyone was confused, I got both my Mocha's from Jonathan but he gets them directly from Amir, so techinically speaking they came from Amir but were in Jonathan's hands first.

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Originally Posted by that_dc5

White Diamond's make pretty clean whote snakes, except they usually have a yellow stripe down their back.. Latte's, from what I've seen are a dirtier BEL. Together they will produce a mocha x russo BEL. I actually own 2 Mocha's that came from Amir, who proved them out and I will say they have mojo patterns with normal type colors. Both the Russo and Mocha can be mistaken for normals to the untrained eye. The only people I've seen to actually have Mocha's are Amir and Jonathan from Breeder's Circles, which he gets from Amir. Amir's guy up here in Gainesville doesn't even work with Mocha's. That being said, the only Mocha combo's I've seen were owned by Amir or BC's and I haven't seen more than about 3 combos either... I hope to one day come out with a few variations!

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I am working with The Mocha gene also. Here are a couple of current pictures of the pair of Mocha Yellow Belly’s I picked up from Amir at Daytona this year.

http://www.albeysreptiles.com/images...10_1_800w1.jpg

http://www.albeysreptiles.com/images...10_2_800w1.jpg

Very nice. Amir must be happy you are working with both his genes.

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Originally Posted by that_dc5

By all means you are right, I am not trying to knock you down. But for the most part, Mocha's don't usually produce perfect white snakes, as neither do mojo's. If I was trying to create a perfect white snake (which I am lol) I wouldn't buy a pair of mojo's because I know it's going to be almost impossible to accomplish that. From what I've seen, the most popular way of getting an all white perfect snake is by having a lesser or butter somewhere in there. Russo's do produce extremely clean white snakes, but they almost always tend to develop that yellow stripe. But if it were up to me, I'd have every possible BEL combo possible.

Congrats on getting the Mocha's from Jonathan, I didn't think he had anymore seeing as I picked up my male Mocha a couple weeks ago. Even though he didn't produce these guys, I can vouch for him. He's a good guy. He's also got some beautiful beardies that he did produce. I've actually gotten most my snakes from him, unfortunately I had to rehome a bunch because I moved, but I am starting up again. You should stay in touch now that you are getting into breeding, maybe we can do something in the future. I am slowly but surely starting up my colony again.

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Oh yea, no never thought you were putting the Lattes down at all. Everyone has their own preference with just about every industry, snakes included :) If you are going for that perfect all white BEL, I don't think you could go wrong with a Lesser x Butter combo. If I were to try for an all white snake, that would be the combo I would choose. And Jonathan has been great to work with, a really great guy. My colony is still small as well. I've been in the Leo business for a long time and always wanted to merge into Balls so I'm still building my collection and getting the ball rolling lol no pun intended. Anyways, I will deff keep in touch. Are you in south FL? I look forward to seeing your colony and possibly doing some trades with you in the future :)

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Originally Posted by Albey

I am working with The Mocha gene also. Here are a couple of current pictures of the pair of Mocha Yellow Belly’s I picked up from Amir at Daytona this year.

http://www.albeysreptiles.com/images...10_1_800w1.jpg

http://www.albeysreptiles.com/images...10_2_800w1.jpg

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I love these guys! Please keep us updated as to what comes out of them :D

So... if by chance these snakes produced an Ivory Latte though.. would the snake have blue eyes or black? hmmmm

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Originally Posted by MiamiRoyalPythons

Oh yea, no never thought you were putting the Lattes down at all. Everyone has their own preference with just about every industry, snakes included :) If you are going for that perfect all white BEL, I don't think you could go wrong with a Lesser x Butter combo. If I were to try for an all white snake, that would be the combo I would choose. And Jonathan has been great to work with, a really great guy. My colony is still small as well. I've been in the Leo business for a long time and always wanted to merge into Balls so I'm still building my collection and getting the ball rolling lol no pun intended. Anyways, I will deff keep in touch. Are you in south FL? I look forward to seeing your colony and possibly doing some trades with you in the future :)

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Lesser x butter is probably the best combo, but they sometimes tend to throw out BEL's with bug eyes, but my plan is to get a male lesser and breed him to my mojo, mocha, future lesser, and future russo het.

Im up now in Gainesville now for school, but I go down to Mimai often to visit home. Anyway, definitely keep in touch and lmk what you pick up, we can definitely do some sort of work together in the future. It's also nice to have someone you can go to for help or even a snake loan.

Wow sounds like you will have your hands full of white snakes! Sounds like an awesome project. I'm going to the Fort Lauderdale show on Saturday. I might try to find myself a nice cinny or black pastel female, orrrrrr if I can find one I can afford, a het lav albino female haha. Oh yea, and I'm picking up my mochas and a female het pied from Jonathan there as well lol. Hope to see you at some local shows and what not. I'm all in for snake loans and trades down the road.

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Originally Posted by MiamiRoyalPythons

Wow sounds like you will have your hands full of white snakes! Sounds like an awesome project. I'm going to the Fort Lauderdale show on Saturday. I might try to find myself a nice cinny or black pastel female, orrrrrr if I can find one I can afford, a het lav albino female haha. Oh yea, and I'm picking up my mochas and a female het pied from Jonathan there as well lol. Hope to see you at some local shows and what not. I'm all in for snake loans and trades down the road.

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Good luck! Lmk what you pick up. Glad to have met a new friend.

I have now bred Russo for some years and also have them in combos.
I have stood with mocha from Amir and I have also been with mocha combo, with the same mixture as my russo combo and I can not see forskeld and it's pretty much that can not see.
I would personally say that it is the same morph