What would you do with $10K?

Hey guys. Newbie here. Well, not really. I've been a BP owner for nearly a decade now, and I've been following the morph industry off and on throughout that time. However, I've never owned a morph and I've never done any breeding. That being said, I've decided to invest some cash into some morphs to breed. While researching which ones I want, I thought it might be fun to start a discussion about what you would buy if you were starting out and had $10k, along with the following goals/guidelines:

1. The investment should pay for itself within 5 years. Not looking to make this a job, but putting all money above and beyond the initial investment back into the snakes.

2. Looking towards more exotic mixes. Few or no single gene snakes here. I don't want to be producing snakes everyone and their mother is producing. Also want to avoid most recessive genes for now. I'd like to avoid hatching normal looking babies.

3. Must keep the number of snakes under 20, preferably closer to 15.

So how about it, which morphs would you go with and why? I love these snakes and the idea of producing some of the amazing morphs that are out there is extremely exciting. I'm looking forward to getting started.

I know ultimately what I buy will be a reflection of what morphs I want to end up with, but I'd like to hear what you guys would do. Me personally, I love the white snakes, so a BEL and some Lessers are definitely on my list already. :)

If you give me $10K I'm buying a couple superconda western hognoses to start a project with.

I take paypal...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jmhnc

1. The investment should pay for itself within 5 years. Not looking to make this a job, but putting all money above and beyond the initial investment back into the snakes.
Then I suggest that you pick up a US savings bond that’s the only way you’re guaranteed to get your money back in 5 yrs.

2. Looking towards more exotic mixes. Few or no single gene snakes here. I don't want to be producing snakes everyone and their mother is producing. Also want to avoid most recessive genes for now. I'd like to avoid hatching normal looking babies.
Less common double gene morphs even some of the more common ones can run you 3-5k each easy and with not wanting to produce normals you’re going to want a super double gene which will run you even more. With thinking about the money only recessive genes hold their value longer than most co-doms .

3. Must keep the number of snakes under 20, preferably closer to 15.
With what you’re looking to spend and wanting to get you’re looking at closer to 2-3 snakes.

---

I understand there are no guarantees. If I have beautiful snakes, I don't really care if I don't make back 100% within 5 years. My point was that I don't want to merely be producing a bunch of $50-300 snakes.

I know that $10k won't get me into the upper levels. I'm also not comfortable spending much more than $2k on a single snake. Ideally, I'll have a few males that have 3-4 different dominant or co-dominant genes and a few females for each male that have 2-3 codom genes. Right now I'm more interested in producing really cool looking snakes. Perhaps after a breeding season or two, I'll look into some recessive genes... although I really like the look of albinos, so I might pick up a male.

Anyway, I was just trying to get opinions on snakes. If you had $10k to spend and wanted a wide variety of non-normal babies in 3 years, what would you buy?

I would probly go with an albino and pinstripe pied project. So I would go with a male pied and a female albino and pin. Het pied. Then a BEL male with a few lesser girls. Then if I had some left I would get a male bumble bee to through with the lesser aswell to try for lesser bees.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

Are you talking about 10k on just the snakes or racks incubator etc included?

Where are you? I have the same thoughts, maybe we can partner.

$10k just on snakes.

mc5guy, I'm in NC, but I don't think I'd want to partner with anyone. That might put too much stress on me.

With 10000 today I would get

Tiger Male

Pastel Enchi Female

Spinner Female

Pied Female

Clown Female

Use the rest for supply and put money aside in the event of a problem.

Just remember this are animals you are dealing.

Because invest $10000 today does not mean you will make it back in 5 years.

Many things can happen, animal not eating and not being up to size,animal not wanting to breed, bad odds, slugs, price drop etc

Tiger male
Pastel Enchi female
Spinner female
Pied Female
Clown female

These look like a good group, I would toss in several single codom females also pastels black pastels pinstripes yellow belly enchi and another male for backup. Maybe a pied or lavander.

this is what i would get.

go for a humblebee male breed them to female ghosts, pastel ghosts, or whatever kind of ghost you want.
you'll get ghosts, spider ghosts, hypo ghosts, more humblebees, hypo super pastels and, your target, super humblebees.
(i really think this option is cool because you can't get any normals as long as you DO NOT breed a HET ghost to the humblebee male)
OR
you can get a queen bee male and try breeding that to pastels, super pastels, lessers, or super lessers
for super pastel female
you'll get pastels, bumblebees, super pastels, lessers, queens, lesser super pastels, killer bees, and maybe a five gene animal.
for super lesser female
you'll get lesser bees, lesser pastels, supers lessers, queens, i think killer queens(i might be wrong)
OR
spinner blast male and breed to pastels or super pastels
you'll get pastels, bumblebees, lemon blasts, super pastels, killer bees, killer blasts, spinner blasts, AND the super spinner blasts
OR
super lesser male and breed to a bunch of lesser females or more super lessers.
basically you're trying to make a bunch of white snakes with this option.

and you can do any combination of the above. but seriously breed what YOU like. i want to breed these guys not for the money but because i absolutely love the morphs.
most of your offspring are going to be top dollar morphs. i think you would make your money back, minus time, energy, and maintenance fees, pretty quickly.

p.s. if you use the not super form of the females i listed you will produce normals.

:banana:I'd put a down payment on a house

Brian from BHB did a snakebytes episode on this topic. You can see about finding it onhttp://www.bhbreptiles.com. I don't really remember the name of the episode, but it was pretty good. :gj:

hmmm if u want to make ur money back in 5 years ur best bet would be to buy only 2 or 3 Super Duper high end male morphs and the rest would all be Normal Females or Pastel Females that way u can have alot of production of those high end morphs

If I had 10K free I would invest 7K and only do 3K on snakes. I've kept my snake expenses under 2.5K(this is my first year) and I have 13 snakes(soon to be 16), DIY Racks, thermostats, and a small feeder rat colony.

What I would do with 10k=TOP SECRET ;)

lol really though I would do something you like, and I wouldn't spend it all at once, maybe open a "snake account" with the money you wanna spend on snakes, and buy few now, sit on them a little while, buy a few more so on and so on. That way you have room to change your mind on projects.

Do it for passion, not for profit; you'll have a much more enjoyable time if you treat the hobby less like a money pit/tree and more like a research lab.

That said, I'd start an axanthic queen mojave bee project of some sort, and probably get a retic for a companion animal. The resulting "not what I was going for" crosses would be interesting and profitable in some small way, I'm sure, but I'd rather trade them straight across for other animals that would further my breeding goals. And that's what it's all about, YOUR breeding goals. If you just want white snakes and want to skip the recessive genes, get a pair each of mojaves and lessers...between the four of them, you'll produce a fair amount of blue-eyed leucistic animals, and can breed the resultant BELs of both types to keep producing them, as mojave and lesser share the same space in the genome.

(someone correct me if I'm mistaken here)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by BbyBoa

lol really though I would do something you like, and I wouldn't spend it all at once, maybe open a "snake account" with the money you wanna spend on snakes, and buy few now, sit on them a little while, buy a few more so on and so on. That way you have room to change your mind on projects.

---

x2. I do this to fund my track/weekend car enthusiasm, and it works amazingly well. I should probably start a snake account as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Domepiece

:banana:I'd put a down payment on a house

---

x2 or I would do the snake account or have a spread sheet. also go and look up prices see what snakes you like or dont like.

Guys, this is disposable income. I already have a house, a retirement fund, college money for the kids and savings. I make pretty good money with my day job. My goal in all of this isn't to make money, and I'm not being irresponsible.

Like I've said, I've been a BP owner for nearly a decade. I love these snakes, and I absolutely love the variety of morphs that are available. However, if given a choice, I'd rather have the snakes with multiple genes. Like all of you, I would love to produce the snakes that the big guys are producing, but I'm not willing to invest *that* much money in what will hopefully end up being a hobby that simply pays for itself. My ultimate goal is the satisfaction of accomplishing successful breeding, along with being able to own the various morphs I desire.

Think of my question as, if I were to hand you $10k and tell you that you have to spend all of it on ball python morphs, along with my list of goals and criteria, what would you buy?

Thanks for all the responses! I'm getting close to deciding what I'm going to go with.

I stand by my previous post. I'd get myself a female killer bee and super pastel, and a male axanthic spider, probably a lesser mojave as well.

I'd still buy the reticulated python, too. Way too gorgeous and intelligent to pass up, and I think it would all clock in under 10k.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jmhnc

Guys, this is disposable income. I already have a house, a retirement fund, college money for the kids and savings. I make pretty good money with my day job. My goal in all of this isn't to make money, and I'm not being irresponsible.

Like I've said, I've been a BP owner for nearly a decade. I love these snakes, and I absolutely love the variety of morphs that are available. However, if given a choice, I'd rather have the snakes with multiple genes. Like all of you, I would love to produce the snakes that the big guys are producing, but I'm not willing to invest *that* much money in what will hopefully end up being a hobby that simply pays for itself. My ultimate goal is the satisfaction of accomplishing successful breeding, along with being able to own the various morphs I desire.

Think of my question as, if I were to hand you $10k and tell you that you have to spend all of it on ball python morphs, along with my list of goals and criteria, what would you buy?

Thanks for all the responses! I'm getting close to deciding what I'm going to go with.

---

I see what your saying that it is disposable, even if you were bill gates and wanted to get into Morphs, I still wouldn't spend it all at once. I mean if you wanted a 10k animal that would be a different story. Since your trying to spread 10k out, I would seriously not advise spending it all at once on bulk animals.

I would probably buy a Lavender male and three Het females, of the three, one or two might be like Spider Het Lav or Cinn Het Lav, and then I would buy a Calico female and a Champagne male...and maybe a couple of Pastel or Hypo females...and maybe make the Champagne male a Het Hypo....

Dave

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKJfxcnH-kM Heres that Snake Bytes vid...Not sure if im allowed to post this or not but oh well and a nice outlook .

$10,000 Crack Party!!!




*disclaimer* crack is whack and this was a joke

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jmhnc

I know that $10k won't get me into the upper levels. I'm also not comfortable spending much more than $2k on a single snake. Ideally, I'll have a few males that have 3-4 different dominant or co-dominant genes and a few females for each male that have 2-3 codom genes.

---

Gonna be tough on only 10k! 3-4 gene snakes aren't cheap.

I'd do something like this...

males: super fire, super mojave, ivory, super pastel, super cinnamon (all super males) ~ 4-5k

females: double gene snakes featuring combinations of the genes the males have: firefly, pewter, firemon, pastave, pastel yellowbelly, etc.


Depending on your crosses you won't make a lot of normals. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mgt1216

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aKJfxcnH-kM Heres that Snake Bytes vid...Not sure if im allowed to post this or not but oh well and a nice outlook .

---

I loved the video:)

If i had 10k i would buy 0.1 lavender 0.1 clown 1.1 pastel enchi 0.1 BEL 0.1 superstripe

I would buy a piebald pair, and some wild colorations to mix in with them later, like Killer Bee or Lemon Blast.

Granted, I would need a pair of opposite sex Killer Bee or Lemon Blasts and a pair of opposite sex Piebalds, just to increase my possibilities. So I could hatch a Killer Bee Piebald or Lemon Blast Piebald in around two or three years.

I would get the following:

Males:
Pastel Butter - $800
Firefly - $1200
Clown - $1500

total: $3500

Females:

Pastel Breeder size 1000 grams + (2) - $1400
Fire Female (as big as you can find - for this example say 500+ grams) $600
Clown Female - $2250
Pastel het clown - $700 (2010 animal)
Butter Female (09 or earlier - big as you can find) -$1200-$1500


That's it! 9 snakes - some for short term projects and some for long term. You can make a bunch of cool combos with this type of mix and inject some clown down the road into everything you do on the co-dom side to increase coolness and value. You can get your money back in your 5 years (hopefully) and have some really cool snakes and projects to work with that you'll hopefully love.

Of course, work with what you like and mix it in. If you love the spider pattern, go with a fire spider male and scrap the firefly. I tried to pick snakes that are also pretty readily available, so you're not shooting for a rare combo that you can't find.

Let us know what you decide to do and good luck!

Jim

this is my same problem. i dont know if i want a triple or quad power house... fire pewter pin... to put with a buddies emperor pin or start a tripple het project clown caramel glow or snow clown or caramel glow super stripe IT ALL SOUNDS SO DAMN GOOD!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bleakvoid

Do it for passion, not for profit; you'll have a much more enjoyable time if you treat the hobby less like a money pit/tree and more like a research lab.

That said, I'd start an axanthic queen mojave bee project of some sort, and probably get a retic for a companion animal. The resulting "not what I was going for" crosses would be interesting and profitable in some small way, I'm sure, but I'd rather trade them straight across for other animals that would further my breeding goals. And that's what it's all about, YOUR breeding goals. If you just want white snakes and want to skip the recessive genes, get a pair each of mojaves and lessers...between the four of them, you'll produce a fair amount of blue-eyed leucistic animals, and can breed the resultant BELs of both types to keep producing them, as mojave and lesser share the same space in the genome.

(someone correct me if I'm mistaken here)




x2. I do this to fund my track/weekend car enthusiasm, and it works amazingly well. I should probably start a snake account as well.

---

you realize the lesser and mojave would react and youd get a bel with maybe a tiny influence from the axanthic, but the rest wouldnt even be noticable right?

With 10K, if your seriously wanting to get into the Biz, I would dedicate a spot in my house/garage and start buying Racks (Good Racks!!), set up an Incubator room, buy all your supplies: tubs, bowls, bedding, cleaners, disinfectants, etc...
That 10K wont go as far as you think;)

Thanks for the continued posts! It's interesting to see what you guys would do. For me, I've got my list just about finished. I'll be sure to post when I'm certain or when I start buying. :)

I do some woodworking, so I plan on making my own racks with lumber I already have on hand. I have a bunch of bins, hides, heat tape, water bowls and other supplies on the way. I plan on buying all babies (2010, 2011), so an incubator is still a couple years away.

Upkeep and emergency expenses aren't a problem. I'm setting my budget because my wife would KILL me if I spent much more than that on snakes. She'll understand upkeep costs to keep these little guys alive.

Breeding for profit/investment is all about who are you going to be breeding for?

The casual snake owner and even small time breeders cant afford to go out and spend much over or even $500 for a snake. Knowing this i would keep my breeding selection strickly based on this demographic. Maybe focus on breeding very high quality of specific single gene morphs. The better they look, the easier they become to sell. Consistent pattern, bright colors, obviously healthy snakes will make selling the snakes much much easier and more desirable to have. There really is no need to spend $10k on these snakes to start making profit back. It just takes patience and careful selection of your breeders. I would start small focusing on the general snake public and then as my name got bigger, i would move up with only a select couple double or triple gene morphs. Start small and grow from there. You dont dump tons of money in the stock market without testing the waters first, right?

I know you mentioned that you've owned a BP for over a decade, but have you only owned a single BP?

Going from 1 snake to 10+ snakes is going to be a lot of work. As mentioned above, start with a manageable number of snakes. Once you've gotten used to caring for a few, start adding, meticulously. Choose what you like and shoot for that, not what's going to make you your money back. (IMHO)

You could have the best 10-20 snakes in the world, but if they're not healthy, it doesn't matter. You also want to consider your personal life...I'm lucky, my significant other is just as dedicated to taking care of our snakes as I am.

Keep us updated!

super stripe male
breed-able yellowbelly female
lavender female.

make your money back with the super stripe babies and then bring lavender into the mix when old enough

If i had 10k to spend in just sankes this is what i would do...

1 male Lavender Albino 3k
2 female Het Lavender Albino $600-800 each
10 proven breeder normal girls $50-80 each (package pricing)

2 powerhouse males of your choice.

killer bee $1,250
queen bee $2,500
spinner blast $2,000
emperor pin $2,500
ect ect......

Next year you can start making money back from breeding your powerhouse males to norm females. You will be able to hold back what you want from your offsring to grow your collection from their.

I would do something the same like mrobert875, but still a bit different.
I`m actually considering to get a loan so I can start a project for myself as well. In stead of $ 10.000, I will have € 15.000 (the amount of the loan) to spend.
I made a whole lot of calculations and now I`m seriously thinking of starting the project this year.
My money would be spend this way:
€ 6.000 - for supplies (racks/tubs/incubator/hides/waterbowls/heating/thermostats/feeding for 1 year/electricity for 1 year/etc/etc)
€ 1.800 - 1.0 Queenbee '10
€ 1.900 - 1.0 Pastel Calico '10
€ 1.790 - 1.0 Mystic '10
€ 1.800 - 0.9 Normal adults (maximum price)
€ 650 - 0.2 Granit adults
€ 350 - 0.1 Pastel adult

I will give every male 4 females and when I took an average of 4 eggs in 1 clutch, and if I take the average price of the possible outcome, I would be able to pay of the loan and make profit as well after just one year!
So it really is possible to start a breeding project which would give you a lot of money as well ;)