Black Pastel or Cinny???

My first question is: is there a difference? They look very similar as do their supers? If they are different, which is more desirable and why? I was planning on adding a female lesser and a female albino to my collection but my plans have changed and I have decided not to dive into recessive genes just yet and wish to obtain female co-dom morphs only. I will be getting the female lesser and think that a cinnamon/black pastel would complement my other snakes well in the albino's stead. Please share with me your thoughts on this. Thank you.

Look to what you want to produce and go with the snake that makes nicer combos.

I prefer cinny's for bright combos and blacks for dark combos.
A quality cinny will be more than an average black pastel and visa versa.

They are very similar morphs, but they are definitely different. Black pastels have very very intense blacks and really dark golds, whereas the cinnamons tend to be a bit more on the brown side. As supers, the black pastels are pretty much jet black whereas the cinnamon will be very dark brown, and they'll brown out more with age.

Personally I'm more fond of black pastels because of their intense coloring, but that's just a matter of taste.

Another small thing I noticed is that with super black pastels you don't see as much "duckbilling" as you do with the super cinnamons. Correct me if I'm wrong, just a personal observation.

Yes. Black pastels have funky black 'circle/outline inside of their floating alien heads.

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...-Black-Pastels

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Originally Posted by SlitherinSisters

Yes. Black pastels have funky black 'circle/outline inside of their floating alien heads.

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...-Black-Pastels

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+1

Count me as a confirmed black pastel nut...:rolleye2:
http://i968.photobucket.com/albums/a...te/Scarlet.jpg

I'm a cinny nut myself. :D

http://www.constricted.us/balls/imag...dec_brick4.jpg

I just like the pattern on this dude SO much. http://www.constricted.us/images/bigrin01.gif

here is my black pastel and cinny http://i776.photobucket.com/albums/y...s/DSCN0164.jpg http://i776.photobucket.com/albums/y...s/100_0403.jpg

once you see enuff of them its impossible not to be able to tell them apart thats if your looking at good reps of the morph......http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/y...8-24195622.jpg
my cinny female with awesome ringer she is 500and some odd grams now

I have both - and a really nice black pastel is in a league of its own.

I've always preferred cinnie's. This is mine.

Got him breeding to a nice black back female this year.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...ny122209_1.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

I have both - and a really nice black pastel is in a league of its own.

I've always preferred cinnie's. This is mine.

Got him breeding to a nice black back female this year.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...ny122209_1.jpg

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I love his stripe along his neck, he is beautiful!!

This is my Cinny female from Emilio ( Villarino Reptiles) I love how bright she is:

http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/r...ann/Phedre.jpg

We have both in our collection. Cinnamon was first discovered by Greg Graziani (2002) and the Black pastel was BHB. Kevin McCurley says in his book the complete ball python that they are similar traits from a separate, distinct blood line. In our attempt to reduce the sign of Duck Bill in the super we are actually crossing the two in hopes of making a super this year. The cinnamon has more red in its color than the black pastel does. We like both and plan to work both into several projects in the future. I would be hard pressed to limit myself to one or the other as the results of pewters and cinnabee/black bee are all different. I think you have to look at each animal individually and make up your mind that way. We are currently selectively breeding in the hopes of eventually ending up with a solid black back on our cinnies.

Our 2010 baby.

http://www.iherp.com/Gallery/94427/5...XaxSoNjPU6.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dswinton123

once you see enuff of them its impossible not to be able to tell them apart thats if your looking at good reps of the morph......http://i795.photobucket.com/albums/y...8-24195622.jpg
my cinny female with awesome ringer she is 500and some odd grams now

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What do you mean by "ringer". I keep reading that but have not been told what it means. :oops:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

I have both - and a really nice black pastel is in a league of its own.

I've always preferred cinnie's. This is mine.

Got him breeding to a nice black back female this year.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...ny122209_1.jpg

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I like that stripe a lot too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

I have both - and a really nice black pastel is in a league of its own.

I've always preferred cinnie's. This is mine.

Got him breeding to a nice black back female this year.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...ny122209_1.jpg

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That's a gorgeous cinnie. Robin, I don't think you've posted a pic yet of your snakes that I haven't liked.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ladybugzcrunch

What do you mean by "ringer". I keep reading that but have not been told what it means. :oops:

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A snake with a ringer has a white area with otherwise normal body coloration. This is a photo of a normal female of mine with a ringer by its tail.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/j...i/IMG_6719.jpg

That's a nice ringer there Maki. :D

I just had this same dilemma a few months back. I chose a pair of black pastels because I think they look cleaner and I liked the super form better but its all just personal preference. Here are some pics of mine.
http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/...1981/003-1.jpg
http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/...ce1981/009.jpg

:banana:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

I have both - and a really nice black pastel is in a league of its own.

I've always preferred cinnie's. This is mine.

Got him breeding to a nice black back female this year.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...ny122209_1.jpg

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WOW! That is the best looking cinny that I have ever seen. Who did you get it from if you dont mind me asking? I'd like to get one of those for myself.banana:[

Some het Pieds have rings which lets you know it's a true het! Here is a good example of a ringer:

http://i398.photobucket.com/albums/p...9/oasis065.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

I have both - and a really nice black pastel is in a league of its own.

I've always preferred cinnie's. This is mine.

Got him breeding to a nice black back female this year.

http://i37.photobucket.com/albums/e9...ny122209_1.jpg

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That is one amazing cinny! He is beautiful!

I have both but I prefer Cinnies. I have a breeder black pewter male on loan here and when I compare him to our cinny pewter from Greg Graziani I like the cinny pewter WAY better. Both are nice representations of the morphs but the cinny pewter is cleaner and more gray still while the black pewter has a yellow tinge to him.

Here is our female cinny hold back (DD) we produced this year. Her father is also a black back and passed it on to his offspring.

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p268/kpl519/10.jpg
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p268/kpl519/10-1.jpg

Her dad DJ as a hatchling.
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p268/kpl519/DJ2.jpg
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p268/kpl519/DJ4.jpg

I am leaning toward cinny at this point after seeing lots of pictures. It seems though, that some people are calling their cinnamon a black pastel. I think there is a definite confusion in the market. I am leaning this direction because my first breeding with the snake would be with a spider and I like the looks of the cinnabee better than the black bee. Hopefully that first breeding would produce a male cinny which could be bred back to the mother the following year for a super. Those are my long term plans anyway.

I got back into balls after I saw this cinnamon at a show and had to have him. I thought he was the nicest cinnamon i've seen until now seeing rabernets. I prefer the cinnies over the black pastels.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...kos/002-10.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...ckos/018-1.jpg

I really want to pick up a female now.

Chris

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kellysballs

I have both but I prefer Cinnies. I have a breeder black pewter male on loan here and when I compare him to our cinny pewter from Greg Graziani I like the cinny pewter WAY better. Both are nice representations of the morphs but the cinny pewter is cleaner and more gray still while the black pewter has a yellow tinge to him.

Here is our female cinny hold back (DD) we produced this year. Her father is also a black back and passed it on to his offspring.

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p268/kpl519/10.jpg
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p268/kpl519/10-1.jpg

Her dad DJ as a hatchling.
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p268/kpl519/DJ2.jpg
http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p268/kpl519/DJ4.jpg

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Love this female cinny!! Dad is nice also.

I really like both morphs. Here's a few pictures of our female cinny and male black pastel together. I like her because shes very light and has tons of flames on her sides. He's just full of color and is extremely black (he is a VPI Black Satin black pastel).

http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/IMG_3463.jpg

http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/IMG_3465.jpg

http://i859.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/IMG_3461.jpg

Here's my Cinnamon :D He's a strange one indeed though.

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._5712379_n.jpg

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._1728950_n.jpg

http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._5826426_n.jpg

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._2446100_n.jpg

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._3990154_n.jpg

Test breeding is needed with this one though :D