Question about hets.

Ok if you breed a yellow belly het ivory to a bumblebee would the babies be %50 het ivory, %66 het ivory, or %100 het ivory? :confused:

Only the ones that are yellow bellies are the hets for ivory should be 50% on average

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Originally Posted by jason79

Only the ones that are yellow bellies are the hets for ivory should be 50% on average

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ok thank you, wait so if i produce a bumblebelly, pastel yellow belly, yellw belly, or yellow belly spider it will be 50% het ivory on average?

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Originally Posted by Reps4life

Ok if you breed a yellow belly het ivory to a bumblebee would the babies be %50 het ivory, %66 het ivory, or %100 het ivory? :confused:

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In the case of 50%, 66% denominations only apply tot recessive genes, YB is co-dominant the super form being an ivory.

Offsprings are either YB or there are not, there is no guessing it's visual.

In your case

YB X Bee would yield the following =

12.5% Normal
12.5% Pastel
12.5% Yellow Belly
12.5% Spider
12.5% Spider Yellow Belly
12.5% Pastel Yellow Belly
12.5% Bumble Bee
12.5% Bumble Belly

Those odds are per eggs.

If it carries the yellow belly gene it is 100% het for ivory. If not it is not het for ivory. yellow belly is a co-dom so the hets are visible.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

50%, 66% and 100% denominations only apply to recessive genes, YB is co-dominant the super form being an ivory.

In your case

YB X Bee would yield the following =

12.5% Normal
12.5% Pastel
12.5% Yellow Belly
12.5% Spider
12.5% Spider Yellow Belly
12.5% Pastel Yellow Belly
12.5% Bumble Bee
12.5% Bumble Belly

Those odds are per eggs.

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yeah i got that part but my question is...If a yellow belly 100% het ivory is bred to a bee, on average the babies will be 50% het ivory correct? i get confused when it comes to hets sorry.

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Originally Posted by jason79

If it carries the yellow belly gene it is 100% het for ivory. If not it is not het for ivory. yellow belly is a co-dom so the hets are visible.

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oh ok thank you. I understand it now:D

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Originally Posted by Reps4life

yeah i got that part but my question is...If a yellow belly 100% het ivory is bred to a bee, on average the babies will be 50% het ivory correct? i get confused when it comes to hets sorry.

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They are either YB or they are not you will be able to see which one are YB and which one are not therefore no 50% appellation here just the outcomes listed above. ;)

In another words, if you see any offspring with yellow belly character, you will have a chance to hit on ivory when you match him/her with another yellow belly charactered snake.

Het Ivory is really a wrong name! A recessive can only produce hets. Yellow Belly is a co-dom and the super form is an Ivory! The het is visual so it co-dom!

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Originally Posted by seeya205

Het Ivory is really a wrong name! A recessive can only produce hets. Yellow Belly is a co-dom and the super form is an Ivory! The het is visual so it co-dom!

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that is incorrect, all genes have a heterozygous (aka het) and homozygous (sometimes called super) form. Pastel, Yellow Belly, Lesser, het albino, het clown are all heterozygous (het), while super pastel, Ivory, BEL, albino, clown are all homozygous.

being het has nothing with being recessive, co-dom or dom. we just drop the "het" when we talk about co-dom and dom because its visual, doesn't mean it still isn't het.

To the OP: Just call it a yellow belly, its how we talk in the reptile world, we shorten words and drop assumed words... just what we do. Makes it confusing for everyone else lol. the het ivory is just assumed so we don't say it. we don't call pastels, "pastel het super pastel."

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

that is incorrect, all genes have a heterozygous (aka het) and homozygous (sometimes called super) form. Pastel, Yellow Belly, Lesser, het albino, het clown are all heterozygous (het), while super pastel, Ivory, BEL, albino, clown are all homozygous.

being het has nothing with being recessive, co-dom or dom. we just drop the "het" when we talk about co-dom and dom because its visual, doesn't mean it still isn't het.

To the OP: Just call it a yellow belly, its how we talk in the reptile world, we shorten words and drop assumed words... just what we do. Makes it confusing for everyone else lol. the het ivory is just assumed so we don't say it. we don't call pastels, "pastel het super pastel."

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I think this should be changed. We as a group should try to use correct terms. Not that I know all them. But just my $.02

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Originally Posted by LotsaBalls

I think this should be changed. We as a group should try to use correct terms. Not that I know all them. But just my $.02

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Never would be changed, been used too much for the past 10 years. And then it would confuse other people that wouldn't be part of the movement lol.

to me you should just have heterozygous yellow belly and homozygous yellow belly. no ivory at all. it makes sense and isn't so confusing. but at the same time I could see how its a mouthful to say Homozygous Pastel, Homozygous Hypo, Heterozygous Black Pastel, Heterozygous Lesser Platinum instead of Silver Surfer. so i don't think there win either way.

im gonna start saying mojave het for BEL and see how many people i can annoy, cuz when people say yellow belly het for ivory i just get annoyed

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

that is incorrect, all genes have a heterozygous (aka het) and homozygous (sometimes called super) form. Pastel, Yellow Belly, Lesser, het albino, het clown are all heterozygous (het), while super pastel, Ivory, BEL, albino, clown are all homozygous.

being het has nothing with being recessive, co-dom or dom. we just drop the "het" when we talk about co-dom and dom because its visual, doesn't mean it still isn't het.

To the OP: Just call it a yellow belly, its how we talk in the reptile world, we shorten words and drop assumed words... just what we do. Makes it confusing for everyone else lol. the het ivory is just assumed so we don't say it. we don't call pastels, "pastel het super pastel."

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That is basically what I said! I meant that they are not called het Ivory anymore! I said it was a visual het!

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Originally Posted by seeya205

That is basically what I said! I meant that they are not called het Ivory anymore! I said it was a visual het!

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Originally Posted by seeya205

A recessive can only produce hets.

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mostly what I was referring to. Sorry guess we are on the same page

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Originally Posted by mpkeelee

im gonna start saying mojave het for BEL and see how many people i can annoy, cuz when people say yellow belly het for ivory i just get annoyed

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I get annoyed because to me a super mojave shouldn't be called a BEL, come on people it has color.... therefore not Leucistic

I think the system works extremely well. I am new to the whole ball python genetics thing within the last month or so. I have done lots and lots and lots of research. There are few things that I don't understand now. I think saying het ivory or het anything other than referring to a recessive gene is confusing. To me an super form(including ivory) is different than a base because the color and or pattern is different. I look at it as two genes in one. Yes I know that it is the same gene, but now there are two of them in a sense. Whereas a recessive show color with just the one gene. To me het means half of the gene needed to make the color. I know that this is all not "technically" correct but it definately helped me understand it a lot faster looking at it in these ways. When I made my huge spreadsheet, I put super forms of the snakes on the double gene list. Just the way I look at it. Might help some other newbies to see.

I only said yellow belly het ivory because thats what VMS Herps had her listed as. I didnt know that ivory is the super form of yellow belly.

And I think that is part of the problem. I am not saying they were trying to mislead or anything but like that. I do think that some breeders try and take advantage of people who aren't as educated in genetics as others. That is another reason I think things like that shouldn't be used. It is somewhat misleading whether intentionally or not. The uneducated person may think that ivory is a completely different morph when in fact it is just the super form of yellowbelly. My biggest advice and I know this can be very tedious because I did it. Go and make a list of all the base morphs and their super forms. If they have another name other than just super like super pastel then right it like super yellowbelly is ivory or super mojave is a blue eyed leucistic. This list will come in very handy and get you a good foundation to genetics. Research is key to understanding and doing well in this hobby.

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Originally Posted by RemysBalls

And I think that is part of the problem. I am not saying they were trying to mislead or anything but like that. I do think that some breeders try and take advantage of people who aren't as educated in genetics as others. That is another reason I think things like that shouldn't be used. It is somewhat misleading whether intentionally or not. The uneducated person may think that ivory is a completely different morph when in fact it is just the super form of yellowbelly. My biggest advice and I know this can be very tedious because I did it. Go and make a list of all the base morphs and their super forms. If they have another name other than just super like super pastel then right it like super yellowbelly is ivory or super mojave is a blue eyed leucistic. This list will come in very handy and get you a good foundation to genetics. Research is key to understanding and doing well in this hobby.

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Its not taking advantage, its an old school term. When I was first looking at snakes, every yellow belly was advertised as yellow belly het ivory, so people knew it could make ivories. Now people know for the most part, so its not needed anymore, but some people advertise them the old way. though normally i saw it advertised like this..... Yellow Belly (het Ivory).

As my post said I think that SOME people use it to take advantage of the uneducated. I have talked to breeders and know this for a fact. Some like to make it seem like these super forms with other names are different things than just the super form. I called asking questions as if I didn't know and they assumed I didn't know. They try and jack up the price because if a snake is actually het for something like albino or axanthic it is worth more money. So if I call and don't seem like I know they could sell me a "yellowbelly het ivory" for more than they could sell me a "yellowbelly" because I think there is more than one gene at work in this snake. I in no way am saying that all breeders that put these titles are taking advantage but I know that some do. That is why I said people should do their research so they don't get duped. As in any hobby there are people that are not as honest as others. I appreciate all the amazing advice and information I have gotten from lots of breeders and from this site, but I am able to see through a lot of the "scammers" lies because I have done as much research as I have.

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Originally Posted by RemysBalls

As my post said I think that SOME people use it to take advantage of the uneducated. I have talked to breeders and know this for a fact. Some like to make it seem like these super forms with other names are different things than just the super form. I called asking questions as if I didn't know and they assumed I didn't know. They try and jack up the price because if a snake is actually het for something like albino or axanthic it is worth more money. So if I call and don't seem like I know they could sell me a "yellowbelly het ivory" for more than they could sell me a "yellowbelly" because I think there is more than one gene at work in this snake. I in no way am saying that all breeders that put these titles are taking advantage but I know that some do. That is why I said people should do their research so they don't get duped. As in any hobby there are people that are not as honest as others. I appreciate all the amazing advice and information I have gotten from lots of breeders and from this site, but I am able to see through a lot of the "scammers" lies because I have done as much research as I have.

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In any business, you will have people ripping of others! This is why it is so important to do your homework before making any purchase in life! Knowledge is a great tool!

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

I get annoyed because to me a super mojave shouldn't be called a BEL, come on people it has color.... therefore not Leucistic

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Why not?

Leucism is a reduction in pigmentation in animals and humans.

Super Mojo's fit this descriptor quite well...
No where does it say leucism removes 100% color/pattern :confused:

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

Why not?

Leucism is a reduction in pigmentation in animals and humans.

Super Mojo's fit this descriptor quite well...
No where does it say leucism removes 100% color/pattern :confused:

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Bingo there are forms of leucism that have color and pattern, pieds, spiders, calico. So being a Lucy doesn't mean zero color or pattern over the whole animal bit rather a predictable and reproducible mutation that has areas of complete color and patter lose leaving only white.



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I think the yellow belly mentioning ivory goes back a few years when yellow belly was more expensive. Back then there where lots of imported yellow bellies and people would mention when theirs came from a known ivory producing line. Maybe some of the imports may not have turned out to be yellow belly at all. But then some of them turned out to be spectors and whirlwinds so not bad.

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

Why not?

Leucism is a reduction in pigmentation in animals and humans.

Super Mojo's fit this descriptor quite well...
No where does it say leucism removes 100% color/pattern :confused:

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Bingo there are forms of leucism that have color and pattern, pieds, spiders, calico. So being a Lucy doesn't mean zero color or pattern over the whole animal bit rather a predictable and reproducible mutation that has areas of complete color and patter lose leaving only white.

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http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ight=leucistic

I think that what can be looked at right here is maybe the exact definition of a word doesn't really matter. Maybe lucys "technically" should be absent of all color, but that doesn't mean that they can't be labeled as this. Do all spotnoses have spots on there nose? No they don't people can name something whatever they want that is the joy of discovering something new!!!!! Making these categories just helps you be able to know what to expect from putting certain snakes together.