Rat genetics.

Hey guys any1 have some good places to learn rat genetics? Im going to be raising more breeders and breeding more so i wanna start toying with the genetics a bit.

Maybe sometime tomorrow or later tonight i could post some pics of the current ones i have. Not to sure what they are :D

Went ahead and snapped a few pics.

Heres the back of one
http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...1/IMG_0317.jpg

A baby female im raising up
http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...1/IMG_0316.jpg

3 females
http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...1/IMG_0315.jpg

Female in pic before
http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...1/IMG_0314.jpg

Pic of other female
http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...1/IMG_0311.jpg

Not to sure what she is. But we have another one like her thats a male im growing up. Hes sorta tan to. Shes more white with a spot on her nose. Where as hes mostly tan with a bit of white on his back
http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...1/IMG_0330.jpg

Thanks,

Mike

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Originally Posted by BuckeyeBalls

Went ahead and snapped a few pics.

Heres the back of one
http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...1/IMG_0317.jpgNot sure of the pattern but it looks like agouti color

A baby female im raising up
http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...1/IMG_0316.jpgI call these broken stripe hooded

3 females
http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...1/IMG_0315.jpgI love the possum face one, the red eye one I'm confused on as I'm not familiar with a red eyed rat that shows black :confused:

Female in pic before
http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...1/IMG_0314.jpgAdorable, I believe shes a black possum face variberk

Pic of other female
http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...1/IMG_0311.jpgBlue possum face hooded, cute!

Not to sure what she is. But we have another one like her thats a male im growing up. Hes sorta tan to. Shes more white with a spot on her nose. Where as hes mostly tan with a bit of white on his back
http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...1/IMG_0330.jpgThis is a pink eye siamese I believe, the other you describe sounds like a beige rat.

Thanks,

Mike

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Yea the one you said is adorable is the one i COULDN'T gas. My gf said if i gassed her she wants cleaning rats no more. So i had to keep her.

Which works out because i need her as a breeder anyways :rofl:

3 good places for rats related topics

http://www.afrma.org/fancyrm.htm

http://www.ratbehavior.org/rats.html

http://ratguide.com/

I'm pretty sure that the black and white rat in the "3 females" and "female in pic before" pictures is a Roan/Husky

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Originally Posted by CLSpider

I'm pretty sure that the black and white rat in the "3 females" and "female in pic before" pictures is a Roan/Husky

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Thank you, that is a neat trait!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CLSpider

I'm pretty sure that the black and white rat in the "3 females" and "female in pic before" pictures is a Roan/Husky

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Thank you!

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

Thank you, that is a neat trait!

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Yea she was my girlfriends "hold back" i got some new rats in today from a friend. He sold me a few of his female weaner rats for cheap so :D

heres a pic of the only good one i got. Not sure what it is.

http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...1/IMG_0340.jpg

Real wavy hair. Kinda neat :D

You're lucky! I think the Husky rats are gorgeous. I can't find them anywhere though =(
And that new one you have is a rex

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Originally Posted by CLSpider

You're lucky! I think the Husky rats are gorgeous. I can't find them anywhere though =(
And that new one you have is a rex

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Hmm so how do you spot a husky rat? I was gonna feed her off but my gf liked her more than any of the others.

Hmm rex. Not to sure what that is :D Still learning haha :D

Husky/Roan rats are extremely hard to come by in the US, although they are very popular in the UK. Was she born with those markings? Have the markings faded as shes has gotten older?

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Originally Posted by Dexter

Husky/Roan rats are extremely hard to come by in the US, although they are very popular in the UK. Was she born with those markings? Have the markings faded as shes has gotten older?

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Yes she was born with them. No they seem to be the same. I may take pics of her later on.

Im not even really sure who the mom was to the litter. Would have to ask gf. I dont even know how their made. It said recessive. Ill see what 2 rats i had that made her

Ill post some more pics up later

Edit: My gf dk who the mom was. We know who the father was. Cuz hes the only male we got haha. How would we go about producing more of these rats?

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Originally Posted by BuckeyeBalls

Yes she was born with them. No they seem to be the same. I may take pics of her later on.

I'm not even really sure who the mom was to the litter. Would have to ask gf. I don't even know how their made. It said recessive. Ill see what 2 rats i had that made her

Ill post some more pics up later

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If she was Roan/husky the markings would fade. If you don't mind, could I post her pic on a rattie forum I'm on to get some opinions? I'm very interested in her marking as well.

The other girl, with the wedge is a blaze, not possum, possum rats markings start directly behind the ears and all of the face is white. The other is a poor hooded and the tan baby is a rex, possibly Siamese. You will be able to tell after she molts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dexter

If she was Roan/husky the markings would fade. If you don't mind, could I post her pic on a rattie forum I'm on to get some opinions? I'm very interested in her marking as well.

The other girl, with the wedge is a blaze, not possum, possum rats markings start directly behind the ears and all of the face is white. The other is a poor hooded and the tan baby is a rex, possibly Siamese. You will be able to tell after she molts.

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Well idk if her markings faded or not to be 100%

As i said she was just a rat haha. Wasnt into genetics much. I wish i had pics of her as a baby. Yea u can post them i dont mind. I may take a few more pics once the batteries charge. My gf liked her the most out of the litter so we kept her for a breeder female. Shes had them same markings like that since she was about weaner size i know that. Idk about from birth till then.

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Originally Posted by BuckeyeBalls

Edit: My gf dk who the mom was. We know who the father was. Cuz hes the only male we got haha. How would we go about producing more of these rats?

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I wouldn't know, unless you knew who the mother was. You could try breeding her back to the dad, that might give you more like her.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dexter

I wouldn't know, unless you knew who the mother was. You could try breeding her back to the dad, that might give you more like her.

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Yea i wish my gf knew the mom. We only have 5 female rats that bred for us so far. And just the one dad.

I mean daughter to dad should reproduce more like her right? Not to sure about rat genetics here lol. Were just now keeping track of stuff as far as rats go. Before it was throw em in have babies, feed em off.

My girlfriend said she thinks the mom was the all black rat with the white stripe thing on her face. Second pic to the bottom in the first set of pics.

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Originally Posted by BuckeyeBalls

Yea i wish my gf knew the mom. We only have 5 female rats that bred for us so far. And just the one dad.

I mean daughter to dad should reproduce more like her right? Not to sure about rat genetics here lol. Were just now keeping track of stuff as far as rats go. Before it was throw em in have babies, feed em off.

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She could just be a fluke, but I would try breeding her to her dad. Its called line breeding, one of the big pet rat breeder in my area does it to get her blue rats, so you won't get horribly deformed rats.

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Originally Posted by Dexter

She could just be a fluke, but I would try breeding her to her dad. Its called line breeding, one of the big pet rat breeder in my area does it to get her blue rats, so you won't get horribly deformed rats.

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Yea i know about line breeding. I will try to breed her to dad see what comes out. See if we can get more like her. If not maybe she was just different but not genetically different :P

If you get another like her pack her up and ship her my way. lol

Quoted from a response from my thread on Goosemoose.com

"Double odd-eye. It's not common, but it happens. That's why you've got red eyes with black markings. It's got nothing to do with the Red Eyed Devil mutation, since we don't have that here. (referring to a different post in the same thread)

Being a double odd-eye is exactly what it sounds like. Both eyes end up light instead of one dark/one light like in normal odd eyes."



It looks like I will be getting a pair to try to produce this.

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Originally Posted by Dexter

Quoted from a response from my thread on Goosemoose.com

"Double odd-eye. It's not common, but it happens. That's why you've got red eyes with black markings. It's got nothing to do with the Red Eyed Devil mutation, since we don't have that here. (referring to a different post in the same thread)

Being a double odd-eye is exactly what it sounds like. Both eyes end up light instead of one dark/one light like in normal odd eyes."



It looks like I will be getting a pair to try to produce this.

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Ah. Yea iv seen a few rats have red eyes but none have black markings on them i was wondering why that was

Because of the high white factor in her, you do need to watch out for mega colon. She is probably fine, and I really don't think it will do anything to the snakes if fed to them.

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Originally Posted by Dexter

Because of the high white factor in her, you do need to watch out for mega colon. She is probably fine, and I really don't think it will do anything to the snakes if fed to them.

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whats that :O

http://ratguide.com/health/digestive/megacolon.php

I use to be really into the pet rat thing. I kept pet rats for nearly 14 years, so I hope I'm not coming off as pretentious. lol

http://ratguide.com/health/digestive/megacolon.php

The figures and case stories at the bottom of the page helped me understand it a lot.


I use to be really into the pet rat thing. I kept pet rats for nearly 14 years, so I hope I'm not coming off as pretentious. lol

Breeding the high white gene is fine as long as you don't breed them together.
Use a self, Berkshire or a hooded to breed to a rat that carries the high white gene and you'll never throw a mega colon baby.

Thats not true, although it diminishes the chances of MC, it does not eliminate it.

There is a chance that your girl does not carry the MC trait though.

JMO but I'd get rid of all those high white rats, there is no reason to take the chance and possibly breed babies who are going to suffer a horrible death. ESPECIALLY if you can't spot the signs of mega-colon and put them out of their misery ASAP. There have been lots of "breeders" who have tried to make the high white lines free from mega-colon, but they all give up cause they lose too many babies and don't bring their lines any further ahead.

If your just breeding them to immediately pop them in the freezer when their born, go for it, otherwise I'd feed those girls off/keep them as pets and get genetically better females for breeding :colbert:

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Originally Posted by SAMPSON-BP

JMO but I'd get rid of all those high white rats, there is no reason to take the chance and possibly breed babies who are going to suffer a horrible death. ESPECIALLY if you can't spot the signs of mega-colon and put them out of their misery ASAP. There have been lots of "breeders" who have tried to make the high white lines free from mega-colon, but they all give up cause they lose too many babies and don't bring their lines any further ahead.

If your just breeding them to immediately pop them in the freezer when their born, go for it, otherwise I'd feed those girls off/keep them as pets and get genetically better females for breeding :colbert:

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Hmm this is all weird. Because have you ever heard of zucker rats? From what i hear a lot of big breeders breed all white rats to avoid any of them being zucker rats.

Look @ all of rodentpros rats, their all white. Iv never had anything but a white rat come from them.

http://www.redtailboas.com/blogs/boa...rat-issue.html

"All the Rats that appeared to cause the main and most serious problems were all Black or Black and white and larges except 1 case of a medium white rat that was a very thick medium. "

"So from talking with Steph at Tinley Park they will not order anything that's not pure white.With another guy won't mention his name haven't cleared it with him.He will not use anything black or black and white this also includes his mice."

"So I will never order anything but pure white rats and mice from now on."

This is coming from Larry who lost many boas to this kind of thing. Me i keep quite a few boas. So hmm?

Im still not sure how high white rats cause this? And what exactly is high white? Am i looking to breed something with little to no white in them what so ever?

"IF" one knows what they are doing high white genes are NOT an issue.
I have bred hundreds of litters with high white gene females and have never thrown mega colon babies, but I know not to breed high white to high white.

It's not an accident, breed a high white gene to a high white gene and it's risk of mega colon.

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

"IF" one knows what they are doing high white genes are NOT an issue.
I have bred hundreds of litters with high white gene females and have never thrown mega colon babies, but I know not to breed high white to high white.

It's not an accident, breed a high white gene to a high white gene and it's risk of mega colon.

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So if i breed a rat with a high white... To like my all black male... All would be good? Cuz none of my males are white, at all

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Originally Posted by BuckeyeBalls

So if i breed a rat with a high white... To like my all black male... All would be good? Cuz none of my males are white, at all

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The high white gene shows itself by placing white where there normally would never be white.
A black rat that is either a Self(100% Black) or a hooded or a berkshire is fine, as long as it doesn't have white where it should not be.
Head spots of any kind are indicators of the gene also.

This rat has white where it should not be, her blaze and the fact she has white across her back makes her a high white...
She has thrown 3 litters for me so far and all healthy beautiful babies at that.
http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/a...l/PICT3946.jpg

This is a holdover baby from the above females last litter...

He is the first high white male that I've wanted to breed, I will breed him only to hooded or Berkshire or Self females to make some more neat blazes.
http://i915.photobucket.com/albums/a...e/PICT4000.jpg

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So if i breed a rat with a high white... To like my all black male... All would be good? Cuz none of my males are white, at all

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NO, HIGH WHITE BABIES WILL STILL HAPPEN BECUASE HIGH WHITE IS A DOMINANT TRAIT. If it could be avoided by outcrossing these diseases wouldn't exist at all.

http://www.spoiledratten.com/highwhitecont.html


High white rats are different than albino and hooded rats. It's a genetic trait similar to Hirschsprung's Disease in people and lethal white syndrome in overo paint horses, where sections of the intestines do not function, causing blockages unless that section is surgically removed. High white rats usually have wedge shaped blazes on their faces, full white bellies that come up past their belly line, odd-eyes and split caps. It does take a bit of experience to spot high whites sometimes. You are just starting out, and obviously don't have that great of a handle on the genetic factors(no offense intended) so I'd stay away from females like this until you KNOW what your doing. Don't breed any of those females or their offspring, just start with normal hooded, berkshire, self, or albino rats.

These are high whites

http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...1/IMG_0317.jpg

http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...1/IMG_0311.jpg

http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...1/IMG_0314.jpg

These are not

http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...1/IMG_0316.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d5...m/DSC_0342.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d5...s/DSC_0135.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d5...s/P5100017.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d5...s/P7140091.jpg

snakesRkewl, that female looks like a varigated, not a high white. Maybe a reason she hasn't thrown mega-colon babies for you, if i read correctly and that male is her son he may not be high white either, blazes aren't a 100% guarantee they are high white.

Correct, let me re-phrase, any rat that potentially could be a high white IE: has white where it wouldn't normally be, should be considered a high white gene and bred accordingly.

Rats that are produced from a high white to a self, Berkshire or a hooded as far as I know cannot make mega colon.

In general, high white rats (at risk for MC) are said to be white where there isn't supposed to be any. It's a good rule to follow. That being said, there are only a few dominant "spotting" high white lines that are safe and megacolon free. For the most part though, it's the recessive marked rats that are the safe (MC free) lines.

I'd imagine if someone has been working with a line of marked (dalmatian, blazes, etc.) for an extended amount of time and haven't run into any issues, they are either being extremely selective on breeding or they have a low/no risk breeding stock. However, if you are working with risky high white (megacolon afflicted lines), even your selfs, hooded, etc. can carry megacolon.

In this hobby though, it seems hypocritical for me to say someone is wrong for breeding certain colors or certain risky lines. After all, where do they all end up in the end?

I will add that unless you know your rats genetic history and how genetics work with rats, you might want to steer away from possible risks that would make your feeders unhealthy. I would only breed the rats that have unusual white markings to self, hooded, and other low risk individuals. Even though some people see them as nothing but feeders, it can be crushing for your colony.

@ SAMPSON-BP

So your telling me 4 of my 5 breeding females are high white and not to breed em? Yea. Sorry but thats not going to happen. Im just not going to feed my snakes because of some "high white" rats. Wont happen.

Here are the only 2 males i got that breed to my current females.

Sorry the big male does not hold still very well lol

Pic of the first smaller male. Hes all the same color

http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...1/IMG_0346.jpg

Here is the big male whos been breeding all my current females.

http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...1/IMG_0360.jpg

He has a white belly to. Couldnt really get a good shot of it. He wouldnt stop moving haha

http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...1/IMG_0344.jpg

And well these are just some pretty cool pics :D
http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...1/IMG_0347.jpg
http://i1188.photobucket.com/albums/...1/IMG_0355.jpg

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Originally Posted by BuckeyeBalls

@ SAMPSON-BP

So your telling me 4 of my 5 breeding females are high white and not to breed em? Yea. Sorry but thats not going to happen. Im just not going to feed my snakes because of some "high white" rats. Wont happen.

Here are the only 2 males i got that breed to my current females.

Sorry the big male does not hold still very well lol

Pic of the first smaller male. Hes all the same color

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With the two males you have, you should be fine. Looks like a Beige Self and a Mink Berkshire. Neither are high white. As long as you steer clear of breeding two unusually marked white rats together, you'll be good.

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Originally Posted by Michelle.C

With the two males you have, you should be fine. Looks like a Beige Self and a Mink Berkshire. Neither are high white. As long as you steer clear of breeding two unusually marked white rats together, you'll be good.

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Alright will do.

I never knew there were things u couldnt breed together :O

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Originally Posted by BuckeyeBalls

Alright will do.

I never knew there were things u couldnt breed together :O

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It's not a matter of you CAN'T, it's a matter of unknown outcomes if you do. There are dozens of species of animal that have similar problems. To point out a few; Leucistic Carpet Pythons (JagxJag), Blue Merle genes in canines, high white genes in Bull Dogs (can cause deafness), high white genes in horse (very similar to rats), etc. Like I said, it's not a matter of impossibility, there are just certain genes to be weary of. :)

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Originally Posted by Michelle.C

It's not a matter of you CAN'T, it's a matter of unknown outcomes if you do. There are dozens of species of animal that have similar problems. To point out a few; Leucistic Carpet Pythons (JagxJag), Blue Merle genes in canines, high white genes in Bull Dogs (can cause deafness), high white genes in horse (very similar to rats), etc. Like I said, it's not a matter of impossibility, there are just certain genes to be weary of. :)

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So then how do big breeders like rodentpro manage all this? Do they really look into all the rats they throw in a tub to make sure there isnt any high white male being bred to a high white female?

I mean like if you ever seen ralpha davis youtube videos on his rat breeding. He grabs a male... Throws it in a tub. Picks 4-5 females out of a big box.. Throws em in with the male.

So people breeding on a big scale dont watch out for this? They just throw and go so to say?

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Originally Posted by BuckeyeBalls

So then how do big breeders like rodentpro manage all this? Do they really look into all the rats they throw in a tub to make sure there isnt any high white male being bred to a high white female?

I mean like if you ever seen ralpha davis youtube videos on his rat breeding. He grabs a male... Throws it in a tub. Picks 4-5 females out of a big box.. Throws em in with the male.

So people breeding on a big scale dont watch out for this? They just throw and go so to say?

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Like I said previously, if you've been working with a line of rats for an extended period, chances are you are safe to breed those rats without any issues. Unless you've just been being selective about breeding.

But to point out something, I used to order from Rodent Pro and never saw any high whites. They mostly had hooded, self, berkshire, albino, etc. All safe, non-risk animals.

I actually just had to look up Ralph Davis and watch his video, and I also didn't see any high whites in his colony either. Most strict feeder breeders aren't breeding for colors and strictly go for the healthiest producers they can. Some breed dually as a side hobby and dinker with colors though and never have any issues, even working with potentially high white animals. Then again, I've seen some that started out with a few high whites and have megacolon hit and have to replace a majority of their breeders. It's a roll of the dice.

If you are careful and selective, you shouldn't have a problem even from the potentially high whites you have in your colony. I would suggest reading up on genetics though. It will help you identify possible problem animals.

Yea the current 5 females i have my male has been through them all and each one has had at least 2 litters for me.

Except the youngest female in all of the pics, she hasnt been bred yet. Ill make sure i do not breed her to any high white males, Even tho it seems both of my males are not high whites anyways lol!

Seems like there are A LOT to rat genetics. Lucky me to have some "risky" rats to start out with huh :(

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Originally Posted by BuckeyeBalls

Yea the current 5 females i have my male has been through them all and each one has had at least 2 litters for me.

Except the youngest female in all of the pics, she hasnt been bred yet. Ill make sure i do not breed her to any high white males, Even tho it seems both of my males are not high whites anyways lol!

Seems like there are A LOT to rat genetics. Lucky me to have some "risky" rats to start out with huh :(

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I've worked with "risky" lines before too. As long as you are careful, you'll be fine. :)