New BP: A few questions, plus some news that might interest you.

Hi all of you cool bp-lovers ;)

I'm new to the bp.net community, and had a few questions since I recently purchased a normal "captive hatched" bp from Petsmart ... yes, I know it's better to buy from a reputable breeder than at "Pet(not-always-so)smart" :colbert:, but in all fairness this particular location has a bp-lover who's in charge of reptiles and she seems to know how to care for bp's pretty well.

The closest local breeder that I know of (Chicago Reptile House in Orland Park, IL) is about an hour away and the owner said all of his bp's are breeding right now and he doesn't really have a good selection of bp's for sale at this time. Since I purchased my first bp in the early 90's from the East Bay Vivarium in Berkeley, CA and have had great experience raising a healthy young juvenile bp to about 5.5 ft long, I knew generally what to watch out for when considering a new bp.

Besides, I just couldn't pass up this particular young normal bp Petsmart had named "Honey" because she's got a sweet disposition (extremely docile and friendly, hence my username), plus she's got a lighter color for a normal ball, cool looking jewel-like eyes, and a nice pattern. "She" hasn't been sexed yet so she may in fact be a he - but the name's cool no matter what Honey turns out to be.

Petsmart got her 12/27/10 and they said she was probably hatched in summer. She seems to be a bit thin, weighing in at 110 grams and is about 17-18 inches long. (Note: Petsmart's feeding log shows she ate a F/T mouse every week.)

And that's where I get my questions:

1 - Does this seem to be thinner than one would expect for a bp of this length?

2 - Does it seem likely that she was born last summer?

and,

3 - What age (or length/weight) would it be best to have Honey sexed by a local breeder?

It's nice to note that she's already shed perfectly (1 piece, no eyecaps) and seems well adapted to her new home.

She finally started eating 16 days since her last feeding at Petsmart: 2 f/t fuzzies, one right after the other, but I did have to expose their brains, releasing their scent which finally enticed Honey to strike. A previous attempt to feed had failed - not a single strike - so I took the advice given in another member's post as well as in BP.net's bp caresheet re: waiting a week before trying to feed again and to cut into prey as such - thanks so much!)

My first bp, Regina, was acquired from a breeder's shop and lived in a custom built wooden enclosure with an acrylic window and melanine floor. I used astroturf and a uth and she shed perfectly every time and ate like a champ. Unfortunately, I had to give her back to the shop because I moved to Brazil for a few years.

I'm finding that Honey's enclosure, while not very pretty to look at, is even better: It's a sterlite tub, has cocunut husk substrate (holds moisture/maintains humidity great), 2 identical tight-fitting, one-opening hides (one placed on each side) - and most importantly 3 uth's each individually controlled by Helix thermometers, (81F cool side, 90F warm side, and 80F ambient air temp); ambient air temp is heated by a uth on the outside lid of the tub. A digital temp and humidity gauge is located appropriately in the tub and the temps and humidity are always right where they need to be.

Having 3 proportional thermometers in one enclosure is expensive, but I figure it's a worthwhile investment when spread over many years of enjoyment with a happy and healthy pet. And besides, how else can one be virtually guaranteed the ability to maintain the right temps all of the time without any guess-work and practically no effort? I also love the fact that I was able to place as many holes in the tub as needed to get good air circulation and maintain proper humidity (normally 55%; 60%-65% during shedding) - a quick spray or two (or more when shedding) once a week is all that's needed.

Honey must be happy because I get a warm and friendly reception to handling. I love how she sits with me contently, wraps around my fingers, looks about curiously, but doesn't bolt to find a place to get away and hide. I'll have to update my profile with some pictures of her soon.

BTW, it's worth checking out rickysreptileenclosures.com because he's got some great info & videos on husbandry and he gives a detailed explanation of the criteria used for determining a proper enclosure that mimic's a bp's natural habitat. His info could probably help put to rest much of the debate re: plastic vs. glass enclosures, plus why not to use of heat lamps. His enclosures look great too, but since bp's are not arboreal, I chose a tub and spent what I saved on Helix thermometers.

Thanks for reading, and we want to thank to everyone who took their time to answer our questions. :snake:

I'll let some more experienced breeders answer your first questions, my only ball python I got as a young adult and has been a big girl since! Never had to deal with young/too thin snakes! BUT You can get a snake sexed at any age by a responsible, knowledgeable person.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by purplemuffin

I'll let some more experienced breeders answer your first questions, my only ball python I got as a young adult and has been a big girl since! Never had to deal with young/too thin snakes! BUT You can get a snake sexed at any age by a responsible, knowledgeable person.

---

Thanks, Purplemuffin! :P I figured it was o.k. to have a snake sexed at any age, and was wondering if it's more reliable after they reach sexual maturity.

Love your avatar, btw.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Docile1

And that's where I get my questions:

1 - Does this seem to be thinner than one would expect for a bp of this length?

2 - Does it seem likely that she was born last summer?

and,

3 - What age (or length/weight) would it be best to have Honey sexed by a local breeder?

---

1) How did you measure the length? Is it an actual measurement oran educated guess. I say that because a BP that is 18 inches or so would typically weigh about 300 grams. It is possible that your snake is a bit underweight for that length. However, as long as it is still alive, you can fix that by feeding appropriately sized meals. Underfed snakes can easily catch up when taken care of properly, and will not have an ill effect from it in the future.

2) It is quite possible that she was born last summer. Most balls that end up at large national chains are sold three times by the time they get into your hand. That means the first person selling them (the breeder or African exporter) did not get very much money for it, since the next guy has to make his cut as well. That means it could possibly have been sold for as little as $8-10. It doesn't take long to feed a snake before you have more invested in food than what you profit from it. While this sounds horrible, it is still business. Hence the reason why snakes are way underpriced (this is how the iguana market has been so crazy for many years but that is a discussion that would take too much time). With the above said, many normal BPs are maintenance fed, and remain small for a very long time.

3) I sex our snakes within minutes of hatching. So now is as good as any. However, I would be willing to bet you a femal Ball Python that the snake you got from Pet-Smart is a male.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Docile1

Thanks, Purplemuffin! :P I figured it was o.k. to have a snake sexed at any age, and was wondering if it's more reliable after they reach sexual maturity.

Love your avatar, btw.

---

See above. If it has penes when it is born, it will have penes when it dies (thereby carrying them for it's entire life).

I hope that helps,

Really appreciate the helpful info!

I measured by watching the bp spread out to almost its full length in the tub and then used a measuring tape from head to tail (and double-checked the measurement using reference points within the tub), then added another inch since Honey was almost laying out in a straight line but not quite.

Glad to hear that small snakes can catch up by being fed appropriately without any future ill effects - I knew the bp was thin, but a possible 200 gram difference - wow! Bet you're right about Honey being a male since Petsmart probably gets few females which I would imagine are mostly likely reserved for breeding.

Thanks Again,
Dave

Sounds like a great setup. I wouldnt worry about her size much, just feed her well and she will catch up:)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Johan

Sounds like a great setup. I wouldnt worry about her size much, just feed her well and she will catch up:)

---

Thanks for the compliment on the set up and for your encouragement :D She ate another fuzzy this evening, and although I don't want to 'power-feed', I do want to help her catch up. Do you think it would be o.k. to feed every 4 days for a while, offering 2 fuzzies, then 4 days later 1 fuzzy, then 2 again? Any suggestions?

I go to the East Bay Vivarium all the time for feeders! Small world! You should see it now.. as busy as ever. That place is hard to walk through on the weekends.. they have tons of awesome animals!

Best of luck with Honey.. and I am sure she is going to live the happiest of lives with you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cdavidson9

I go to the East Bay Vivarium all the time for feeders! Small world! You should see it now.. as busy as ever. That place is hard to walk through on the weekends.. they have tons of awesome animals!

Best of luck with Honey.. and I am sure she is going to live the happiest of lives with you.

---

Yeah, I saw EBV's website recently and they look like they're really happenin'. I used to live in Berkeley and Oakland and that's where I got my feeders too. Thanks for the best wishes! :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Docile1

Thanks for the compliment on the set up and for your encouragement :D She ate another fuzzy this evening, and although I don't want to 'power-feed', I do want to help her catch up. Do you think it would be o.k. to feed every 4 days for a while, offering 2 fuzzies, then 4 days later 1 fuzzy, then 2 again? Any suggestions?

---

Maybe you can bump up a food size? are you feeding fuzzy rats or mice? In any case, id just go with 2 every 5 days and see how she puts on weight

I checked out the enclosures that you mentioned. I really like the look of them, but I think it will need more vents, especially in more humid areas. I disagree with a few of his points that he makes in his videos, and it's really obvious he isn't comfortable speaking in front of a camera. He speaks like a robot, LOL.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LizardPants

I checked out the enclosures that you mentioned. I really like the look of them, but I think it will need more vents, especially in more humid areas. I disagree with a few of his points that he makes in his videos, and it's really obvious he isn't comfortable speaking in front of a camera. He speaks like a robot, LOL.

---

Yeah, I bet you're right about needing more ventilation in humid environs. Funny observation ;) and true ... it'd be great if he could present in a more relaxed way 'cause you can tell he really cares a lot about bp husbandry.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Johan

Maybe you can bump up a food size? are you feeding fuzzy rats or mice? In any case, id just go with 2 every 5 days and see how she puts on weight

---

Great suggestion, thanks. Feeding f/t fuzzy mice. I've heard rats provide more nutrition. Do you know if that's true?

Hey, sometimes you can tell which breeders been feeding there balls well. At my local shop they feed all there snakes 1 time every three weeks so maybe petsmart isn't so bad. Either way I'm pretty sure your ball would do better with you.:gj:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KingPythons

Hey, sometimes you can tell which breeders been feeding there balls well. At my local shop they feed all there snakes 1 time every three weeks so maybe petsmart isn't so bad. Either way I'm pretty sure your ball would do better with you.:gj:

---

Yep, seems like maintenance feeding is all one can expect from some breeders. Thanks for the vote of confidence in me being a good care-taker.

BTW, I just visited a local breeder to have a look at their collection and they take great care of their balls ... they're healthy and well-rounded - :O whoops, did I really just say that? Anyway, they care about bp's and their dedication to high quality husbandry shows.

Fuzzy mice aren't big enough. You could be feeding at least hopper mice, (adult mice soon). (or similar sized rat pups.) YOu'd be surprised how big a meal they can eat. I'd shoot for a meal in the 15-20 gram range. It won't hurt to get a few small meals in him first though. :D

By the way, welcome to the community!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by wax32

Fuzzy mice aren't big enough. You could be feeding at least hopper mice, (adult mice soon). (or similar sized rat pups.) YOu'd be surprised how big a meal they can eat. I'd shoot for a meal in the 15-20 gram range. It won't hurt to get a few small meals in him first though. :D

By the way, welcome to the community!

---

Yep, hoping to move up to larger-sized mice asap, but that's been my strategy: just get a few smaller meals in him first. Things have been going good and Honey is starting to eat well so it shouldn't be long. Thanks for the advice.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by muddoc

1) How did you measure the length? Is it an actual measurement oran educated guess. I say that because a BP that is 18 inches or so would typically weigh about 300 grams. It is possible that your snake is a bit underweight for that length. However, as long as it is still alive, you can fix that by feeding appropriately sized meals. Underfed snakes can easily catch up when taken care of properly, and will not have an ill effect from it in the future.

2) It is quite possible that she was born last summer. Most balls that end up at large national chains are sold three times by the time they get into your hand. That means the first person selling them (the breeder or African exporter) did not get very much money for it, since the next guy has to make his cut as well. That means it could possibly have been sold for as little as $8-10. It doesn't take long to feed a snake before you have more invested in food than what you profit from it. While this sounds horrible, it is still business. Hence the reason why snakes are way underpriced (this is how the iguana market has been so crazy for many years but that is a discussion that would take too much time). With the above said, many normal BPs are maintenance fed, and remain small for a very long time.

3) I sex our snakes within minutes of hatching. So now is as good as any. However, I would be willing to bet you a femal Ball Python that the snake you got from Pet-Smart is a male.



See above. If it has penes when it is born, it will have penes when it dies (thereby carrying them for it's entire life).

I hope that helps,

---

Hi Tim,

Had we actually bet I would have won!

I would have thought you'd be right: that Petsmart sells almost all males, however Chicago Reptile House popped my bp last weekend and found out I've got a baby girl! :P

I'm extra happy since now I know her name "Honey" truly fits!

PS - She's eating very well now (small mice) and putting on weight (130 grams up from 108 a few weeks ago).

Thanks again for your advice on bp care.

I am glad to hear that SHE is doing well. The guys at CRH are great, and I would definitely trust their ability to sex your animal.

Yeah, she's thin. I got one from [insert name of reputable breeder] that was 6 months old and thinner than that, and all she's done since I got her is eat. She eats seconds and thirds and sometimes chomps me when I go to take her out of her feeding box because she's hoping my hand is the 4th helping.

Ball pythons can be sexed by a qualified vet or breeder at any age. It's really only tiny babies like green tree python hatchlings that can't be sexed until they're larger.

(Oh--just saw that this is an older thread. Glad she's a girl! Keep feeding her, especially if she acts hungry.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by muddoc

I am glad to hear that SHE is doing well. The guys at CRH are great, and I would definitely trust their ability to sex your animal.

---

Glad to hear that you give CHR a thumbs up :)

They've got lots of nice, healthy normals and morphs, plus they're nice people.

Thanks again!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by loonunit

Yeah, she's thin. I got one from [insert name of reputable breeder] that was 6 months old and thinner than that, and all she's done since I got her is eat. She eats seconds and thirds and sometimes chomps me when I go to take her out of her feeding box because she's hoping my hand is the 4th helping.

Ball pythons can be sexed by a qualified vet or breeder at any age. It's really only tiny babies like green tree python hatchlings that can't be sexed until they're larger.

(Oh--just saw that this is an older thread. Glad she's a girl! Keep feeding her, especially if she acts hungry.)

---

Thanks for the info on sexing young snakes.

Wow ... 3rd's (and ouch:O 4th's ... that really IS a pinky!;)

I was feeding 2 fuzzies at a time a week ago and for the first time moved up to 1 small mouse per feeding - maybe I'll try 2 mice next time :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by muddoc

I am glad to hear that SHE is doing well. The guys at CRH are great, and I would definitely trust their ability to sex your animal.

---

Btw, switched substrate to paper toweling .. cleaning is a breeze and able to maintain belly temps under hides right where they should be - 81F cool-side, 91F warm-side.

My BP seemed a little confused by the paper toweling at first but acclimated within a day. Plus now she's feeding better right in her enclosure and without eating any bark with her meals.

For humidity, made 'humidity boxes' out of 4" round food storage containers - drilled as many holes in lid for good water vapor dissipation and filled with coconut bark, then fill with water, let soak a few minutes, drain and place on warm side of enclosure; humidity stays a 55%-60% for a week straight; during shed add another identical 'humidity box' and levels maintain 65%-70%.

Any feedback on using paper towels as a permanent substrate is appreciated.

There are quite a bit of reputable breeders in the Chicago Land besides Chicago Reptile House. There is Mark Petros, Tom Furr, and Tuning Fork Reptiles are all pretty good breeders out here in the Chicago Land if you ever decide to buy another snake. They are very addictive. 1 never seems to be enough.

Welcome to the community!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dkoehl26

There are quite a bit of reputable breeders in the Chicago Land besides Chicago Reptile House. There is Mark Petros, Tom Furr, and Tuning Fork Reptiles are all pretty good breeders out here in the Chicago Land if you ever decide to buy another snake. They are very addictive. 1 never seems to be enough.

Welcome to the community!!

---

Thanks dkoehl! I probably wouldn't have known about all of these breeders located in my own backyard had you not pointed them out to me. Looks like you have a nice BP collection!