Thoughts on Ralph Davis' newest controversial youtube video?

What are your thoughts? If you havnt seen the video I will post the link.

The "Guts" Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkUUJ...&feature=feedu

and the follow-up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mf5ig...&feature=feedu

Personally I think what he did was just fine. He saved a baby ball python from dying whereas I believe that some breeders would have just tossed her in the freezer. Props to Ralph for saving that baby BP!

X2


Anyone, even a noob will see this and at least think that their hatclings have a chance.

Sent from my HUAWEI-M860

I give him props aswell!
He did a great job and saved an animals life :gj:

I agree it was great he tried to save this animal and it worked, but being in the medical field, the fact he did that sans any sterile proceedure is a HUGE no no and it is amazing the snake didn't get an infection. If you took that same snake to your vet, I can promise you he would have worn gloves and used sterile technique!

Glad to see though that she lived and is doing fine.

All we have to say is he never showed him sterelizing it, doesn't mean he didn't. Just means he has really ugly hands, I know my thumb looks like its about to fall off no matter how hard I scrub it with soap.
Props to Ralph!

Great set of videos. It really makes me feel good about my fellow man when I see this stuff.

anyone against the video's is dumb :) they will help other's see that a baby with guts hanging out has a chance and how to resolve it :)

Lance

Never had to do home surgery on a snake yet, but plenty of times on female tokays. It amazes me how traumatic something can seem on reptiles, and they bounce back with no problems at all. very good video, and I agree it is definitely a great reference tool if this problem were to arise.

I think the action on it self is great! Good to see that the little one survived.
BUT, I personally whould never use common sowing materials, better to have some clean and proper tools on storage. Also he could use some hygenic gloves or something, bare handed can result in infections.

just a thought! was this snake sedated in any way shape or form? or was he just sewed up???? i think that there needs to be props given and that he definately needs a kudos for having this balls to do something of this nature! but at the same time the likely hood of this happending in the future with out infection or complication is probally slim to none-- im not a vet but experience as a vet tech...

Stop hating on the method/delivery, and just be thankful that he spared a life that most people would just post a sad thread about.

Snake is alive, obviously he did fine.

Key notes- wash hands, sterilize needle, Lysol counters. Got it.

Thank you Ralph. :gj:

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Originally Posted by BroknBusted

but being in the medical field, the fact he did that sans any sterile proceedure is a HUGE no no

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Interesting note: My girlfriend just got back from doing health work in Tanzania.

There was one woman who had her stitches removed a few weeks after a c-section. She left the hospital, only to return a few hours later with her wound completely open, holding her intestines in her hands to keep them from falling on the ground.

Apparently, in a non-sterile procedure (but with gloves), doctors shoved her intestines back in her, slathered lidocaine over the exterior of the wound, and splashed iodine elsewhere before sewing her up again.

Just food for thought on "being in the medical field" and how sometimes, some places don't have the means for sterile procedures.

Bottom line is he saved the ssnakes life. Good for him.

Got to give him props. A breeder of that caliber putting that much time and effort into a 50% Het pied is really great. When you are dealing with $20K snakes on a daily basis, its commendable to care for a $50 snake just as much.

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Originally Posted by monk90222

When you are dealing with $20K snakes on a daily basis, its commendable to care for a $50 snake just as much.

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:D I agree, though, isn't that why most people get into breeding in the first place.... for the love of our beautiful snakes? :P I think it's good to see the compassion most definitely! He hasn't lost sight of what is important! Sure it's a little more work than just freezing the poor thing.. but you're saving a life there!

I think he did great! Yeah, he could have worn gloves, but he didn't and the snake was okay. Still better off than it was!!

I am very glad that girl is okay :)

Though, I wonder if any damage was done with her organs, I know he plans to breed her, but I wonder if he has any other genetic deformities/if the one she had kinda funked up her maternal organs!

First off I've watched his videos in the past and like others have said he is an amazing breeder. last night I was surfing the forums too and was curious what the most replied to topic was. I ran into a topic were a hatchlings heart was hanging out. In both cases the animal pulled through thanks to the caring nature of the breeders. Kudos for both, as said before it shows these breeders are in it for the long hall thick and thin its not :colbert: all about the money.

As stated before to I'm a noob and I see it. Then again anyone that doesn't I feel bad for you...

Again I am glad he saved this snake however I stand by what I said and still believe sterility is a MUST when doing something like this. Washing you hands isn't being sterile! And yes, even in a sterile enviorment things can go wrong, but the chances are MUCH MUCH higher with non-strile technique, instruments and proceedures.

And I also have to wonder, why did this guy not take the snake to a qualified vet? I watch him stuffing the snakes intestines back in without regard to wether there may be a tear in them. Maybe he did that off cam, but I doubt it. Had their been, the snake would have developed sepsis within 24 hours and died a horrible painful death! Surely it isn't because he could not afford a vet.

I think that a video like this, while having a positive outcome, could also be very dangerous when just the average person sees it. It is apparent this guy has tons of experience with snakes. However, I do not, as I am sure at least half the folks who have watched the video do not, and to think someone like that would attempt this proceedure themselves is scary.

Again, before I get slammed, I am glad the snake surivived. But as pointed out by someone here, the guy deals with 20k snakes on a daily basis. He should have paid for a quailified vet to handle something like properly. Do not attempt this on you own!

In my opinion, Ralph Davies did a great job in saving the BP from dying. In fact, he is one of the best breeders for me. He treats his job/hobby with great passion and is kind enough to share it to other hobbyist/enthusiast (whatever you may want to call it). Also, I can say that his videos is very raw and informative. HANDS UP FR MR RALPH DAVIES! RDR! :gj::gj::gj::D:D:D

I stated this pretty much in the quarantine section but again we do not know that he did not sterilize everything. That is an assumptioin that he didn't.

As far as giving the snake a sedative....and someone correct me if I am wrong. Its very dangerous to give a snake anything like that. I think I have read before that many do not do well with sedatives and in fact that itself can kill the snake.

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Originally Posted by BPelizabeth

I stated this pretty much in the quarantine section but again we do not know that he did not sterilize everything. That is an assumptioin that he didn't.

As far as giving the snake a sedative....and someone correct me if I am wrong. Its very dangerous to give a snake anything like that. I think I have read before that many do not do well with sedatives and in fact that itself can kill the snake.

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I can not comment on the sedation but I can state that being sterile isn't just washing you hands and counter top. It is using sterile gloves, autoclaved sterilized wrapped instruments, sterile work enviorment and sterile proceedures. I would bet my next months paycheck the items he used were washed and cleaned as were his hands. THAT is not being sterile though! And a non sterile environment can lead to some serious infections that would be more harm to the snake then the initial injury.

I am NOT condemming this man! I think the fact he did anything at all is really great. From what I have read he is a great breeder and cares for his snakes. I wouldn't mind buying one from him someday myself!

I just think, giving his experience and care for his animals, taking that little extra step to ensure the snake is protected is a must. I can almost guarantee that if ANYONE here went to a vet for something this serious and found the snake to have an infection 24 hours later as a direct result of the vet not usuing sterility, you would be angry! I know I would!

Just out of curiosity, do any of the vets on here have a comment? And I worng here? I am not trying to say he should not have saved the snakes life, I am just saying he put the snake at just as much risk with HOW he did it.

did he do all that....probably not...who knows though. I by no means was there so I cannot comment. However I do see your point but I also know that there are docs. working in third world countries that don't have that either and treat ppl with success all the time. I would indeed be mad if I went to a vet and that happened as I pay for those machines to sterilze everything perfectly ....its part of my office visit charge.

If the snake did in fact get an infection I am pretty sure he has the medicine to be able to treat the infection as well. Look I am not trying to argue at all....I just think you do what you have to do to save the snake.

i have an excellent reptile vet and i have had several conversations with him on reptile surgeries and other topics realted to the big no no E word (thats...ear muffs reptile evolution).

according to him there is a low survival rate for sedation on reptiles. sedation is really hard on their systems. even during a "routine" procedure, the surivial rate is low.

also, there are new finidngs in scientific journals that the primative nerves of reptiles don't really feel pain as higher order animals. makes sense when you think about how a snake or lizard will burn itself do death on a heat rock.

Sterile is actually hard to do in a hurry, I think that as clean as you can plays in here. I think I would have worn gloves but then again they are in an open box in the snake room and are not much better than my hands. I have a handful of disinfectants but no sterilants. I would guess if any here had the cash sitting around we would buy an ultrasound machine over an autoclave. We can do the best we can and hope it works out. Mr. Davis describes doing the same operation before and apparently it has worked before, and seems to have worked this time as well who am I to complain about the if he used sterile equipment or not.

I have found many breeders whom care for the animals they work with without thought to how much it is worth. How many breeders loose money on normals every year? A normal worth 40 dollars costs quick quickly more than that in food, power, and labor, yet there they are. I hope it never changes, anyone looking at the pet industry at all should take heart with the state of the reptile breeders in general. PETA open your eyes and see!

Sorry rant... :oops:

Lucas....thank you for clarifying that for me. I knew I had heard it somewhere.

I think it is great that he sewed her up, he is a big name breeder who doesnt need to save them for profit and the fact that he showed her and took the time to try to save her instead of just giving up on her, says something about him.

as for the people commenting that he didnt sanitize, if you listen to him revisiting her in the second video, he talks about finding her full of vermiculite and needing to sterile flush etc, so he did sanitize he just didnt film it. He might not have had sterile equipment, but having a sterile field in the snake room would have been next to impossible to just have on stand by. If he hadnt sanitized some how the likelihood of her survival was minimal and I am sure he wasn't worried about if people watching would really think that he washed his hands etc.. but more about putting the baby back together.

I give him :gj::gj: for showing people what their options are when they get a hatchling out that is less than perfect, instead of just culling it.

I can see I am on an island by myself here. I feel he should have taken her to a qualified vet and to post this kind of video can lead others into thinking they can do the same thing could lead to a snake being handled wrong and suffering.

The fact that in the first video he is attempting to "put her guts back in" as he states, only to have someone point out find half of what he was trying to replace in here was indeed yolk and NOT intestines says he was ill-equipped to do this proceedure. He got lucky in the animal not getting an infection, plain and simple. Had he placed the yolk inside, it may have well just absorbed or it may have led to sepsis. I'm not a vet, but I am hard pressed to think of ANY vet who would agree with what he did!

I raised and bred ferrets about 25 years ago, long before they were popular in most pet stores. I've handled thousands and would bet I know more about them then some vets do. However, I would NEVER qualify myself as being able to perform surgery on one just because I bred them and knew more then the avarage joe. And to be honest, surgery is what he preformed. Sans sterilty or even the proper needle or sutures.

I commend him in wanting to save a "$40" normal as someone put it on here. It says a lot of his character and integrity AS a breeder. I just think his method was irresponsible AS a breeder. Let a qualified, trained, LICENSED vet do surgery, or at the VERY least, don't post a video showing how and lead others into trying the same thing at home! There is a reason vetrinarians go to school for four plus years to learn this sort of thing.

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Originally Posted by BroknBusted

I can see I am on an island by myself here. I feel he should have taken her to a qualified vet and to post this kind of video can lead others into thinking they can do the same thing could lead to a snake being handled wrong and suffering.

The fact that in the first video he is attempting to "put her guts back in" as he states, only to have someone point out find half of what he was trying to replace in here was indeed yolk and NOT intestines says he was ill-equipped to do this proceedure. He got lucky in the animal not getting an infection, plain and simple. Had he placed the yolk inside, it may have well just absorbed or it may have led to sepsis. I'm not a vet, but I am hard pressed to think of ANY vet who would agree with what he did!

I raised and bred ferrets about 25 years ago, long before they were popular in most pet stores. I've handled thousands and would bet I know more about them then some vets do. However, I would NEVER qualify myself as being able to perform surgery on one just because I bred them and knew more then the avarage joe. And to be honest, surgery is what he preformed. Sans sterilty or even the proper needle or sutures.

I commend him in wanting to save a "$40" normal as someone put it on here. It says a lot of his character and integrity AS a breeder. I just think his method was irresponsible AS a breeder. Let a qualified, trained, LICENSED vet do surgery, or at the VERY least, don't post a video showing how and lead others into trying the same thing at home! There is a reason vetrinarians go to school for four plus years to learn this sort of thing.

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I have seen all of your comments here on this thread. Just some food for thought. The video was a documentation of what he did. Whether you agree or not, it can be used in the future as a very good tool for someone that may need this type of help. I had the same situation happen to me, and it was on a Saturday. I went to my local vet in an attempt to get a suture kit, and they would not sell me one. I then asked if they would do the surgery for me, and they told me that they would not do it. Therefore, I could let the animal die, or try myself. It just so happens that I talked to some friends that had relayed Ralph's story to me, and I used the info from this event to determine my course of action.

Some vets may decline to do the surgery for whatever reason, and if you are stuck trying to do this yourself, I think the video is invaluable.

Just my .02,

Yes vets go to school for years for this sort of thing( I am in the process as we speak), and as the person above me said they decide where to draw the line of what they will and wont do based on their opinion...in that school they get told to draw the line at a certain point, a point that they decide for themselves based on their years of schooling. How is their years of schooling more validated than years of seeing, breeding and working with these animals?

Ideally Ralph would have had a surgical suite attached to his snake room whisked the little one in there documented from start to finish his entire clean up, sterilization, and wound closure and made a public service announcement saying that this had a risk of septicemia, infection, dehession and various other complications and had his DVM.

How ever what he did was fairly similar to what would have been done if a vet would have agreed to complete it for him ( and when you first saw that wound, that would have been a BIG IF). They would have cleaned the wound, put what they needed to back inside and stitched her up. Yes they would have worn gloves and had an operating room, but the actual procedure is the same thing.

I still say he did the right thing and that the choice he made was far better than just culling the little thing without giving it a chance, and just look at her now.. an gly tummy but a wonderful looking snake!

sorry for the rant.

Muddoc, while I am truly sorry the vet didn't agree to do the surgery, do you understand there is a reason WHY he refused to give you a suture kit? Because you are not QUALIFIED nor TRAINED to do surgery. If it were that easy, sterile sutures kits would be available in the local pet store or CVS!

If you had a dog that you felt needed surgery and the vet declined due to the fact the surgery may not work or the dog could suffer more, would you take the dog home and do it yourself?

Even if snakes do not feel pain in the sense that we do, I am willing to bet the feel something. There was a gentleman here who posted of a snake being chewed by a mouse left in the cage. Just about EVERYONE stated this guy should have taken the snake to the vet and some were pretty nasty in how they said it. How is THIS any different? Just because the guy breeds them? He is STILL not a vet!

Again, just because this proceedure done the way he did it worked doesn't make it right. Even if it worked out well 9 of 10 times, the one time that a snake gets an infection due to lack of sterility and proper techniques by someone following his video is one time to many. And thus, irresponsible to show it.

Muddoc, you say this happened to you this past Sat. I truly truly wish you and your snake all the best! However, if you find that tomorrow this snake has a very bad life threating infection, would you STILL agree that what he did was right in HOW he did it ( I am NOT arguing that the snake should not have been saved, just saved by a qualified vet)?

Please keep us updated on your snakes progress and please post pics as well of your sutures on him/her.

I think the video was amazing! Some people do not have access to a GOOD reptile vet. I mean, most vets that treat reptiles can diagnose common problems like RIs (which mine could not! The vet tech and I had to convince her the snake had an RI before she'd prescribe meds!), scale rot, and mouth rot, but when it comes to things like this, some are just not knowledgeable enough to do things properly. And like he said on the video, he's had to do this a few times before, so obviously he's had practice. He could have sterilized his tools before use and just didn't film it. I DO think he should have mentioned if he did or not, so that people watching the video that might need to do this same procedure will know to do so, but I think overall the video was very educational.

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Originally Posted by MommaK

Yes vets go to school for years for this sort of thing( I am in the process as we speak), and as the person above me said they decide where to draw the line of what they will and wont do based on their opinion...in that school they get told to draw the line at a certain point, a point that they decide for themselves based on their years of schooling. How is their years of schooling more validated than years of seeing, breeding and working with these animals?

Ideally Ralph would have had a surgical suite attached to his snake room whisked the little one in there documented from start to finish his entire clean up, sterilization, and wound closure and made a public service announcement saying that this had a risk of septicemia, infection, dehession and various other complications and had his DVM.

How ever what he did was fairly similar to what would have been done if a vet would have agreed to complete it for him ( and when you first saw that wound, that would have been a BIG IF). They would have cleaned the wound, put what they needed to back inside and stitched her up. Yes they would have worn gloves and had an operating room, but the actual procedure is the same thing.

I still say he did the right thing and that the choice he made was far better than just culling the little thing without giving it a chance, and just look at her now.. an gly tummy but a wonderful looking snake!

sorry for the rant.

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Ok. I agree that the method he used would be similar to a vets. HOWEVER, he is NOT a vet, as evident by trying to place part of the yolk back into the snakes belly. I realize he has no surgical suite. But sans sterile gloves ( not gloves in an open box across the room as someone said) is even to much a risk for infection.

The years of school MORE then validates a vet over a breeder in the simple aspect that the vet is TRAINED to so such things and not just trying it. If a vet decides against said proceedure it is due to his knowledge of what the out come can and can't be, which is what he is trained to do.

I submit that had the snake died, more then a few who agree with what he did would be just as opposed to it as I am and blamed the guy for not seeking out a vet.

And as you stated, septecemia ( an infection) dehission, bleeding and many many other things need to be considered and watched for post surgery. Nothing is mentioned in either video of that.

I am just afraid that someopne will try something similar to this at home and lose a snake that they should have taken to a vet to be saved. There is a reason vets or doctors don't post thses kind of videos. So that the average joe ( not a breeder with years of experience as he has) doesn't try this at home.

I am sorry I am ranting about this. I am glad this is a forum where there can be open debate.

I just want to clarify something else.

To be a sterile enviorment, all the instruments need to be sterile. Sterlie gloves must be worn. Sterile draps must be used. Sterile technique must be used.

Wether the instruments WERE sterlized prior to him doing this is moot. The fact he touched them without sterile gloves makes them now UNSTERILE. I think some of you confuse clean with sterile. They are two very very different things. The minute any sterile item comes into contact with anything not sterile, it is no longer sterile.

He didn't need an operating room. But the lack of the sterility in things he could have had is wrong, ESPECIALLY seeing as he has done this proceedure before.

I already ranted on the other thread about this same topic...so I'll just pick out a couple pieces.

Watching his other videos, I highly doubt it was a dirty pig sty of an environment. That guy is crazy about washing his hands! The only thing I would change is the thread to fishing wire-as I have spoke with breeders who use that. I know I will run into this one day, I already have my first year breeding.

Growing up on a pig farm we NEVER had a vet come help us when we had an emergency. Had we done that we would have have a lot of dead pigs and the farm would have shut down from all the expenses.I was out there pulling baby pigs out of sows who were about to die because they had complications during labor. And guess what? I didn't have gloves, I didn't drag the pig onto a doctor's table, I didn't wait a 1/2 hour for a vet to get there, I did it right where she was laying as soon as I found her and rinsed my arms off. And you know what else? The sows and majority, if not all, of the babies almost always pulled through. I could go on and on about all the other gross nasty stuff we had to do on the farm ourselves, but I won't bore you with details.

Bottom line, BPs are easy, if they were more sensitive/complicated a vet would be needed. IMO an experienced, confident herper is more than capable.

Brokn, I think we do get your points, truly.

But you have to look at the big picture. Ralph saved its life. He could have just as easily culled it, it isn't even a valuable snake.

He had a far cleaner environment then many VETS have when they work out in the field. Used to be, most Vets were working large animals. You have downed cows in a dirty pasture, with huge prolapses, sheep with torn uterus, emergency surgery in muck pile.

They geld horses in the field. Its far from sterile, yet got performed every day, even nowadays. They do their best to sanitize the wounds, clean and stitch up. Nothing out there is "sterile". Or only for a few seconds.

Yet they often have success. They couldn't tell the farmer, well she is your best milking cow, but I can't shove that mass back into her, because its not sterile and I can't pick her up and move her to my sterile surgery room...

Point is, all you can do is try. He could have taken it to the Vet, but precious time would have elapsed, and the chance of tears of fatal injury would have been great. I would have rather put it into the freezer then leave it in that state till getting to a vet. Emergency vets that are GOOD with reptiles are not something readily available at most times.

Also, I would not compare this snake, with the one that was skinned alive by a rodent. The skinned one was a living open wound. There was nothing to "stich" up and cover up with healthy, living tissue. Those 2 cases cannot be compared.

As long as there was no tears in the guts and they got cleaned and sanitized well, they were well protected by the stitched up skin. And skin that is stitched up before becoming necrotic usually grows back together and heals remarkably well. The biggest fear was infection, but again, there was a good chance the snake could make it, and it did.

What really stood out for me the most, was the compassion with which Ralph handled and spoke off the snake. Even in his comments he mentions how the snake didn't bit him because "it loves him" and its a keeper.

It just goes to show that he has not lost his passion for those animals yet, it has not become a purely financial venue. Or he wouldn't spend the time and effort and "love" on a het pied.

Just my 2 cents.

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Originally Posted by BroknBusted

I am just afraid that someopne will try something similar to this at home and lose a snake that they should have taken to a vet to be saved. There is a reason vets or doctors don't post thses kind of videos. So that the average joe ( not a breeder with years of experience as he has) doesn't try this at home.

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I get what your point is here. I watched the video, and yes, it's awesome that he did this. And yes, it's awesome that the snake has survived. And yes, he may have done this so many times that it will be successful most of the time. And yes, he may have sterilized the instruments and it just wasn't shown. BUT not everyone has the experience with snakes that he has, and may watch this and say, "Hey, all I need is a needle, thread, and I'm good to go." He has probably learned about snakes inside and out being involved with them for so long. Not every reptile enthusiast, hobbyist, ect, has gotten THAT educated. He may not be a vet, but he could still have knowledge on their organs and how they function, which could be why he is able to do this successfully. BUT, your average joe, so to speak, may not take the time to do that, or have the experience to know. It was a great video, showing him saving the life of an adorable snake, and I commend him for that, but I understand what you're saying about just anyone seeing it and feeling they have the knowledge to do this. While it looks like he was just "stuffing guts" back in, there may have been a little more rhyme or reason to it and because some of us aren't as experienced with snakes didn't see.

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Originally Posted by SlitherinSisters

IMO an experienced, confident herper is more than capable.

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I agree. And with the farm stories, while you weren't a vet, you had the experience. I think Brokn's concern is more that the INEXPERIENCED herper would attempt this, not having the knowledge necessary to handle the situation. I don't want to put words in his mouth, but that was how I understood his posts.

As I said, I'm pretty much alone on this one.

So I will leave it with this:

I am glad she lived. I am VERY respectful of this breeders effort to not just let the snake die. Even with the scar, she turned out to be a beautiful snake. And lastly, I VALUE everyone's opinion on here. Almost all of you have FAR FAR more knowledge with BP's then I do. I LOVE this site and thank everyone for letting me debate my side without making me feel like an idiot or without insulting me!

And thanks to SlitheringSister, I feel the need for a BLT for lunch now. LOL.

Thanks all for your educated and well spoken debate!

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Originally Posted by ShortStack

I agree. And with the farm stories, while you weren't a vet, you had the experience. I think Brokn's concern is more that the INEXPERIENCED herper would attempt this, not having the knowledge necessary to handle the situation. I don't want to put words in his mouth, but that was how I understood his posts.

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What she said, but in 10 less post and more eloquently! Thank you!

He saved the animal's life...End of story! If it felt a little pain or discomfort during the procedure...It was for a good cause! 9 times out of 10 this animal would have been culled and most people here would have no issue with it. So...why have an issue with him trying to save the animal? If someone sees this video and feels confident enough to perform such a procedure, then let them try...It is up to them to determin whether or not they are experienced enough to handle this! What people decide to do should not be pinned on Ralph! He merely provided the information and instructions. I think he did a great thing and I support Ralph 110%! :gj:

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Originally Posted by ShortStack

I agree. And with the farm stories, while you weren't a vet, you had the experience. I think Brokn's concern is more that the INEXPERIENCED herper would attempt this, not having the knowledge necessary to handle the situation. I don't want to put words in his mouth, but that was how I understood his posts.

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Hmm, I suppose I could see it in that light. I'm not experienced in stitching up a BP, but I suppose I have a lot of other nasty experience that would help me with this. Plus my mom is an RN and I already begged her to do the stitching part last year when I had a belly split "I'll hold the snake, you poke the needle through" :rofl: I could do it if it were an absolute emergency, but my mum is only a phone call away and she enjoys that stuff :puke:

(we didn't do any stitching last year after I consulted some breeders and they said there was way too much wrong with them to even consider trying)

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Originally Posted by BroknBusted

And thanks to SlitheringSister, I feel the need for a BLT for lunch now. LOL.

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:rofl: No problem! I can't eat Canadian Bacon to this day because it smells just like one of the things we had to do... :puke:

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Originally Posted by demjor19

He saved the animal's life...End of story! If it felt a little pain or discomfort during the procedure...It was for a good cause! 9 times out of 10 this animal would have been culled and most people here would have no issue with it. So...why have an issue with him trying to save the animal? If someone sees this video and feels confident enough to perform such a procedure, then let them try...It is up to them to determin whether or not they are experienced enough to handle this! What people decide to do should not be pinned on Ralph! He merely provided the information and instructions. I think he did a great thing and I support Ralph 110%! :gj:

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Re-read my post. I have NO ISSUE with him trying to save the animals life. In fact I commend the gentleman for it! My issue remains in his method of doing so ( regardless if she lived or not) and the posting of it online. I am not "pinning" anything on Ralph. In fact, I stated it says a LOT of his charcter and integrity to have even tried to save this animal.

Let me ask you this. A LOT of people come on this site, once and done, to ask advice on thier new BP. And always there is sound, experienced and knowledgeable advice given. Myself, I have asked lots of questions and seek out advice on here for things I do not know. Being a BP owner for less then 6 months, I find this site amazing!

Now for my question. Bob the first time BP owner has had his snake for 3 weeks. He went to look at her today and noticed she had a slice in her belly from something in her tank that he didn't realize shouldn't have been in there to begin with and now her intestines were hanging out. Would any of you feel comfortable enough to just say " Here Bob, take a look at this video and do what he did!". I would think no. For THAT reason, I think the video shouldn't be online for the average person to see.

Ralph's experience and knowledge sets him FAR apart from the average person here, myself, and I bet most of us, included. I just think that if ONE person who did not have this experience tried something like this from viewing the video and the snake suffers, then it is one to many. Nothing more, nothing less. MY opinion is it could be a dangerous video to the un-educated. It's not a slame on Ralph or anyone who agrees with the video. It's just my observation.

i know im gonna get hate for this because ralph davis is a god among the ball python community but i feel as if he could have done a better job by using his hands he could of caused an infection he should have used tools or at least gloves

Well I guess this thread just goes to prove that truly "No good deed ever goes unpunished".

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Originally Posted by BroknBusted

Re-read my post. I have NO ISSUE with him trying to save the animals life. In fact I commend the gentleman for it! My issue remains in his method of doing so ( regardless if she lived or not) and the posting of it online. I am not "pinning" anything on Ralph. In fact, I stated it says a LOT of his charcter and integrity to have even tried to save this animal.

Let me ask you this. A LOT of people come on this site, once and done, to ask advice on thier new BP. And always there is sound, experienced and knowledgeable advice given. Myself, I have asked lots of questions and seek out advice on here for things I do not know. Being a BP owner for less then 6 months, I find this site amazing!

Now for my question. Bob the first time BP owner has had his snake for 3 weeks. He went to look at her today and noticed she had a slice in her belly from something in her tank that he didn't realize shouldn't have been in there to begin with and now her intestines were hanging out. Would any of you feel comfortable enough to just say " Here Bob, take a look at this video and do what he did!". I would think no. For THAT reason, I think the video shouldn't be online for the average person to see.

Ralph's experience and knowledge sets him FAR apart from the average person here, myself, and I bet most of us, included. I just think that if ONE person who did not have this experience tried something like this from viewing the video and the snake suffers, then it is one to many. Nothing more, nothing less. MY opinion is it could be a dangerous video to the un-educated. It's not a slame on Ralph or anyone who agrees with the video. It's just my observation.

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I did read your posts (10 or 12 of them stating the same thing). I GET what you are saying! You commend him for what he did, yet seem to condemn his methods? Watch some more of Ralphs vids on youtube and you will see just how anal this guy is with cleaning and sanitizing his snakes enclosures, water bowls, hides, etc. I highly doubt he performed this procedure in some dingy bacteria infested setting. YES in a perfect world he would have taken the animal to a vet (which may have ended worse) or used more properly sterilized tools, gloves, stitches, etc.

I'm not even going to answer your theoretical question, as this only ever seems to escalate arguments on these forums.

I agree Ralph has more BP knowledge than 99% of us on here and maybe this procedure should not be tried by just anyone (in fact I'm sure it shouldn't), but done by the right person under careful conditions could very well yield the same succesful results.

Again...I know exactly what you are saying and do not disagree with you completely. BUT, just because he puts this info on the web does not mean that every hobbyist should try this. That being said...It is great info for someone to use in a last ditch effort to save a life.

I give him props. He cares for every snake!!

I think he did a good thing. It's something that as a large breeder I'm sure he's seen more than a few times. To say he cares about his animals is really an understatement. He obviously weighed out all the pros and cons and knew what he needed to do. When you deal with a large amount of animals you learn things. You learn the best ways to do things and you know you can do them. Should the average Joe do things like this absolutely not. Should Ralph Davis who has been breeding these animals for 20 something yrs or more and dealing with the various emergencies that come with them yes. The average Joe keeping a ball or two probably will not come into contact with a situation like this. I say probably bc who knows what could happen. But the only thing I think Ralph could have added was one of those hey don't try this at home. Beyond that I think we missed the beginning procedures he went through. He obviously keeps a clean environment and I'm sure he did what he needed to do by sterilization. They did put on some paroxide after the stitching was done to further clean the newly stitched wound. These animals though have an amazing system and different immunities or tolerances to bacteria. The animal never missed a meal even after what she went through. So everything was done the way it needed to be hence why the animal didn't get any offset infections. I know now on my fourth year breeding that I myself have seen a baby with a similar problem although not as bad. When you are a breeder or even care for a large amount of animals it's important to learn what to do in the way of different medical emergencies. Running them off to the vet can actually create more stress, for a newborn hatchling that's already weak this can be more detrimental to it's health. It was a judgment call and instead of just freezing it he did exactly what a vet would have done. Without the office service charge, gloves, and suture kit.
Throwing in mho.

Ralph obviously knows what he is doing. He's has a 100% success rate doing the method he shows in the video. While it may not be perfect veterinarian practice, he got the job done. Which he does 100% of the time. I'd personally would use a more sterile practice, but his video is very informative. My fiancee works at the SD Zoo here, and she saw this video and was pretty taken back on the method. Although, Ralph did state that this snake didn't require any antibiotics, but doesn't mean he hasn't needed to run antibiotics on pythons in the past in certain cases. Again, he knows what he is doing and props to the man taking initiative to save a life. Take what you want from his video and apply it in the method you see fit to save a life. :gj:

BroknBusted, this is for you. When you run a business, and that is just what Ralph is doing, those are not "pets". You CANT take a snake that cost 50$ on a good day to the vet. Just walking in to a normal vet and getting seen will cost you 50$, then not to mention the few hundred if not more they will charge you for the actual stitching and doing the EXACT same thing that he did. Would the vets equipment have been more sterile? (Absolutely), is that worth a few hundred dollars? (Absolutely Not). If this was a LOVED pet of a person with out experience take it to vet, its less risky. If This is your business and you take a snake to the vet every time it needs to go, You will be OUT of business very shortly...

Ralph has shown himself quite thick-skinned and able to defend himself; therefore, I have no need to get on any sides.
I was fascinated by the video, I just wish it has been close-captioned so I would have known what was happening.:rage::rofl: