Small Problem

My mom is letting me get a BP for my 18th birthday. The problem? She will not, repeat, will not let me store frozen mice in the freezer. All feeders for it have to be alive. Basically, will feeding live mice be okay as long as I watch closely to make sure my snake isn't harmed by a mouse?

There is no problem feeding live mice/rats as long as you don't leave the rodent in the enclosure unsupervised. There are plenty of posts on this forum about feeding live. Do a little research so that you are comfortable with it. :)

Maybe you could invest in a mini freezer just for that purpose. Otherwise live isn't a huge deal you just can't really buy in bulk.

I've heard the whole "oh, if you watch em reallll close and make sure nothing happens, it's okay to feed live." bull crap a few too many times. I have 3 BPs that have to feed live because no matter what I try they will NOT eat frozen or prekilled..but anyways..I watch very closely every time, and I've had a snake get bit a few times(never anything too graphic and he always recovered in a week or so) but my point is that no matter how close you watch or how quick you think you are, feeding live is never safe, because it just all happens too fast. and thats something that you just have to either be okay with, or when your mom isnt looking bash the mouse/rat on the table to kill it real quick. :rolleyes:

Maybe try talking to the pet shop where you will be getting your live mice from and see if they have frozen feeders available.

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Originally Posted by Powerspythons

I've heard the whole "oh, if you watch em reallll close and make sure nothing happens, it's okay to feed live." bull crap a few too many times. I have 3 BPs that have to feed live because no matter what I try they will NOT eat frozen or prekilled..but anyways..I watch very closely every time, and I've had a snake get bit a few times(never anything too graphic and he always recovered in a week or so) but my point is that no matter how close you watch or how quick you think you are, feeding live is never safe, because it just all happens too fast. and thats something that you just have to either be okay with, or when your mom isnt looking bash the mouse/rat on the table to kill it real quick. :rolleyes:

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I've heard the whole "feeding frozen is the only way if you care about your animals" crap a few too many times. Get over yourself. They are snakes. They are not made of glass. Getting bit lets them know they had a bad strike and how to correct it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding live, except some people are way overprotective.

And, I really don't think you should go behind your mom's back and start bashing their heads around. You have to do it just right to kill the rat anyway. Most likely you are going to end up with a spacing, bleeding rat. Ugh. Gross.

I would do what you have to, but most likely it will be ok to feed live.

The easiest solution is to ask the pet store to pre-kill (euthanize) the feeders for you. I keep frozen in the freezer for my BPs, but I still have a small Rosy Boa which only eats live pinkies. Every once in a while I just get pre-killed when I am there getting the pinkies. The BPs eat them just as easily as frozen.

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Originally Posted by stratus_020202

I've heard the whole "feeding frozen is the only way if you care about your animals" crap a few too many times. Get over yourself. They are snakes. They are not made of glass. Getting bit lets them know they had a bad strike and how to correct it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding live, except some people are way overprotective.

And, I really don't think you should go behind your mom's back and start bashing their heads around. You have to do it just right to kill the rat anyway. Most likely you are going to end up with a spacing, bleeding rat. Ugh. Gross.

I would do what you have to, but most likely it will be ok to feed live.

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Trust me, you don't have to worry about that. I don't like killing and I wouldn't kill a mouse to feed it to a snake anyway. I rather buy them live anyways because the snake gets to hunt like it would in the wild.

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Originally Posted by PastelPython

Trust me, you don't have to worry about that. I don't like killing and I wouldn't kill a mouse to feed it to a snake anyway. I rather buy them live anyways because the snake gets to hunt like it would in the wild.

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My snakes still hunt their frozen prey too.

The "predatory stimulation" theory is something that doesn't need to be experienced. Snakes smell food, they go into feeding mode and they eat. They don't care weather or not the prey is alive at the start of it.

If you dont want mice in your regular freezer there are a few options:

1. invest in a minifreezer or mini fridge. All you need is a 1x1x1 freezer, they make them for college kids.
2. feed live. Snakes have been eating live prey for thousands of years.
3. feed F/T, but pick up your feeders the day you're going to feed.

There are variants, but those are the three basic things I can come up with. Personally? I've got a chest feezer, best 180.00 i ever spent.

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Originally Posted by PastelPython

Trust me, you don't have to worry about that. I don't like killing and I wouldn't kill a mouse to feed it to a snake anyway. I rather buy them live anyways because the snake gets to hunt like it would in the wild.

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Snakes don't really hunt, they're ambush predators. They'll go after it a little bit but they won't go chasing down a rodent in the wild. That would be a sight! :rofl:

These animals are purely instinctual. They are not domesticated. Sometimes they'll get the concept that a rat is already dead and won't waste the energy on constricting, but comes a time when a new live animal appears: instinct will take over and they will kill it.

I know various breeders that feed live to thousands of snakes every day with no serious problems. I've had a snake get bit by a rat before (I don't like to feed adult rats because they tend to be more dangerous and intelligent) but a little neosporin and she was good as new.
Quite honestly, the situations where snakes are killed by rats are because some irresponsible owner left it in over night, or fed something too dangerous to the snake. It's a risk, but not that big of one.

buy a small freezer

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Originally Posted by stratus_020202

I've heard the whole "feeding frozen is the only way if you care about your animals" crap a few too many times. Get over yourself. They are snakes. They are not made of glass. Getting bit lets them know they had a bad strike and how to correct it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding live, except some people are way overprotective.

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Obviously you didnt read my post or you just didnt understand, I never said that feeding live is wrong, and I really never said that frozen is the only way to do it either..especially since I feed live to my snakes all the time.. I just said there is really no absolutely safe way to do it. and you have to be ready for the possibility of something happening. Thats all.

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Originally Posted by Powerspythons

Obviously you didnt read my post or you just didnt understand, I never said that feeding live is wrong, and I really never said that frozen is the only way to do it either..especially since I feed live to my snakes all the time.. I just said there is really no absolutely safe way to do it. and you have to be ready for the possibility of something happening. Thats all.

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Yeah, I'm probably still being defensive after the last "don't feed live" post. I was reading it in a bad tone. Which is hard to figure on a forum. And, I should stress that I don't think there is anything wrong with feeding frozen either. I just think it's a lot of work. And, since all of my snakes were bought as live feeders i've only tried switching a couple times. To no avail. But, everyone should do what works best for them. :)

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Originally Posted by kasmiraross

buy a small freezer

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I can't have frozen mice anywhere in the house. Even if I bought my own freezer, there would be no point in it.

But you can have live? I don't get it...

Feeding live is much less time consuming than feeding F/T..the only advantage to someone that doesn't breed their own feeders is that with F/T you're able to offer a food item any time you need to..where as with live that option requires a little more effort.

Feed them live there's nothing wrong with that..Get you a set of tongs, Present the room, grab the rat at the scruff on the back of the neck and present the item to the snake..don't let go of the rat till it is fully constricted. Keeping control of the rat is the only way I've found to reduce the risk of injury. Does this mean you're never going to see the occasional nip no..But keeping the rat from running up and just biting the fire out of your snake can be avoided.

P.S. 99.995% of the time if the room is properly presented my snakes don't even let me get the tub open good before the are coming out mouth open at anything that is warm and moves..

I don't want to turn this into a F/T vs. live thread, but there are other advantages to F/T.

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Originally Posted by LizardPants

I don't want to turn this into a F/T vs. live thread, but there are other advantages to F/T.

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The advantages are only available if you're able to offer F/T the OP however is not so their two options are #1 Feed live or #2 don't get a snake.

..I offer both live and F/T..

To me the Live V. F/T debate has always been pointless..Do what works for you and your animals..If that means dressing the rats in dresses and high heel shoes so be it..But trying to debate what works in one persons collection vs another is as pointless as debating which angle is the best to view a TV from.

The world Snake World will forever go rounds and rounds trying to convince each other that one way is better than the other, Me I'm going to focus on my snakes and what works for them..

To the OP..I hope you enjoy your new little one and not to worry feeding live isn't going to cause the Robot Nazi Zombie Apocalypse..You'd do fine..

do you guys realize that this is why animals become mean and cage aggressive! not only that your enabling the pyschology of aggression! :) yes im a pysch major.

1 if you feed agressive food they are going to become agressive cause they are afraid of being bit! i would too wouldnt u? ( our hands look like mice! :) in heat anyways :) )

2. feedin in the cage is standard conditioning! door opens food comes in and lets attack before it attacks or im hungry strike! yes reminder food is a huge conditiong agent! ( just ask my cat who hears the pastic to a pack of treats and comes running!)

We need to remember that these animals run on instict and the more we give them reasons to be agressive thats more of a reason for them to be! also feeding in the cage is the equivalent of pavlov dog experiment!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Pavlov
,if you dont know what im refering too check it out!!

Sorry for the tagent!

:snake::snake::snake:

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Originally Posted by jager08

do you guys realize that this is why animals become mean and cage aggressive! not only that your enabling the pyschology of aggression! :) yes im a pysch major.

1 if you feed agressive food they are going to become agressive cause they are afraid of being bit! i would too wouldnt u? ( our hands look like mice! :) in heat anyways :) )

2. feedin in the cage is standard conditioning! door opens food comes in and lets attack before it attacks or im hungry strike! yes reminder food is a huge conditiong agent! ( just ask my cat who hears the pastic to a pack of treats and comes running!)

We need to remember that these animals run on instict and the more we give them reasons to be agressive thats more of a reason for them to be! also feeding in the cage is the equivalent of pavlov dog experiment!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Pavlov
,if you dont know what im refering too check it out!!

Sorry for the tagent!

:snake::snake::snake:

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LOL :rofl::rofl::rofl:

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Originally Posted by jager08

do you guys realize that this is why animals become mean and cage aggressive! not only that your enabling the pyschology of aggression! :) yes im a pysch major.

1 if you feed agressive food they are going to become agressive cause they are afraid of being bit! i would too wouldnt u? ( our hands look like mice! :) in heat anyways :) )

2. feedin in the cage is standard conditioning! door opens food comes in and lets attack before it attacks or im hungry strike! yes reminder food is a huge conditiong agent! ( just ask my cat who hears the pastic to a pack of treats and comes running!)

We need to remember that these animals run on instict and the more we give them reasons to be agressive thats more of a reason for them to be! also feeding in the cage is the equivalent of pavlov dog experiment!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Pavlov
,if you dont know what im refering too check it out!!

Sorry for the tagent!

:snake::snake::snake:

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:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:
:weirdface:weirdface:

Um.....no....just....no.

I'm sorry but feeding live does not make an animal any more aggressive than if they were eating a hotdog. That goes for snakes as well as many mammals. There is a difference between a feeding response and aggression. What you may be taking for aggression is simply a feeding response. I keep my snakes in the same room as my rats. I feed a combination of live and f/t, depending on which I can get a hold of. Not a single snake in my collection could be considered aggressive due to feeding live food. Not a single one. The only snake I have to worry about flying out of her tub is my boa, who has an amazing feeding response. She's not aggressive. She's just hungry and honestly, she's the one snake that gets only f/t. Explain that one to me. She's the one snake I do not feed live to and she's the one with the biggest feeding response, which you might misunderstand as "aggression". All of my snakes that occasionally get live are completely fine with being handled and having my hands in their tubs.

Another point about aggression in response to feeding live. I have 3 ferrets. Each ferret can easily hunt down and kill a live rodent within seconds. They are little killing machines if I let them and soon when I have enough room I'm going to expand my rodent breeding so that I may offer them a whole prey diet instead of pellets. A few times a week they will get live food. I have done this many times before. Yet, my ferrets are still the cuddly little monsters they've always been. Hunting and eating live prey has not made them more aggressive in the slightest.

To the OP,

You could feed live which is not a problem at all. Just make sure to supervise every feeding. Never leave a live rodent with your snake without supervision. If you are worried about bites, have your feeding tongs ready to stick in the rodents mouth. The rodent will bite down on the tong's end instead of your snake. I've had to do this a few times and I've never had any issues with feeding live.

You could feed f/t. Just get your feeders the day you are feeding. Thaw it out and you're ready to go. Congrats on getting a new snake! :D

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Originally Posted by jager08

do you guys realize that this is why animals become mean and cage aggressive! not only that your enabling the pyschology of aggression! :) yes im a pysch major.

1 if you feed agressive food they are going to become agressive cause they are afraid of being bit! i would too wouldnt u? ( our hands look like mice! :) in heat anyways :) )

2. feedin in the cage is standard conditioning! door opens food comes in and lets attack before it attacks or im hungry strike! yes reminder food is a huge conditiong agent! ( just ask my cat who hears the pastic to a pack of treats and comes running!)

We need to remember that these animals run on instict and the more we give them reasons to be agressive thats more of a reason for them to be! also feeding in the cage is the equivalent of pavlov dog experiment!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Pavlov
,if you dont know what im refering too check it out!!

Sorry for the tagent!

:snake::snake::snake:

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:weirdface :weirdface

Anyone ever wonder where misinformed people come from? You don't happen to work at a pet store do you?

All kidding aside. Lets review your statement.

1. Ball pythons are not aggressive. They are a defensive snake. When they get startled they ball up (Ball Python). Our hands and fingers are not even close to a rodents heat signature. The only ones who are confused are young ones. And, only because they still have the instinct of not knowing when the next meal will come. So, they will snap at anything warm. Rodents have a much higher heat signature than us, and a totally different scent that balls can detect. That puts them in feed mode.

2. This doesn't make any sense at all. Your cat is smart, that's why it conditions so well. Snakes, not so much. And, if you try and open the cage every once in a while, they will learn not everything that comes in is food. Like I said before, it's the scent of the rat that puts them into food mode. Even that sometimes takes a while.

3. Yeah, see above post.

Um. What's a tagent? If your a psych major, you need to learn not every animal learns the same way as others. There are different levels of intelligence.

You've already gotten plenty of advice so I'll just give my two cents. Buy the amount of frozen mice/rats you need for that day, thaw it, and feed your snake. If you don't want to do that, then buy live. I feed solely live because I just don't want to deal with f/t, I think it's a real pain in the butt when you have a bunch of snakes and half of them aren't interested in f/t and waste it.

I've only had one semi serious injury from feeding live and it was feeding off a medium sized rat. The bp bleed a bit, but healed within a day or two on clean newspaper. Serious wounds can happen, even if you are watching the snake/rodent, but it doesn't happen that often. Just don't leave the rodent in the cage all day or night, that's when your snake is at risk of being chewed to death. I only leave them in for 10-30 minutes unsupervised if I have a shy snake, but I know the rat is well fed and watered before putting them in.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jager08

do you guys realize that this is why animals become mean and cage aggressive! not only that your enabling the pyschology of aggression! :) yes im a pysch major.

1 if you feed agressive food they are going to become agressive cause they are afraid of being bit! i would too wouldnt u? ( our hands look like mice! :) in heat anyways :) )

2. feedin in the cage is standard conditioning! door opens food comes in and lets attack before it attacks or im hungry strike! yes reminder food is a huge conditiong agent! ( just ask my cat who hears the pastic to a pack of treats and comes running!)

We need to remember that these animals run on instict and the more we give them reasons to be agressive thats more of a reason for them to be! also feeding in the cage is the equivalent of pavlov dog experiment!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Pavlov
,if you dont know what im refering too check it out!!

Sorry for the tagent!

:snake::snake::snake:

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Oh dear... BPs are not aggressive, so they cannot be 'trained' to be aggressive. I get that you are a psych major, I'm a graduated sociology major, but I'm not about to discuss BPs in relation to their environmental and social influences. They are dumb! There's no two ways about it, if you wanted a smart pet get a dog. I feed almost solely live, the snakes share the snake room with my 90+ colony of rats, and I can open the cage and pull them out any time I want without getting bit. If BPs became aggressive because they are introduced to aggressive rodents why do they let rodents eat them alive???
http://www.deviantconstrictors.com/i...feed-live1.jpg
http://www.flickr.com/photos/olathea...al/4725853770/

Sooo, if feeding live causes aggression in animals, why aren't there packs of ferocious killer tabby cats everywhere ? :confused:

While feral cats do exist, they are NOT usually aggressive to humans, on the contrary, they take care to avoid humans at all costs. Do you have any idea how many live animals a colony of feral cats consumes in a day ?

Even the most pampered and well fed domestic cat will hunt and kill, often just for the sake of killing. But I don't see people running around worrying their aggressive pet cat is going to eat their face in the night.

The idea that feeding live causes aggression and feeding dead doesn't is manure, I don't care if your a psych major or not it's still manure. If a poorly trained dog threatens anyone who comes near it, does that mean it's eating live, because that makes as much sense as what you're saying.

For crying out loud, your mouth waters every time you smell popcorn even if you just ate, does that mean your going to attack the popcorn vendor ?

For someone who's trying so hard to be smart, you sure are dumb.

Gale

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Originally Posted by jager08

do you guys realize that this is why animals become mean and cage aggressive! not only that your enabling the pyschology of aggression! :) yes im a pysch major.

1 if you feed agressive food they are going to become agressive cause they are afraid of being bit! i would too wouldnt u? ( our hands look like mice! :) in heat anyways :) )

2. feedin in the cage is standard conditioning! door opens food comes in and lets attack before it attacks or im hungry strike! yes reminder food is a huge conditiong agent! ( just ask my cat who hears the pastic to a pack of treats and comes running!)

We need to remember that these animals run on instict and the more we give them reasons to be agressive thats more of a reason for them to be! also feeding in the cage is the equivalent of pavlov dog experiment!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Pavlov
,if you dont know what im refering too check it out!!

Sorry for the tagent!

:snake::snake::snake:

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You give psych majors a bad name jager!

Make sure you study hard... you need it to graduate.

P.S. Snakes are not humans. Try taking reptile psychology classes... or you can just go learn it from the ones who own a bunch of them for years. They offer you the information for free.

P.P.S. I'm a computer programmer - so, thinking of it logically... if a ball python gets aggressive because they are afraid of getting bit, then it follows that they will become more aggressive if you pick them up because they are afraid of you eating them. So... never mind rats, humans are much bigger and meaner!

I like Psych majors... :] they take a psych class and suddenly rule the roost intellectually.

Deeefinitely a difference between Psych MAJOR and someone with a DEGREE. (I will admit, I sort of went through this phase with bio until I realized there is no way in hell I'll ever know everything there is to know!)

OP-
Like everyone else said, don't fret about live too much. Especially with a young snake! Who knows, maybe by the time your BP will be chomping down some big, mean rats you'll be free of your mum's house and can get F/T to your heart's desire!

All that aside- good luck, and congrats on your soon-to-be first! <3

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Originally Posted by jager08

We need to remember that these animals run on instict and the more we give them reasons to be agressive thats more of a reason for them to be! also feeding in the cage is the equivalent of pavlov dog experiment!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Pavlov
,if you dont know what im refering too check it out!!



:snake::snake::snake:

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Sorry, come at me with a reputable source, and maybe then I'll consider reading what you have to say. It doesn't matter what subject you're talking about, to use wikipedia is a big NO NO in college and research. It may have the same information word for word as the world's most scholarly site, but your professor (a good ones anyways!) won't even give you the time of day if you use wikipedia as a source for anything.