Pythons confiscated from a Cleveland home

It's already starting here in Ohio. For those of you that don't get the Cleveland news, this was on fox 8 last night.

Its a shame.


http://www.fox8.com/news/wjw-pythons...,7930339.story

Ugh!

Just another reminder to never tell my neighbors I have pet snakes. Oh, heavens, she has PYTHONS!

Lol, I love the "carnivorous snakes" part.
That neighbor is nosy and needs to spend less time spying on her neighbors and more time in counseling or visiting local herp societies, trying to figure out why she has such an irrational phobia.
I don't honestly believe she stayed up all night waiting for the snakes. She was willing to come outside to talk to news crews while they were taking the snakes out, wasn't she? :rofl:
Absolutely moronic...

It amazes me how these people's neighbors were in such fear for their lives. They seem to have lived near all those "dangerous to them" snakes for several years with no incidents according to the report. Now due to the neighbors attitude toward another person's hobby they lose all their loved pets.

I have coworkers who feel the same way & believe all my snakes run rampant throughout my home waiting for visitors to come over so they can attack & consume them. The non reptile population will never rest til they kill out the very last snake, including the ones in the wild! :taz:

i like the "they also have lots of sharp teeth" line
moronic is a good word.
"they also poop, like, super big"

If this jerkoff told on me and they took my snakes, I would go buy the biggest loudest dog I could find! Let her worry about that... :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by demjor19

If this jerkoff told on me and they took my snakes, I would go buy the biggest loudest dog I could find! Let her worry about that... :rolleyes:

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While you may not be serious, this type of reaction is one of the reason so many of us are seen in a negative light.

Think before you speak, think twice before you post.

Before every one goes viral on them read what it says. They were suppose to have a PERMIT and didn't. With a permit they could have told the animal people to take a hike. The lesson to learn here is to always be above board with your pets. get the permits and don't violate the law. It only adds fuel to the anti-reptile fear.
One positive note here, the vets looked at the animals and found them to be in excellent shape.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

While you may not be serious, this type of reaction is one of the reason so many of us are seen in a negative light.

Think before you speak, think twice before you post.

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At this point your pets have already been confiscated and dogs are perfectly legal. But I was kidding...I'm not a dog fan...

hmmmm....I don't understand???? Didn't they just pass that executive order but that the ones in possesion currently would be grandfathered in? Im confused as to why they took his snakes?? Prior to this executive order I thought they were legal. Am I thinking wrong?

Its scary how someone can make a call and your whole life/career/ whatever is gone. I am very outspoken as to what I have and do many shows at the local schools to teach children about responsible pet ownership and reptiles in general. I have often thought about ..."omg what if someone calls the game and fish or HSUS on me". But really...cmon on in....I don't keep anything illegal, my animals are housed in the best condidtions and I WILL prove that, they are clean, fed and happy. The only possible problem I can percieve is with my HOA....which are pretty much whack a doodles. Which if they ever went there then we would be going house to house counting fish in tanks!!!!

ahhh tonka...thank you for pointing that out....I did not understand that. But I would think since this just passed that there would be a time frame in which to permit these animals. It wasn't that long ago that it was put into place right?

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Originally Posted by BPelizabeth

ahhh tonka...thank you for pointing that out....I did not understand that. But I would think since this just passed that there would be a time frame in which to permit these animals. It wasn't that long ago that it was put into place right?

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The executive order was passed Jan 6th.

Instead of a grandfather clause they may have had a grace period in which to file for or acquire a permit. Perhaps someone from Ohio could chime in here so we aren't speaking out of ignorance.

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Originally Posted by tonkatoyman

Instead of a grandfather clause they may have had a grace period in which to file for or acquire a permit. Perhaps someone from Ohio could chime in here so we aren't speaking out of ignorance.

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The term I have been hearing is that snakes will be 'grandfathered' in, but permitting will be required...However, I have not spoken to an official about this yet. There still seems to be some grey areas with all of this?

I suspect the officials took advantage of the permit law to satisfy a panicked neighbor. The original owner might even have a case for compensation or returned animals with a little research. Especially with the good health record the animals received. That would help prove competency in handling and caring for the animals.

This is what I found on Cleveland's website. It seams that the permit law went into effect in 2002.





603A.03 Keeping an Exotic Animal Without a Permit Prohibited
(a) No person shall keep or possess or bring into the City, any exotic animal unless the person has first obtained a personal possession permit for the animal from the Commissioner of Assessments and Licenses in accordance with the requirements of this chapter.

(b) No person who owns or has lawful possession of any real property, premises or structure shall keep or possess or allow any other person to keep or possess any exotic animal on the property, premises or structure except in accordance with the provisions of this chapter.

(c) No person shall breed an exotic animal, except in compliance with this chapter.
(Ord. No. 536-01. Passed 6-3-02, eff. 6-10-02)

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Originally Posted by masterofdestiny90

This is what I found on Cleveland's website. It seams that the permit law went into effect in 2002.





603A.03 Keeping an Exotic Animal Without a Permit Prohibited
(a) No person shall keep or possess or bring into the City, any exotic animal unless the person has first obtained a personal possession permit for the animal from the Commissioner of Assessments and Licenses in accordance with the requirements of this chapter.

(b) No person who owns or has lawful possession of any real property, premises or structure shall keep or possess or allow any other person to keep or possess any exotic animal on the property, premises or structure except in accordance with the provisions of this chapter.

(c) No person shall breed an exotic animal, except in compliance with this chapter.
(Ord. No. 536-01. Passed 6-3-02, eff. 6-10-02)

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If this is the case and It appears it is, then the owner goofed by not following the law. Please people "protect our hobby" obey the laws. Don't give people more reasons to point fingers and say "see these things are...":taz:

Thank you so much for clarifying. Let this be a reminder to all to make sure that you are in accordance with your paticular state and city regulations. This is so unfortunate and is another negative light shone upon our industry.

We have to be diligant 100% of the time....they only have to catch 1 exotic owner not following the laws. :colbert:

Its a shame!!!!

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Originally Posted by BPelizabeth

Thank you so much for clarifying. Let this be a reminder to all to make sure that you are in accordance with your paticular state and city regulations. This is so unfortunate and is another negative light shone upon our industry.

We have to be diligant 100% of the time....they only have to catch 1 exotic owner not following the laws. :colbert:

Its a shame!!!!

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And remember it always ends up as headline news in primetime....:colbert:

Here is the link from Cleveland's website for their exotic animals list. It is very extensive.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/clevel...art6_603a.html

The Article stated that the owner had them illegally and frankly I don' care how good of care you took care of your animals, if you aren't following the local laws you're doing nothing but hurting the people who do follow the rules.

I have to chime in here.

A. This HAS NOTHING to do with the executive order Ohio passed. You NEED a PERMIT in Cleveland! He refused so the city took them.

B. This guy has had some of his animals at the Cleveland show a few times. Just to show them off and from what i have seen of them and after talking to him for some time he should have lost them!

C. All that said it's still a black eye for all of us.

I agree he should have followed the law--thanks to everyone who clarified on that. I appreciate it.
What makes me angry though is just the neighbor lady. While I wouldn't wish harm on her, I do wish she'd stop harming herself with irrational fears, and instead of being terrified of the neighbors choice of pet, perhaps discuss with them why they chose them, their behavior, etc.
Or go to a herp society or zoo and see some of the animals.
You don't have to act like she did, staying up all night afraid that the snakes would eat her. :/

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Originally Posted by shelliebear

I agree he should have followed the law--thanks to everyone who clarified on that. I appreciate it.
What makes me angry though is just the neighbor lady. While I wouldn't wish harm on her, I do wish she'd stop harming herself with irrational fears, and instead of being terrified of the neighbors choice of pet, perhaps discuss with them why they chose them, their behavior, etc.
Or go to a herp society or zoo and see some of the animals.
You don't have to act like she did, staying up all night afraid that the snakes would eat her. :/

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I was trying to stay out of this, but this comment has to be quoted.

Sometimes fear is just unexplainable. Some people had bad experiences, and others just have irrational fears of snakes that will NEVER be solved. Trust me, I've educated a few of my friends on snakes and while they understand that my ball pythons would never hurt them or try and "eat" them, they still don't want to see/think/hear about them. For that I respect that they were willing to listen, and they respect that I won't push the issue.

You have to understand that WE as a group are a select few people who enjoy this hobby and know that these snakes aren't man-eaters like the news organizations and government make them out to be. So therefore because we are so select, we have to live by a set of rules, and he didn't live by them. So whether you're mad at her or not, she didn't do anything wrong, except call the wildlife service because she's afraid. If he had the permits the state required, this story wouldn't even be on the news in the first place. ;)

I know she didn't do anything wrong, but I struggle to watch people who have a phobia of something not try to get over it.
In my opinion, life is too short to be scared enough of something that it keeps you awake all night.
All I was saying was my personal opinion. I didn't mean she did anything wrong.
Honestly, I used to have a terrible fear of bees, and so one day I went and sat outside next to where a wasp hive was.
I didn't get stung once. They don't bother me so much anymore.
That's all I meant, was she shouldn't be so afraid of them that it interferes with her life.
Sorry I worded it poorly.

I was once told that for every negative aspect someone is told about a person or thing they must be told 5 positive aspects to counter act that one bad..So think about that when you're talking to people about or hobbie. Be informational and knowledgeable, know about the current laws and about how they effect our hobby and our families.

I was once the guy at work with to many snakes now People barely even remember that I have all of them..why because the negative is gone and they are no longer snakes they are simply my animals..

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Originally Posted by AaronP

The Article stated that the owner had them illegally and frankly I don' care how good of care you took care of your animals, if you aren't following the local laws you're doing nothing but hurting the people who do follow the rules.

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Aaron you are right. The comment I made was with the assumption that the permit law was new. However when we found out that it has been in effect since 2002 then in my opinion he or they have no excuse or recourse except to stand and wave by as the animals are hauled off. Also Freakie-frog and I were at lunch and something he pointed out...the animals were apparently allowed to roam the back yard unsupervised. If he knew he had fearful neighbors...that angers me even more because of the damage it does to the Reptile community.

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Originally Posted by shelliebear

I know she didn't do anything wrong, but I struggle to watch people who have a phobia of something not try to get over it.
In my opinion, life is too short to be scared enough of something that it keeps you awake all night.
All I was saying was my personal opinion. I didn't mean she did anything wrong.
Honestly, I used to have a terrible fear of bees, and so one day I went and sat outside next to where a wasp hive was.
I didn't get stung once. They don't bother me so much anymore.
That's all I meant, was she shouldn't be so afraid of them that it interferes with her life.
Sorry I worded it poorly.

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Shellie, Shellie, Shellie..you went and sat next to a WASP hive? :O:rofl: I think if you had investigated wasps and their behaviors you would have realized that they are NOTHING like bees. You were extremely lucky if you sat next to a hive and weren't disturbed.


Back on Topic... I agree that the owner should have followed the laws in his place of residence to avoid this kind of spotlight on the community.

IMO, ignorance of the laws is usually the undoing of the hobby herper. Venders and breeders that don't abide by the law, usually do so deliberately according to my observations of the things posted on different forums.

I didn't say I wasn't disturbed, I just didn't get stung. :rofl:
I was kind of hoping I would get stung anyway, so the fear would go away.
They annoyed the heck out of me though! XD
Anyways...sorry for off topic. :snake:

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Originally Posted by shelliebear

I didn't say I wasn't disturbed, I just didn't get stung. :rofl:
I was kind of hoping I would get stung anyway, so the fear would go away.
They annoyed the heck out of me though! XD
Anyways...sorry for off topic. :snake:

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If they were really wasps, trust me...if one had stung you, you wouldn't have kept sitting there waiting for more !

I agree, the owner should have been on the up and up with permits, etc. Another black eye for our hobby.

If the neighbor had a TRUE phobia, it is hard to "just get over it".

I used to be scared to death of snakes, where I come from, there aren't any. It wasn't an easy fear to get over, even though now I laugh about it.

I do have a phobia about spiders though, its not as easy as sitting next to a spider or touching one. I can't even fathom the thought of touching one on purpose. I get nauseated just thinking about it. And there are a ton of wolf spiders around here and also brown widows. I'm the only one getting the mail with salad tongs.

Going off on people and belittling them is not going to help. They will only look at us even worse.

Education is the key. And it starts with our children. I used to take snakes and reptiles (the most trustworthy and chill ones) to schools and public parks (with permission of course) for educational "show and tell". Most children don't have that irrational fear that many adults have. It was amazing to see how willing to learn those children were. How fascinated they were and how understanding. They learned to stay away from snakes in the wild , but that they don't have to fear and kill them. They learned that snakes play a role in our eco system.

They learned abit about the fascinating aspects of snakes. They walked away with a new appreciation and in some instances with a true respect and dare I say "love". And the questions I would get, it was hilarious ;)

I respect peoples fears and phobias, but I'm always ready to educate if they are willing to listen.

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Originally Posted by shelliebear

I didn't say I wasn't disturbed, I just didn't get stung. :rofl:
I was kind of hoping I would get stung anyway, so the fear would go away.
They annoyed the heck out of me though! XD
Anyways...sorry for off topic. :snake:

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What if you had an allergic reaction? My wife has a severe allergic reaction to bee stings. I do understand the ideology behind what you were doing, but it may not have been the best practice though?

Sorry, didn't mean to further derail...

Neighbors are just phobic, however alligator and a fifteen footer- youre asking for trouble.

I like how they add ''carnivorous'' in there, to villify the snakes. After all, cats and dogs arent carnivores, oh wait...

What a jackass reporter.

I don't know if you guys have read permit applications but one of the things you give away when applying for one and keeping it order, is your right to privacy.

They have, once you are a legal permit holder, the right to come inspect anytime they want.
They may or may not give you notice. They don't have to have a warrant.

Just so you know. I am not advocating the breaking of any law.

Well, why I'm not keen on having my privacy assaulted that way, I prefer them checking on my animals, over taking them away.

While there may be a mess in a cage overnight, before I get to it, my animals are always taken care of, clean and healthy. If one was looking bad or sick, there would already be proof that I'm taking care of it, with a Vets assistance, if needed.

While it still leaves it open to their discretion what THEY deem proper care, I would hope they are educated about that issue. (Tubs vs. cages, etc)

I guess you would have to choose your poison :( I'd choose not to risk having them confiscated.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

I don't know if you guys have read permit applications but one of the things you give away when applying for one and keeping it order, is your right to privacy.

They have, once you are a legal permit holder, the right to come inspect anytime they want.
They may or may not give you notice. They don't have to have a warrant.

Just so you know. I am not advocating the breaking of any law.

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Originally Posted by zina10

While it still leaves it open to their discretion what THEY deem proper care, I would hope they are educated about that issue. (Tubs vs. cages, etc)

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I know the permit is probally for Large constrictors but I don't think that trying to do things right and abide the law should allow them to take your right to privacy away.

I mean if it comes to the point where I have to get a permit to keep MY ball pythons under MY roof that recieves MY hard earned money for taxes....
If that requires a permit then some people should require a permit just to have kids! I know that may ruffle a few feathers but go to a Walmart on a sunday you'll change your tune.:imslow:

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Originally Posted by RhacHead

If that requires a permit then some people should require a permit just to have kids! I know that may ruffle a few feathers but go to a Walmart on a sunday you'll change your tune.:imslow:

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:rofl:agreed

If a permit is required then that is what the person should have done. I don't think I read where they were roaming in the back unsupervised, but if that were the case then you are asking for trouble. Especially knowing you had a neighbor that was frightened. Shoot Im scared of spiders and bugs...I have friends that keep them but I would really prefer if possible dont pull them out and put them in my face.

I would hope...but then again its a niave thought (wilomn is gonna bust me on this:oops:) that they would NOT take advantage of just walking in due to giving up your rights whenever they felt like it. Maybe if there was cause or reason...I can see.

We will one day become an underground society.


I bet that most people are suposed to have their "exotic" pets registered or to have the proper permits to keep them. Most people don't think about stuff like this, especially if you can go to the local pet shop and purchase one. Must be ok to own it right?

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Originally Posted by wilomn

I don't know if you guys have read permit applications but one of the things you give away when applying for one and keeping it order, is your right to privacy.

They have, once you are a legal permit holder, the right to come inspect anytime they want.
They may or may not give you notice. They don't have to have a warrant.

Just so you know. I am not advocating the breaking of any law.

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It seems that everything is illegal these days. The reason that I do not register my guns is when they do decide to take away our right to bear arms, which they surely will, they won't be taking mine.

My big problem with this story is how the local authorities reacted to it.

In most cities, towns, etc you need a license to own a dog. Usually part of this involves showing the local government proof that the animal is up to date on its shots.

If someone has a dog illegally, by not registering it and/or not getting its shots on time this is a big no-no. BUT when this happens usually what the local authorities do is:

(1) fine the owner for breaking the law and

(2) allow the owner to keep the animal if they pay the fines, get a license, and get those shots done in a timely & respectful manner.

Usually the only time a local government steps in and immediately confiscates the animal is if it's a neglect situation or a hoarding situation or something to that effect. It's pretty rare for dog owners to immediately have their dogs taken away simply by failing to file the right paperwork.

There's simply no reason why this story couldn't have been handled more respectfully. Give the owner a fine, give the owner a window to comply with the law and then take off the kiddie gloves if the owner refuses to take appropriate action.

Yes people need to follow laws as best as they can, but the government should care more about compliance than reacting harshly because of being offended that some citizen dared to break a local regulation. Case in point I know of a story where a woman bought a home in a historical district in some small town and went out of her way to track down some expensive antique light fixtures for her porch that would have been a perfect match to what was originally used based on antique photographs of the property. The owner did not realize that all modifications in the historic district required approval by a board of local officials. When the official(s) spotted the lights on their way in to work one day they responded by (1) fining her, (2) forcing her to take them down, (3) refused to ever grant her approval for putting them back on. Such over-reactions are counter productive, mean-spirited, and boarder on paternalism tyranny. The purpose of the historic district was to do exactly what this lady did, and they should have worked with her since that would have benefited the entire community.

TL;DR People need to try working with each other first.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

I don't know if you guys have read permit applications but one of the things you give away when applying for one and keeping it order, is your right to privacy.

They have, once you are a legal permit holder, the right to come inspect anytime they want.
They may or may not give you notice. They don't have to have a warrant.

Just so you know. I am not advocating the breaking of any law.

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It varies from place to place,
but here, just owning animals (ie dogs and cats even) gives the right to Animal Control or other authorities to inspect .So in some places you're already open for that just by having a dog..

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Originally Posted by girlundertherainbow

It varies from place to place,
but here, just owning animals (ie dogs and cats even) gives the right to Animal Control or other authorities to inspect .So in some places you're already open for that just by having a dog..

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They can "inspect" which means look around your house, they can't unlawfully enter your home without a warrant no matter what you own.

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Originally Posted by Mikkwa

believe all my snakes run rampant throughout my home waiting for visitors to come over so they can attack & consume them.

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Mine do, hehehehehe

Someone should tell the idiot neighbour that snakes live in the wild hahahaha.

Did she think that people are selling there houses because some nosey tool is consistently staring at them watching there every move? She probably took shifts with her husband on neighbourhood watch at night lol.

He should have had a permit or moved somewhere that "exotic" pets are legal. I still think the neighbour should but out though and mind her own business.

I love the comment on "snakes have lots of sharp teeth". So does like almost every single other animal on the planet, tool.

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Originally Posted by BbyBoa

They can "inspect" which means look around your house, they can't unlawfully enter your home without a warrant no matter what you own.

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You may want to read the fine print. You may well be in error.

i've got some R rated dialogue for this poor persons neighbors, but im gonna keep it PG:
If you dont like snakes thats fine, just dont make it illegeal to own them. Think how would you like it if someone came and took you dog or cat away. Also, people regularley spend more than 3 BILLION dollars each year on herps and herp maintanince.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGG GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

P.S. yes the law stated that if you have large constricting snake you may keep them but you cant sell them or breed them.

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Originally Posted by BbyBoa

They can "inspect" which means look around your house, they can't unlawfully enter your home without a warrant no matter what you own.

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"They" CAN come into your home without a warrant now.. For any reason. Anyone can say they think you are a terrorist or you have drugs etc.. Ever since 911 that "right" pretty much no longer exists. We are but one step away from being under marshal law.

The sad part is, every new law or ban or permit regulation, gives them more rights and takes more of ours away.

If I was that person, I would do everything I could to get permits for reptiles and slowly begin to get more. Then if the neighbor freaks out again, there would be nothing they could do.

Irrational fear should never be used to hurt another person. Period. This woman purposely hurt her neighbor.

to play devil's advocate, if the guy was parading his snakes and alligators around his yard he was being ignorant to mainstream society's views of large reptiles (or reptiles in general) especially with retarded neighbors who need to figure their lives out preferably with some ambien and xanax lol

while I am a very proud owner of reptiles, I (as I am sure most of you on here) am very careful on who I tell that I have reptiles, how I speak about them, and how I present them... because I know that MOST people have a general fear of snakes (or reptiles) ... IMHO...

but I think there are a lot more important things that our tax dollars should be spent on ...

gotta love the horrendous thought of keeping your snakes in "PLASTIC CRATES" (:rofl:)

Yeah like there is a difference between glass, plexiglass, and plastic! Oh no! Those snakes aren't kept in prada cages! Poor things!