confusion between a few morphs need visual and verbal help

Okay there are so many great morphs but a few on my mind I cannot tell the real visual difference between others. If possible please tell me the difference and show the difference with a visual picture please.

the first morph is the Vanilla morph. How is it unique looks like a normal to me what on a vanilla makes it a vanilla?

second is a Het. Pied people always say on this het. pied it has nice pied markers what is that?

3rd what is the difference between the morph Sugar and Calico?

4th difference between Mystic and Mojave both look identical to me what is the key feature I am missing?

thanks kindly,

Lance

For het pied the markers may not be 100% accurate, which means some wild types could have the markers and the hets don't have any.

Calico and Sugar are supposed to be in the same genetic makeup, such as butter/lesser.

I thought Mysitcs look more like wild type than a Mojave, no?

Het Pied markers are solid black lines on the sides of a snakes belly. They are usually located towards the snakes tail, but can run the length of the belly. They are not 100% accurate because normals can also have these markings. They are used by breeders to pick out a possible het pied from a het Pied breeding.

Here is an example

http://dailybulldogs.com/balls/pics/dollar_4.jpg

The only way that you can tell with any certainty if an animal is het for pied (or any other recessive trait) is by knowing the genetics of the animals you bred (i.e. if it came from a visual pied and a normal or some other dom/codom parent to a pied). Some people talk about markers like the black "train tracks" that you can see in the above post, and some people believe that another het pied marker is a ring.

The thing with markers is this: not all hets have the markers, and some animals that don't carry the gene can still have the markers. It's not an efficient way of telling the genetics of an animal.

As for the calico/sugar they're supposed to be synonymous like lesser/butter but some say that they're slightly different, it just depends on who you ask.

Here's a picture of a vanilla locked up with a normal... can you see a difference? :D

http://www.metalmonkeyexotics.com/bl...k-20110104.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lance

4th difference between Mystic and Mojave both look identical to me what is the key feature I am missing?

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about 1000 dollars

honestly with the variation that both of them have, i can see how you might not be able to tell the difference with a lot of them. buy from a reputable breeder is the best way.

I think the best way to identify some "subtle" morphs is to look at the details rather then the overall snake. If you know the traits such a morph has it is much easier to identify them rather then just looking at a snake and saying it looks like a normal.

That issues have been on my mind and I have been wanting to get out and ask people but with the vanilla's when there babies they look like normals is there anything that stands out on them as babies from a normal? The whole butter and lesser are the same and sugar and calico are the same is so confusing since they dont' look the same but in a way they do that is something I guess I need to ask and pick peoples brains about more adn more lol.

thanks for the response's everyone

Lance

With the Sugar/Calico and the Lesser/Butter things, both are the same mutations on the same allele--they're just different lines. Although they were probably independent happenings, they're pretty much indistinguishable from each other; if a new line were to come from Africa, it would really be at the importer's or the buyer's discretion to decide which they'd like to call it, but more than likely they couldn't get away with calling it something else. In the case of Lessers and Butters, if it weren't for the original Platty Daddy having another gene affecting it, they might have been called the same thing--but I really don't have the information needed to say that for sure.

Anywho! As for Vanillas, look for a nice head spot, an aberrant pattern, and a generally lighter and more opaque looking color. Vanillas are very variable, but tend to look similar-ish to Fires--though the homozygous versions of both are very different. Fires also tend to have more 'blurring' in their pattern; the usually sharp lines that distinguish pattern seem a bit faded and 'blurry.' That's the best I can describe it using just words.

Cheers,
-Matt

Just to throw some MORE confusion into the mix, there are also two lines of sugars. One that seems to be just another line of calico, and one that has some differences from the calicos. The different line tends to have a black back type of pattern and higher white.

i am just saying.......why is when someone ask what to look for to detect a certain morph the best answer people can come up with is trust who you buy from. we all know how that goes look at chris johnson alot of people trusrted him and that did not go so well. what i am talking about is like the vinilla what trait do you look for ? like the yellow belly has the head marker and the belly. the other morphs that is hard to tell is a fire ,special and the mystic to name a few.

john patino

Well, for me the vanilla in particular I have personal experience with.

Now, I've seen supposed vanillas that I've stared at for an hour or more that I could not say it wasn't normal.

My own personal vanillas, a male and female I acquired at around 160 grams, there was no mistaking them for anything but vanilla. They looked like a normal that had been dipped in bleach, for lack of a better term. Their bodies were light golden brown and their markings were pale sand. They had bright glowing headspots and bright sandy blushing. Now the male we kept, and as he got older his bright colors faded and now he looks more normal than he did as a baby. Which from what I understand is really unusual.

So, if I were in the market for another vanilla, I'd look for that bright wash over the body, the super distinct headspot, and the light blushing. Those would be the keys to finding a vanilla FOR ME.

Gale

There is one good wayto figure out the difference in themystic and mojave...and its the belly. All my mojaves have a real clear belly, but the mystics have pattern and coloration onthe belly, so when they hatch out of the eggs all the mojaves have a super clean and clear bellies and the mystics have pattern, hope this helps.

Interesting stuff all around, I love the vanilla x normal photo and description--that put my own confusion to rest. :) I love any kind of comparison photos!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Matt K

In the case of Lessers and Butters, if it weren't for the original Platty Daddy having another gene affecting it, they might have been called the same thing--but I really don't have the information needed to say that for sure.

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I dont understand this. Ralph named the original "Platty" a platinum. When the first clutch hatched he noticed that none looked like the father and called them lesser platinum. Not butters. I believe it was either NERD or BHB that named theirs butter, correct me if I am wrong here.

Anyone have a good pic of a "ringer" on a het pied? Also.....if a 0.1 is female and a 1.0 is male,....what is a 0.0.1?:confused:

A 0.0.1 is an unsexed.

Here is a possible het pied girl I have high hopes for. She has a little bit of a ringer. I've seen a few het pieds with clean white rings all the way around the back looking almost like low white pieds.

http://snakemorphs.com/images/F08PREM05_belly_med.jpg

Was it the Bells that started butters? Not sure if they had them before the Platy but I suppose if they did and Ralph's import had been just a lesser and not the Platy combo he might have called it a butter. But since Ralph started out with the awesome lesser\\hidden combo it got it’s own name (Platy) and then the single gene offspring got the related name “lesser platy” and didn’t start getting compared to butters until later.