Here they are more Thyssa pics......DUW

Her favorite hang out....only second to the bookcase!!

http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/a...thyssa2027.jpg
http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/a...thyssa2023.jpg
check out those nails....and those are trimmed and filed.
http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/a...thyssa2022.jpg
http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/a...thyssa2032.jpg

In the bathroom...something about my reptiles...they sure do like to look at themselves in the mirror
http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/a...thyssa2021.jpg

under the bed
http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/a...thyssa2015.jpg
out from under the bed
http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/a...thyssa2016.jpg
on the bed
http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/a...thyssa2006.jpg

busted and trying to take off
http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/a...thyssa2007.jpg

And now she is taking off to see what type of trouble she can get in out in the theater room. Which is usually trying to see Betty the Blue tongue skink. :colbert:
http://i936.photobucket.com/albums/a...thyssa2019.jpg

All in all she is doing well...but wow has a mind of her own and DO NOT tell her she cannot go someplace!!! I look like a meth freak right now as I have so many cuts on my hands and arms from her nails and my iggy's nails. Might have to invest in some gloves...lol:rolleyes:

OMG she looks so big in that last picture, she really isn't...lol. Also and I will have to get a pic of this, she loves her baths everyday and her favorite thing is to leave the water running and she swims over and puts her head under it then swims to the end of the tub. She does this over and over for about 10 minutes then she lets ya know when she is done.

Not sure if this got lost in the shuffle of everything going on yesterday. Didn't want you to miss her cute lil mug!

Very nice pics! I wish my Blue tail was that well behaved!

She is such a cutie!! Def on my list in the future, but that is about 15 years away ( want My hubby out of the military so I can build a custom cage I dont have to worry about moving :) ) Good to see her settling in so well :)

What a cool little gal! Looks like she doesn't stay in one place to long :) Do they like to bask in the sun? She seems to be enjoying it.

Very cool monitor!! Looks like she is enjoying run of her home (your former home).

Thanks for the pics Michelle!

She looks so happy, she must love it at her new home.
She's awsome, makes me want to get a monitor. This is the start to the Thysaa stories that are soon to come :P

I think she's adorable and I'm sure you will take excellent care of her. Monitors always cause a riot here but no one can learn without constructive criticism. Considering your beardie has a custom condo, I don't doubt this new girl will be just as spoiled!

Thank you everyone! No she doesn't sit still for anything ....other than she is digging those toasted blankys. She wakes up around 11:00 am (lazy butt)...basks for a while and then demands her bath and her play time. I tried to take her to pick up my son the other day at school....ahhhh yea....thats not happening again. She was a million miles an hour...so I am sure it made her nervous.

DZ....Yea she is quite comfortable with the run of my house.....as Dave stated....HER house now. And for sure don't tell her no....she is doing it no matter WHAT you say or how many times you pick her up and move her.

Monica geez you aren't kidding....lol. :oops: But I am learning from Mike, Skip and Jmug and hope to relay more of a layman type of advice to help ppl out. It seems everything that I find that is actually correct about these reptiles is in scientific wording. Hard read!!! But its astounding how much info out there on monitors is bogus.

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Originally Posted by BPelizabeth

No she doesn't sit still for anything ....other than she is digging those toasted blankys. She wakes up around 11:00 am (lazy butt)...basks for a while and then demands her bath and her play time. I tried to take her to pick up my son the other day at school....ahhhh yea....thats not happening again. She was a million miles an hour...so I am sure it made her nervous.

DZ....Yea she is quite comfortable with the run of my house.....as Dave stated....HER house now. And for sure don't tell her no....she is doing it no matter WHAT you say or how many times you pick her up and move her.

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Monitors are not dogs. Why are you treating it like one?

There are many places online to find good information about most monitors. If you need links to good monitor lizard specific sites, let me know.

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Originally Posted by Nadamamasboy

I wish my Blue tail was that well behaved!

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Chances of you having a 'well behaved' healthy bluetail are one in 1000. They are very fierce monitors by nature....comparable to croc monitors. Good luck with the animal and be safe with your fingers.

I love reading your posts. They all crack me up. I tell you, if I was born a lizard I would want to be with you lol. They seem to be well taken care of " to say the least".

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

Jesus....are you kidding me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rage::rage: Is it something with some of you monitor owners that you have to act like jerks. (and clearly that is NOT the word I am thinking) I mean really!!!!!!! Its one thing to try to help ppl out in a respectful way....but its another to be like that. I don't treat MY monitor like a dog. I have 2 dogs thank you so much!!!! If you think I do...then mind your business and move on. As far as links....yea I'd rather ask ppl that can be nice. And who in the world are you to tell ANYONE..its highly unlikely that their monitor is healthy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BoaFreak

I love reading your posts. They all crack me up. I tell you, if I was born a lizard I would want to be with you lol. They seem to be well taken care of " to say the least".

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk

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Thanks!!!!! I try to do my best with all my kids!!! ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BPelizabeth

Jesus....are you kidding me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :rage::rage: Is it something with some of you monitor owners that you have to act like jerks. (and clearly that is NOT the word I am thinking) I mean really!!!!!!! Its one thing to try to help ppl out in a respectful way....but its another to be like that. I don't treat MY monitor like a dog. I have 2 dogs thank you so much!!!! If you think I do...then mind your business and move on..

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I wasn't being disrespectful. I asked a question. You let your monitor roam your house, bring it to pick up your kid at school, give it a bath and playtime. I assumed you were treating it like a dog. I apologize for my assumption. If I am wrong, please correct me. I was just wondering why you do such things with a lizard.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BPelizabeth

As far as links....yea I'd rather ask ppl that can be nice.

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Just offering some assistance. I apologize.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BPelizabeth

And who in the world are you to tell ANYONE..its highly unlikely that their monitor is healthy.

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I never said it is unlikely for the guy's monitor to be healthy. Please re-read the post.

If his bluetailed monitor is 'healthy' then it will most likely NOT be 'well behaved'. Bluetails are well known for being very fiesty IF they are healthy. If the monitor was not a little mean, then I would be concerned about health issues.

Shes so pretty!!!

I think it is a shame that people that own and have experience with monitors are so hateful about answering simple questions or sharing knowledge in general. Its almost as if they think they are better than other reptile keepers and that no one but them could ever keep a monitor!!!!!! They should probably remember they were beginners once too.

sent from my EVO

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jbean7916

Shes so pretty!!!

I think it is a shame that people that own and have experience with monitors are so hateful about answering simple questions or sharing knowledge in general. Its almost as if they think they are better than other reptile keepers and that no one but them could ever keep a monitor!!!!!! They should probably remember they were beginners once too.

sent from my EVO

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Amen to that sister!!!! But I have to say there are a few that have been more than helpful and I appreciate their help and their respect!! Yea thats you skiploader, quicksilver (mike) and Jmug!

I totally agree! I hate the coldness. The -you're wrong and I'm right so you don't deserve respect-...

In 1995 I got my first Burmese python. I was told to use a heat rock. Nothing was ever said about humidity. RI?? If the snake showed signs I was told to just put a heat lamp on and raise the heat.

We now know that isn't right but...

God forbid anyone kept one that way now!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

I wasn't being disrespectful. I asked a question. You let your monitor roam your house, bring it to pick up your kid at school, give it a bath and playtime. I assumed you were treating it like a dog. I apologize for my assumption. If I am wrong, please correct me. I was just wondering why you do such things with a lizard.



Just offering some assistance. I apologize.



I never said it is unlikely for the guy's monitor to be healthy. Please re-read the post.

If his bluetailed monitor is 'healthy' then it will most likely NOT be 'well behaved'. Bluetails are well known for being very fiesty IF they are healthy. If the monitor was not a little mean, then I would be concerned about health issues.

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First of all telling someone that the chance is one in 1000 is pretty much the same as highly unlikely. Sorry I misquoted you...to me...same thing. While I can understand your intentions.....it didn't come out well.

As far as being disrespectful....no you were rude!!! What makes you think that they shouldn't be allowed to come out of their cage and roam around and get some exercise?? Yes...she loves water and I give her a bath....she loves that time and swims around and ducks her head under the water. She lets me know when she is done by coming up to the edge of the bathtub. Apparently Quince monitors LOVE the water, hence why their cages need some type of pool. And finally YES....I took her in a car to the school to pick up my son. I work with kids and teach them about reptiles. So I wanted to see how she would do if and when I decide to take her into a class to spread some GOOD information about reptiles and teach kids about them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

I totally agree! I hate the coldness. The -you're wrong and I'm right so you don't deserve respect-...

In 1995 I got my first Burmese python. I was told to use a heat rock. Nothing was ever said about humidity. RI?? If the snake showed signs I was told to just put a heat lamp on and raise the heat.

We now know that isn't right but...

God forbid anyone kept one that way now!

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I just dont get it!!! I was talking to my husband tonight and I said if this is how it was when I got my first ball python, the snake would be dead by now....and I would of never had another reptile. It really makes me just want to delete all of the Thyssa posts. Which is really a bummer as I was so excited to share her with everyone!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BPelizabeth

First of all telling someone that the chance is one in 1000 is pretty much the same as highly unlikely. Sorry I misquoted you...to me...same thing. While I can understand your intentions.....it didn't come out well..

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Ha ha ha.... you don't understand. Maybe I don't know how to type. Mean bluetail = healthy bluetail. If you have an healthy bluetail, then most likely.....it will be aggressive. It was ment to say that he must be keeping it well if it is not 'well behaved' :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BPelizabeth

As far as being disrespectful....no you were rude!!!. What makes you think that they shouldn't be allowed to come out of their cage and roam around and get some exercise?? Yes...she loves water and I give her a bath....she loves that time and swims around and ducks her head under the water. She lets me know when she is done by coming up to the edge of the bathtub. Apparently Quince monitors LOVE the water, hence why their cages need some type of pool. And finally YES....I took her in a car to the school to pick up my son. I work with kids and teach them about reptiles. So I wanted to see how she would do if and when I decide to take her into a class to spread some GOOD information about reptiles and teach kids about them.

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I have seen countless people think that all those things are fine. Their monitors didn't last long. So I asked your reasons for doing so out of concern and with the intent of giving advice. I didn't call you an idiot or speak bad of you. I asked a question....just that much and you jump my case.

Your aggressive response was uncalled for. I apologized.....then you call me rude. You wonder why people that are experienced with monitors give such a cold response. I get on this forum after a short time away and attempt to get into a conversation with someone about their keeping methods and get called rude for what was most likely my shortsighted lack of detail in my post and someones' jaded interpretation.

Thanks. Good luck with your monitor. I hope you and the animal the best. Monitors are great animals. I learned most of what I know from keeping monitors....they are unlike all others ;)

All i have to say is if the monitor asks like a dog... let it be a dog :rofl:
I have no doubt that Michelle is taking care of this animal 100% perfect.
A tame monitor is an unhealthy monitor? I disagree, reptiles do become tame, as most of us reptile owners know. It just takes patience, hard work and dedication.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BPelizabeth

I just dont get it!!! I was talking to my husband tonight and I said if this is how it was when I got my first ball python, the snake would be dead by now....and I would of never had another reptile. It really makes me just want to delete all of the Thyssa posts. Which is really a bummer as I was so excited to share her with everyone!

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You know I was thinking the same thing, if I had been talked to the way you have concerning your monitor about my ball python, she probably wouldnt be in the best enclosure and I wouldnt know anything I do about them now.

Please dont delete her posts!!! she is too cute!

I think that like others have said people forget how it was to need help and information. They also seem to forget that over the internet inflection and tone (two things we humans rely on heavily to decide how a comment or sentence is meant to come across) are not conveyed and they usually will be taken as harsh.

I have no doubt that Thyssa will thrive in your care and that you will do your best to treat her as what she is.. a loved member of your family. Dont let some harsh people get you too down!

I think the biggest problem with 'tame' monitors is people confuse sick ones for tameness.. Sort of like sick iguanas.

I've seen so many youtube videos of people claiming their savannah monitor "sleeps" on them, when in actuality it is closing its eyes out of fear, trying to 'make it go away' sort of. It's a bad sign the monitor is very stressed! But we see it as a human thing, and confuse the stress for comfort. That means a lot of poorly kept monitors.

Another problem with monitors is there is a heck heck HECK of a lot of wrong information, even if every other caresheet is right, the monitor caresheet is often WAY wrong..like saying Savs should eat rodents as a staple.. Thank goodness that idea is finally going away, the things are complete insectivores in the wild. (I'm very against rodent feeding in savs..one day when I have one, he/she will eat 90% insects hopefully. I'm already getting ready to start a variety of roach and millipede colonies for my future friend!)

The unfortunate thing about monitors is that they are so hardy. They go through so much pain and live still for years and years. This makes keepers think they are right and it is okay for them to keep treating their animals this way.


This is why monitor keepers are so touchy.. They love their animals and they see a lot of people do a lot of bad things with their animals, so they get very defensive. I have known people with actually tame monitors, but usually true tameness doesn't come for years and years, they are too smart, they are unlike other reptiles. We have to earn their respect, and more often then not, we don't, so monitors remain mean despite being perfectly healthy! Right now the only thing you've shown is your monitor outside the enclosure, and it's a fairly new addition to the home, so some people are going to be wary of the animal's well being. They are very easily stressed, they just show it differently than other reptiles often times, and stress doesn't always mean hissing and tail whipping!

I'm sure you are taking very good care of your monitor, but I understand other monitor keeper's points.. It takes a lot of work to care for monitors and it is very different than other reptiles, and yet they are so often impulse buys(of course they are, they are all beautiful!)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DZ Reptiles

A tame monitor is an unhealthy monitor? I disagree, reptiles do become tame, as most of us reptile owners know. It just takes patience, hard work and dedication.

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I have to disagree with you too :) I believe there is no such thing as a tame monitor. I think they learn to tolerate people once they learn you are not dangerous....but they aren't tame.

Earning an monitor's 'trust' does take patience, hard work and dedication though. I once had some Storri that would hide at the sight of me in the room. It took more than two months before I could sit and watch them go about some normal behaviors without hiding myself. I spent a lot of time sitting still in front of an 'empty' cage to show I was no harm. :)

She is adorable Michelle! I just love your stories and I look forward to more!

Raise your hand if you feel the love!!

She looks great,.. she reminds me of this Sulfur Monitor I wanted but the price was too steep.

I am feeling the love Monica.....thank you everyone!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by purplemuffin

I think the biggest problem with 'tame' monitors is people confuse sick ones for tameness.. Sort of like sick iguanas.

I've seen so many youtube videos of people claiming their savannah monitor "sleeps" on them, when in actuality it is closing its eyes out of fear, trying to 'make it go away' sort of. It's a bad sign the monitor is very stressed! But we see it as a human thing, and confuse the stress for comfort. That means a lot of poorly kept monitors.

Another problem with monitors is there is a heck heck HECK of a lot of wrong information, even if every other caresheet is right, the monitor caresheet is often WAY wrong..like saying Savs should eat rodents as a staple.. Thank goodness that idea is finally going away, the things are complete insectivores in the wild. (I'm very against rodent feeding in savs..one day when I have one, he/she will eat 90% insects hopefully. I'm already getting ready to start a variety of roach and millipede colonies for my future friend!)

The unfortunate thing about monitors is that they are so hardy. They go through so much pain and live still for years and years. This makes keepers think they are right and it is okay for them to keep treating their animals this way.


This is why monitor keepers are so touchy.. They love their animals and they see a lot of people do a lot of bad things with their animals, so they get very defensive. I have known people with actually tame monitors, but usually true tameness doesn't come for years and years, they are too smart, they are unlike other reptiles. We have to earn their respect, and more often then not, we don't, so monitors remain mean despite being perfectly healthy! Right now the only thing you've shown is your monitor outside the enclosure, and it's a fairly new addition to the home, so some people are going to be wary of the animal's well being. They are very easily stressed, they just show it differently than other reptiles often times, and stress doesn't always mean hissing and tail whipping!

I'm sure you are taking very good care of your monitor, but I understand other monitor keeper's points.. It takes a lot of work to care for monitors and it is very different than other reptiles, and yet they are so often impulse buys(of course they are, they are all beautiful!)

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I agree with you that the care sheets out there are SERIOUSLY lacking. Everyone one that I found on the internet for Thyssa continued to tell me that a yellow tree monitor and a Quince were the same. They also recommended rodents and other things that were not good for her. I also agree that there are many out there that will never really be tame. From what I read Quince are more docile than most. She was a breeders pet for 4-5 years prior to coming to me. As far as impulse....I can agree with that as well. This was NOT something I was thinking about getting but we fell in love with her and I am anal about how I take care of my animals. There is no doubt in my mind that she will not be healthy and happy.

Do I want ppl to help me and teach me more about her and what is in her best interest....of course. However I will not tolerate being approached such as I was. I go out of my way to help ppl that have less knowledge than I do. I also go out of my way to be nice and understanding to ppl. And lastly I go out of my way to give ppl the benefit of the doubt. I totally expect the same treatment. I take great pride in how I keep all of my reptiles and the research I do.

Monitors are not the only reptiles out there that are NOT being taken care of properly. Its truly across the board, but why is it so abrasive to get a message across. Its a total turn off to having a monitor! Maybe the fact that some ppl that have monitors are so abrasive that it really truly is hard to learn how to properly take care of them. You know the saying....more bees with honey!

I know that once I get this down....and get her perm cage done that I will never treat someone like this.....and I hope that helps someone else that maybe wasn't "planning" on buying a monitor but just fell in love with them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

Monitors are not dogs. Why are you treating it like one?

There are many places online to find good information about most monitors. If you need links to good monitor lizard specific sites, let me know.


Chances of you having a 'well behaved' healthy bluetail are one in 1000. They are very fierce monitors by nature....comparable to croc monitors. Good luck with the animal and be safe with your fingers.

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Considering you have NOOOO idea what your talking about is very amusing to me! People say PitBulls, GTP's, ETB's and many more are very agrassive.. But don't you see some amazing nice wonderful ones? Not even once in a while it's all the time.. All monitors are smart independent creatures that need trust to be touched, I have seen more than a dozen Croc monitors that are PUPPY tame.. More than puppy tame, Any animal needs trust to build a relationship.. It's very likely that the animal with die due to it being stressed out so much, but obviously the owner can tell that it's being stressed. My Aunt Michelle (BPelizabeth) Is no downer to the reptile community since she takes AMAZING care of EVERYTHING that is in her grasp.. She wants EVERYTHING to be perfect doesn't matter what money she spends. It's pretty rude and funny you know NOTHINGGG about her at all, And to bag on her like that is hilarious, Considering many people know and LOVE my Aunt. This monitor is VERy HEALTHY and non stressed, Due to the fact that all it wants is attention... And you pretty much have to pry her out of the bathtub, and she gets a hissy fit when she's in her cage.. So next time you wanna be a jerk, Keep it to yourself cause you'll be Crapped on by a bunch of people including me. Keep your comments to your self since you don't know what you have been talking about throughhout these comments hahahaa. Learn your stuff Bro, And keep iin your head that everything is possible.
:)

People say alligators can't be treated like dogs, given kisses and hugs, and left on a table without a taped mouth all day around a bunch of people....
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...2010/005-1.jpg

I have no doubt that BPelizabeth is taking great care of her monitor. She will do everything in her power to give her the best of the best. When I was young I had a cute little white rabbit that I took out on the harness and it was just like the one on Monte Python and the Holy Grail. One day while I had him out on the harness he bit a chunk of rubber off my shoe to bite me. He was an evil little thing! And people say little white bunnies make great pets....

Hi, fyi, Daniel may not have approached this thread with the best attitude, he has plenty to share and is a great bank of knowledge.

There is a visceral reaction with many against the idea that reptiles can be 'tamed'. I think Elizabeth realizes that no matter how tame her monitors can seem they shouldn't be trusted. They're simply not domesticated animals, and seeing as tame generally = domesticated, it's hard to justify the two.

Anyways, proceed with whatever this thread turned into. As I've said before, pretty melinus.

I have never been treated in this way on this forum before.

I never said anyone's care of the animal was bad. I did not call people names and speak badly of them. I asked a question concerning the things she was doing with the animal. I made a post with the intent of discussing things. I even offered help to references because she was talking about lack of good information. I repeatedly apologized if my post was not worded properly. Again I am sorry. I was just attempting for a FRIENDLY converation about monitor care. Obviously, it was a failed attempt.

I like to help people out and discuss reptiles. Look at my past input on the site. I was once a moderator. Threads that I took the time to develop are still some of the most frequented 'sticky' threads on the site. I am experienced with monitors and many other reptiles. Reptiles and talking about reptiles are my escape from the 'real world'.

I have been away from the site due to family issues and finally have an opportunity to come back to the site after months away....and in an attempt to talk things out with a new monitor keeper and find out why she was doing certain things with the lizard...I ask a question....and I get called rude, am told I have no idea what I am talking about, and get mocked and cursed at in a private message.

As stated so many times before, I am sorry I accidentially offended people with the posts......although I am still unable to figure out why it created so much hostility against me in the first place.

Daniel - first let me say I apologize that you were cursed at in a PM...that is never appropriate and I really really do not condone that. I really think it was just the way it was typed....how it came across. I apologize that you are feeling beat up about it. One thing I have noticed about monitor owners....you guys are fairly on the scientific side, quite blunt, and a bit short. Maybe misunderstood....kind of like some engineers.....lol :rolleyes: Also I need to apologize as I am quite prideful as to how I keep my babies....hence I am very sensitive in regards to that!

I don't doubt that you have a ton of experience and that you could help!!! Lord knows.....I am a total noob at this. With that being said....I think its just overall how some come across. I know for me...whenever I have to tell someone that they are not paticularly doing it the best way....I try to approach it as gently as possible so that no one is ever offended. After all ppl tend to accept help more often when they dont feel like they are confronted.... so to speak!




To reiterate what Mike said......(and something I teach kids ALL the time)...even if you can "tame" something...there always is a chance that it could turn on you. Especially with things not domesticated. But even with dogs ...cats...etc. Do I think things can be tamed....sure. But never at the expense of the animals well being. I also tell kids at my shows.....EVERYTHING can bite....(yes even crickets...maybe not you...but they can bite).

To everyone who stuck up for me....I really appreciate you all for sticking up for me!! I really do. It does make you feel so loved! You know if I can ever help you....Im there in 2.2 seconds! But please dont curse at Daniel! We all have to remember that we all have at least 1 thing in common and that is Ball Pythons.

Ok...now everyone get together and hold hands and lets sing cuum bi ya. (no clue how to spell that one). :grouphug:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BPelizabeth

One thing I have noticed about monitor owners....you guys are fairly on the scientific side, quite blunt, and a bit short. Maybe misunderstood....kind of like some engineers.....lol :rolleyes:

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Ha ha....taking another shot at me :) J/k.

I am an engineer and a 'former' monitor keeper ;)....but you hit the nail on the head with that description..

Sadly, I don't have the time to keep any lizards monitors right now. I am sure you are finding out how demanding they can be on time. They are my favorite reptile to keep.

Monitor care may seem complex at times.....it isn't. Care for one monitor species can work for most monitor species....with slight modifications for size, habitat of origin, etc. The 'basics' can generally be applied across the board. Don't look for stuff specifically about your monitor species.....read about all species care you can find. It helps once you start seeing similarities in need.

Understanding them actually gets easier the more you have, so watch out ;)

[QUOTE=daniel1983;1509307]Ha ha....taking another shot at me :) J/k.

I am an engineer and a 'former' monitor keeper ;)....but you hit the nail on the head with that description..

QUOTE]

Oh crap...seriously....:please:....I really had no idea ...sorry! Although that is kind a funny! :oops:

The core issue I see in this thread seems to be a trend in male vs. female reptile keepers. They just seem to have different ideologies on reptile care. The guys seem to want to get down to the science. Girls want to give benefit of the doubt to biology, and some of them seem to feel every creature on earth needs affection to survive.
At the center I really feel its nature v. nurture. Guys think thousands of years of primitive brain function leaves reptiles forever stuck in their ways (nature). Girls think love and hard work (nurture) can turn any animal into a great pet.

Note, this does not mean that either ideology is correct! Perhaps these two ideologies have no correlation to sex. I have simply noticed this trend in a few years of being in the hobby, maybe I should just do some more research, so to speak!

P.s.
Great looking monitor! I think you commented on a pic of my tegu once. I put plenty of work into "taming" her as a baby. She is very well behaved now, but tegus are known for being easy to work with. Still, sometimes her prehistoric brain shines through and all I see is the behavior of a simple reptile with only food, thermo-regulation, and survival on its mind!

Sorry if this makes no sense or is somehow offensive. Maybe just esoteric philosophy.
-Sam

I probably did ......I LOVE tegus and was going to get one until Alex (legit reptiles) went on vacation and I took his right smack in the middle of mating season.....OYE. I have to say...he did scare me a little.

Interesting concept that you have.....never thought of it that way. I will say I certainly have a mothering thing with my babies. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by LegitReptiles

Considering you have NOOOO idea what your talking about is very amusing to me! People say PitBulls, GTP's, ETB's and many more are very agrassive.. But don't you see some amazing nice wonderful ones? Not even once in a while it's all the time.. All monitors are smart independent creatures that need trust to be touched, I have seen more than a dozen Croc monitors that are PUPPY tame.. More than puppy tame, Any animal needs trust to build a relationship.. It's very likely that the animal with die due to it being stressed out so much, but obviously the owner can tell that it's being stressed. My Aunt Michelle (BPelizabeth) Is no downer to the reptile community since she takes AMAZING care of EVERYTHING that is in her grasp.. She wants EVERYTHING to be perfect doesn't matter what money she spends. It's pretty rude and funny you know NOTHINGGG about her at all, And to bag on her like that is hilarious, Considering many people know and LOVE my Aunt. This monitor is VERy HEALTHY and non stressed, Due to the fact that all it wants is attention... And you pretty much have to pry her out of the bathtub, and she gets a hissy fit when she's in her cage.. So next time you wanna be a jerk, Keep it to yourself cause you'll be Crapped on by a bunch of people including me. Keep your comments to your self since you don't know what you have been talking about throughhout these comments hahahaa. Learn your stuff Bro, And keep iin your head that everything is possible.
:)

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Your assertion that you have seen more than a dozen tame croc monitors clearly shows how high on the dipstick your BS runs. Daniel is one of maybe six or so people who frequent this forum who know their varanids.

Tame croc monitors - you're a riot. Croc monitors are perhaps one of the poorest captive monitors you could hope to keep. The potential they have to inflict serious injuries on morons who think they are "dog tame" is high. More importantly, the potential that fools who think that they can be tamed could have on the reptile hobby is even higher.

Do us all a favor and think before you open that pie-hole of yours again. Not only did you make an ass of yourself in calling out someone who has more knowledge than you on this subject, but your stupid assertion of tameness may be read by someone even more misinformed than you who may actually take your words to task - and end up in the emergency room as a consequence.

.......and no - I'm not bagging on your Aunt - I'm bagging on you. My advice to you is think before you post any more drivel.

I read Daniel's posts and fail to see the rudeness in them. While his postings were direct, it was based on his experience with monitors and should be taken seriously. Only an insecure, immature and ignorant idiot would see antagonism in those posts.

To the jack-ass who sent him a nasty private message:

Go ahead and send one to me. Make it as nasty and confrontational as you can.

I've got the next three days off and sincerely look forward to spoon feeding you your own colon.

i always read skiploder's posts, always good information and he always says the things i want to

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Originally Posted by BPelizabeth

I agree with you that the care sheets out there are SERIOUSLY lacking. Everyone one that I found on the internet for Thyssa continued to tell me that a yellow tree monitor and a Quince were the same. They also recommended rodents and other things that were not good for her. I also agree that there are many out there that will never really be tame. From what I read Quince are more docile than most. She was a breeders pet for 4-5 years prior to coming to me. As far as impulse....I can agree with that as well. This was NOT something I was thinking about getting but we fell in love with her and I am anal about how I take care of my animals. There is no doubt in my mind that she will not be healthy and happy.

Do I want ppl to help me and teach me more about her and what is in her best interest....of course. However I will not tolerate being approached such as I was. I go out of my way to help ppl that have less knowledge than I do. I also go out of my way to be nice and understanding to ppl. And lastly I go out of my way to give ppl the benefit of the doubt. I totally expect the same treatment. I take great pride in how I keep all of my reptiles and the research I do.

Monitors are not the only reptiles out there that are NOT being taken care of properly. Its truly across the board, but why is it so abrasive to get a message across. Its a total turn off to having a monitor! Maybe the fact that some ppl that have monitors are so abrasive that it really truly is hard to learn how to properly take care of them. You know the saying....more bees with honey!

I know that once I get this down....and get her perm cage done that I will never treat someone like this.....and I hope that helps someone else that maybe wasn't "planning" on buying a monitor but just fell in love with them.

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Michelle:

You are confusing abrasiveness with concern.

Monitors are perpetually kept incorrectly. They are kept in cages that are too small, fed diets that endanger their health and are often treated like scaly dogs.

The amount of disinformation that is dispensed is staggering. The sad part is that there are plenty of places to get good, solid husbandry advice. Most reptile forums are not those places.

Daniel, Mike and Allergenic all post here - and their information and advice is spot on. While you may not find the tone as soft and cuddly as the advice given out by Robin and Judy (in the case of BPs), do not let that prevent you from following it.

You now have an animal that has husbandry requirements that far exceed those of just about any other reptile you could own. While I don't doubt your commitment to properly care for this animal, I do worry that the fact that you are trimming it's nails, letting it cruise the house, etc. could result in a bad ending. Purplemuffin has already hit on most of these points, but they bear repeating.

Not to beat you about the head and neck with this, but that animal needs a hot, hot spot, a large enclosure, a specific diet, and more importantly, time to settle in. Monitors are great at masking our mistakes in keeping them correctly for long periods of time. I agree with just bout everyone who has expressed concern that the animal is acting so tame. Not to sound like a broken record, but a "tame" monitor is more often than not one that is stressed or ill.

Well skip Thyssa and I were working today on a game of fetch...;) clearly joking!

You know I have mad mad respect for you!!! Probably one of few ppl I would take advice from and not think twice as to wonder if it was solid advice or not. As I stated previously....I just think there is another way to approach it. A little more gently and not so abrasive! Yea I like the soft touch thing....:rolleyes:

Thyssa right now has a basking spot of 135. Getting that basking high is not a problem....currently we are doing a lot of misting to keep the humidity high. Her diet right now is consisting of poultry right now. Waiting for the Dubias to come in. She does come out a lot right now as we are working on a large cage for her. I want to make sure she gets the extra exercise she needs. Typically she will take a bath and cruise around the house for a while being nosey. She will crawl up on us and in and out of the couch or where we are sitting, then crawl around some more and back to us....then after a bit ....she will find a place to settle in. At that point she is taken back to her cage. She is not held against her will at all. As far as her nails....they are trimmed a little....as you can see they are plenty long still....just not razor blades.

As far as her cage....it will be 6 ft tall and 5 ft wide. It will have a pool at the bottom (heated to help with humidity)..another level will her burrow area with substrate and then of course the basking spot and trees and folliage. It will include a misting system to further assist with humidity. It will also include a sump pump(thanks for the idea J mug) and a drainage system to make cleaning easy. It will have a place for 4 lights if needed to raise the temps if needed. Still not sure what type of substrate to use....it will probably be a combination of things. If you can think of anything else I need in there let me know.

As far as Legit goes.....go easy...hes only 15 and very protective of his Auntie. He has a very good heart and means well and for his age....has a lot of experience.

I think the lesson in this whole huge mess of a thread is just remember to talk to ppl the way you would want to be talked to. Maybe if we approach things a little differently (in the monitor world) more ppl will ask questions and eventually we can do away with all the crappy info out there.

She is such a little cutie Michelle! I can't wait to read the diaries of Thyssa!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BPelizabeth

Well skip Thyssa and I were working today on a game of fetch...;) clearly joking!

You know I have mad mad respect for you!!! Probably one of few ppl I would take advice from and not think twice as to wonder if it was solid advice or not. As I stated previously....I just think there is another way to approach it. A little more gently and not so abrasive! Yea I like the soft touch thing....:rolleyes:

Thyssa right now has a basking spot of 135. Getting that basking high is not a problem....currently we are doing a lot of misting to keep the humidity high. Her diet right now is consisting of poultry right now. Waiting for the Dubias to come in. She does come out a lot right now as we are working on a large cage for her. I want to make sure she gets the extra exercise she needs. Typically she will take a bath and cruise around the house for a while being nosey. She will crawl up on us and in and out of the couch or where we are sitting, then crawl around some more and back to us....then after a bit ....she will find a place to settle in. At that point she is taken back to her cage. She is not held against her will at all. As far as her nails....they are trimmed a little....as you can see they are plenty long still....just not razor blades.

As far as her cage....it will be 6 ft tall and 5 ft wide. It will have a pool at the bottom (heated to help with humidity)..another level will her burrow area with substrate and then of course the basking spot and trees and folliage. It will include a misting system to further assist with humidity. It will also include a sump pump(thanks for the idea J mug) and a drainage system to make cleaning easy. It will have a place for 4 lights if needed to raise the temps if needed. Still not sure what type of substrate to use....it will probably be a combination of things. If you can think of anything else I need in there let me know.

As far as Legit goes.....go easy...hes only 15 and very protective of his Auntie. He has a very good heart and means well and for his age....has a lot of experience.

I think the lesson in this whole huge mess of a thread is just remember to talk to ppl the way you would want to be talked to. Maybe if we approach things a little differently (in the monitor world) more ppl will ask questions and eventually we can do away with all the crappy info out there.

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I have never had any doubt that you would do the right thing by her. You have both the intention and means to make sure she leads a long and happy life.

I'll say one more thing about the attitude of the monitor community and then I'll drop it.....you are talking about a dedicated group of keepers who - without the help of care sheets and a huge forum support network - have worked hard to find ways to keep these animals healthy in captivity.

Nothing about a monitor is cookie-cutter. With the exception of crickets, no pet store caters to their dietary needs. No one manufacturers the perfect monitor enclosure, and no pet store sells the perfect monitor substrate. Everything that a lizard, snake or frog keeper can easily buy has to be cleverly manufactured and cobbled together from other less conventional sources.

What many people consider proper husbandry for monitors amounts to little more than animal abuse, and like we've already touched upon, most care sheets and non-varanid forums actively promote keeping these animals in ways that seriously compromise their health.

Savs, salvators, crocs, niloticus, ionides, dumerils................we see these animals sold cheaply everyday to people who have no idea what they are getting into and who are given possibly the worst advice on their husbandry. The majority of these animals live miserable lives - not given enough space, not given enough heat, fed an unhealthy diet, and then trussed up into harnesses and paraded about the neighborhood.

So what some perceive as rudeness is nothing more than a small group of people who are tired of seeing the same bad practices used and reacting to what they see as another example of someone getting into these animals who is not prepared or properly informed on how to keep them. You are the exception to what is normally seen - most people will sit here and adamantly defend these bad practices, ignoring the advice they are given.

When people talk of monitor "tameness", they are - as Daniel stated - referring to nothing more that the animal tolerating and being accustomed to your presence. They cannot be trusted like a dog or a cat. That cute monitor who scampers across the carpet and lounges on the coffee table isn't so cute when your kid goes to touch it and still has the smell of his recently consumed Happy Meal on his fingers.

As for your protective nephew - that's great that he loves his Auntie, but he still went broadside on someone who was trying to offer you help and advice. In the process he posted some bad information on one of the most potentially dangerous monitors sold in the pet trade. I sincerely hope he was not the jack ass who decided to send Daniel that PM.

This isn't a mess of a thread. It shows the polarization between common misconception and reality. Elizabeth, if you have not already done so, I would take Daniel up on his offer to provide more extensive links. I would start by checking out a link you were already given by someone else - Biawak - and read the back issues. I would also join Varanus.Net and Varanus.Nl and search every post about melinus.

.

Health and Well-being
vs.
Stickers and Kittens

Jer....lol:rolleyes:

I totally agree with everything you are saying skip.....but then again I usually do! I have already read some of the issues of biawak and have to send an email to Varanus as they are not accepting regular registration due to spammers. I have to agree 110 that these are sold without proper knowledge and quite frankly....the more I read ...the more I am a bit intimidated by the real care of her.

I do want to add and then I hope this thread just dies...

I have been told by more than one veteren on here that many do not post things in regards to their monitors because of the nature of how things come out. (clearly not mentioning any names here). While I can understand that its frustrating seeing so much crap out there. Wouldn't it be in monitors best interest to be a more helpful in a way that would is not so abrasive?? Certainly not looking for an answer....just something to think about. Again the more bees w honey thing can apply. ?? Just saying!! I have said it before and I will say it again.....I hope that I can help someone later once I get this down pat.

Wow, what a thread, haha.

I am totally enamored by monitors, but have never had the resources available to me to keep them properly. Your monitor is very handsome, and your prospective setup sounds great.

I can see both sides certainly, and I think there's a time for gentle criticism, and a time for bluntness. I think brutal honesty, and I mean BRUTAL, should be implemented in all cases of consideration of purchasing an animal. A huge majority of people buying monitors simply won't be able to keep them properly--they won't have to dedication, resources, or even information to do it right. I think approaching these buyers abrasively will force them think twice about making a purchase they are more than likely unprepared to properly deal with. Talking softly in this case will only encourage them to jump into something too deep for them to handle.

Also, as for the tameness argument--being abrasive here seems also like the appropriate response. While there are certainly exceptions to every rule, it is MUCH better to be safe than sorry with such dangerous animals. Promoting the tame-ability of monitor lizards will only lead to unnecessary injury. What bad could highlighting the aggressiveness of monitors bring? It seems to me very little in comparison. In fact, I think it could only lead to a healthy respect that is well deserved.

On the other hand, if a purchase it made, and the owner seems to have all the necessary intent, dedication, and resources to keeping their animals happy, perhaps some softer guidance is warranted. I think the problem is discerning when that is the case. While Daniel's comments might have brought offense (though personally I can't tell why they would have, especially after his follow-up comments), they were clearly coming from the good place of wanting to see an animal lead a happy, healthy life. With it being so difficult to discern the responsible keepers from the irresponsible ones, and with so many people trying to keep monitors, I think abrasiveness seems like a reasonable default; I would rather see a few uncomfortable and/or offended monitor keepers than I would a bunch of sick animals--that is, given that with abrasiveness comes solid information, as was presented in Daniel's comment.

I certainly think you should encourage Legit to apologize for his harsh words though. As a 15 year old, I can't see how it's his place to tell an experienced keeper he knows nothing. His post was by far the most offensive made in this thread, and in keeping with the professionalism we all like to see on this forum, he shouldn't be coddled here. It it always important to remember that posting something on the internet brings permanence. Without being too dramatic, those words will be attached to his name forever. Before posting anything, we should all take some serious time to consider and choose our words carefully. For that advise, I'd have to say age is inconsequential. As soon as he decides to post on a message board, he should be encouraged to be professional and thoughtful, as we should all be.

Anywho, all of this is just my take on things. I wish you the best with your beautiful animal, and I'm sure she will be happy in your hands. Congratulations on the addition!

Cheers,
-Matt

In my opinion the #1 thing to keeping a happy monitor is heat. i keep savs black throats and a couple ackies. the savs have 5'x3'x2' cages and the blackthroats have 6'x5'x2' cages and the ackies have 55 gallon enclosures. the reason the monitors have relativly small cages is because they have acces to a 95 degree monitor room where they like to cause trouble. this room is 24'x21'x8'.