What is the bp market like?

So it seems like I am obsessed with ball pythons and love the idea of breeding them. However I'm not entirely sure on how easy it is to sell them. I'm especially concerned about normal ball pythons. Are they easy to sell? Obviously you realize that I would be starting off on a smaller budget. Is it worth doing this on a business aspect? Or should I save more money to enter with better morphs from the start? Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.

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Originally Posted by Goang

So it seems like I am obsessed with ball pythons and love the idea of breeding them. However I'm not entirely sure on how easy it is to sell them. I'm especially concerned about normal ball pythons. Are they easy to sell? Obviously you realize that I would be starting off on a smaller budget. Is it worth doing this on a business aspect? Or should I save more money to enter with better morphs from the start? Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.

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DO NOT ENTER THIS HOBBY THINKING YOU WILL MAKE LOTS OF MONEY! This is not a hobby to get into if you do not TOTALY understand the needs of the animal first.I suggest you buy one AFTER you learn the neccasary husbandry needs.Then and only then think about POSSIBLY breeding someday.

Hey thanks for the quick reply, I'm definitely not just jumping into this and totally understand what you are saying. Now I'm not looking to quick rich quick... honestly just curious on how flooded the market is. Again I said I love the IDEA of breeding them. Who knows if the idea will ever sprout.

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Originally Posted by Goang

Hey thanks for the quick reply, I'm definitely not just jumping into this and totally understand what you are saying. Now I'm not looking to quick rich quick... honestly just curious on how flooded the market is. Again I said I love the IDEA of breeding them. Who knows if the idea will ever sprout.

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Well i have been doing the keeping part for around 16yrs and have only bred 3yrs.When i did sell something i put it back into supplies for my snakes pretty much lol.The snakes we paid say $1000 for a year or two ago are now $400.So its pretty soaked :(

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Originally Posted by joepythons

DO NOT ENTER THIS HOBBY THINKING YOU WILL MAKE LOTS OF MONEY! This is not a hobby to get into if you do not TOTALY understand the needs of the animal first.I suggest you buy one AFTER you learn the neccasary husbandry needs.Then and only then think about POSSIBLY breeding someday.

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I agree x10.

Personally in my first year alone I have put around $1300-$1500 into just snakes and housing for them...thats not counting the food/energy bills for them. And I know hands down I will not see any returns for another 2-3 years, and even when I do see some returns I might make back my initial investment(if I'm lucky)but I'll still be in the hole for 2-3 years of food/energy bills. I recommend only getting deep into this hobby if you have a few thousand dollars to blow on them. Pretty much I got into it cause I love it.

On the other hand if you're going to be producing one, maybe two clutches a year, I'd say you should be able to sell your hatchlings. There are many classifieds to sell snakes on and most local petstores will buy normals two or three at a time at a wholesale price(ie. $15-$25)

My best advice is to do it cause you love it, not for the money. and good luck!:gj:

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Originally Posted by Goang

honestly just curious on how flooded the market is.

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The optimistic, but true answer is the market is growing.

The pessimistic, but true answer is that morph prices are falling fast, and have been for many years.

An honest answer that does not take sides, but does not bode well for profit either, is that the market is growing, but BP morphs are being bred faster than demand for them can grow.

Thanks for the replies. It would be great if the market would stand up to where I would be able to fund my hobby by my hobby. I know I would become obsessed if I started this up. It would be a huge shame if I would not be able to keep funding it. How did you first start Powerspythons? What did that 1500 bucks get ya and where are you at right now? Are there any breeding journals on this site. Somebody tracking their breeding from the start? I would love to read one of those.

Also everyone keeps looking at this as a hobby, are there any of you out there looking at breeding pythons strictly as a business? I mean of course you would love and care for the animals, I'm not saying heartlessly a business.

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Originally Posted by Goang

Also everyone keeps looking at this as a hobby, are there any of you out there looking at breeding pythons strictly as a business? I mean of course you would love and care for the animals, I'm not saying heartlessly a business.

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I'm looking at it more as of a hobby and possibly a long-term investment than a business. I love these critters too much to only see dollar signs.

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Originally Posted by Goang

Also everyone keeps looking at this as a hobby, are there any of you out there looking at breeding pythons strictly as a business? I mean of course you would love and care for the animals, I'm not saying heartlessly a business.

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honestly I think I can vouch for most people/breeders when I say no one really picked up a ball python and said to themselves I want to jump right into making a business that will sustain my living habits and give me enough cash to buy new morphs. I cared for a normal female for 7 years before I got into breeding them and I cannot stress enough the importance of learning good husbandry techniques and just generally being able to know what it is your snake requires due to your knowledge and careful attention to your animal. for most of us, even the top breeders, this is a hobby and ball pythons are what we love, if we can someday break even or even better turn our passion into a full time job then thats the dream but for now we all just do what we love to do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. Xan Powers!

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Originally Posted by Goang

Also everyone keeps looking at this as a hobby, are there any of you out there looking at breeding pythons strictly as a business? I mean of course you would love and care for the animals, I'm not saying heartlessly a business.

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Ralph Davis is the only Breeder that does mainly Ball Pythons and he still has a General contracting company that he goes to work at everyday. There are others that do this full time but ask them and they have cut there breeding down to try and concur with the growth of the hobbyist breeder. You will not find many on the site that are a full time breeder because that is just so hard to do. Can the babies you produce fund your collection? Probably not and I say that because there will always be money to pay for rodents or electricity and no babies to sell.

I havent been into snakes long but I am thinking of breeding for the morph I want mainly because I cannot afford to drop 1k plus on one snake. Would it be nice to live a dream of my snakes supporting me? Yes. In reality I know they are not cheap to upkeep and there is always something that needs to be bought. When we got up to 5 I noticed my electricity bill go up a bit, sure will hate to see it when we get up to 30 or more snakes:O

In my opinion, it is extremely flooded. As long as you know how to market your animals, you should not have a problem selling them. You just have to know how to price them, and get your name out there. Prices are falling very quickly, so you will not likely make much money unless you invest heavily in the high-dollar morphs. They are fun to breed regardless of the market prices.

The future of the ball market is selective breeding...you can't just throw a couple snakes together and expect to get top dollar for the babies. You have to be patient, maybe willing to spend more for your animals, plan your breedings carefully, and produce the best examples of the morphs you choose to work with. It would also be cool to see bp's move in the direction of say dogs/horses/cats, etc. where they have shows to display and judge people's animals and give recognition to those breeders producing the best of the best...

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Originally Posted by sho220

The future of the ball market is selective breeding...you can't just throw a couple snakes together and expect to get top dollar for the babies. You have to be patient, maybe willing to spend more for your animals, plan your breedings carefully, and produce the best examples of the morphs you choose to work with. It would also be cool to see bp's move in the direction of say dogs/horses/cats, etc. where they have shows to display and judge people's animals and give recognition to those breeders producing the best of the best...

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I like this thought.

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Originally Posted by sho220

The future of the ball market is selective breeding...you can't just throw a couple snakes together and expect to get top dollar for the babies. You have to be patient, maybe willing to spend more for your animals, plan your breedings carefully, and produce the best examples of the morphs you choose to work with. It would also be cool to see bp's move in the direction of say dogs/horses/cats, etc. where they have shows to display and judge people's animals and give recognition to those breeders producing the best of the best...

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If we want these kind of shows, we can't wait for some outside group to offer it. It's up to us, those in the community who wish to see these things, to develop and promote them. I'm sure with the many reptileshows nationwide, the venue is already there, we just need the initiative to get it going.

Normals are the easiest to sell. Its the single co-dom morphs that are a bit of a challenge to sell. The market is FULL of them and people are willing to slash prices just to move them.
Don't do it for money, do it for the love of Ball Pythons.

I may be just restating what's already been said but here's my .02. I don't think anyone here would try to discourage you from breeding, but breeding as a business just isn't terribly realistic, at least not in the short term. I'm not a breeder as of yet but my girlfriend and i have begun purchasing animals and plan to break into breeding next season. We have accepted the fact that our animals will not be self sufficient for several years but we too have morphs we can't afford and hope to produce and if we make a little money along the way. If you love the animals and enjoy raising them as we do by all means breed but if youre hoping to profit from it any time soon maybe breeding isn't for you.

On a side note if you do decide to breed these boards are an excellent place for information the members here are extremely knowledgable and very helpful. So good luck and have fun!

I personally DO feel the market is flooded. You are GOING to have normals in most of the co dom and recessive morphs you work with, selling those normals can be difficult. A petstore isn't going to buy from somebody just cause they have normals, you need to have a reputation with them for good animals. They don't want their customers complaining to them because the animals aren't up to quality.

Also when it comes to selling your animals, There is currently only one company that will ship them legally and you need to be certified, FedEx. Selling local is almost impossible, unless you have a friend with a vendor table at a local expo.

The market is flooded with pastels, spiders, mojaves, cinnamons, lessers, about every single simple morph is out there by the hundreds and it's just an all out war to see who can grab the customers attention with the lowest price SHIPPED!!!!

I thought about breeding and bought an albino and a spider, sold them. Then bought a bumble bee, pinstripe and a large normal, sold them. Then i decided to stop worrying about breeding a just buy what i wanted. Now i have BRB's, a GTP, my dream piebald, and my rescued normals.

I bought some possible het piebalds since it's worth the risk for the price i paid, so in a couple years if i want to take the risk, i can go ahead and breed them for that elusive piebald!!

From my perspective, this is not the hobby to get into unless your willing to spend $10,000 on just snakes to get the hottest morphs. But then you have to create a reputation, get good feedback, buy all the necessary supplies, and that all takes time and even more money.

I've been keeping snakes for about 2 years and have spent almost $4,000. The snakes i sold i either made my money back or lost a good bit. I never have made money because the prices of morphs keeps going down every season.

You have a lot to think about, I'm done, my fingers hurt :P.

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Originally Posted by Goang

So it seems like I am obsessed with ball pythons and love the idea of breeding them. However I'm not entirely sure on how easy it is to sell them. I'm especially concerned about normal ball pythons. Are they easy to sell? Obviously you realize that I would be starting off on a smaller budget. Is it worth doing this on a business aspect? Or should I save more money to enter with better morphs from the start? Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated.

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Normal are easy to sell, craigslist their gone in a day, morphs are the ones that are hard to sell, I had to get rid of my lessers at stupid low prices because no one will buy from a nobody like me. snakes are a bad business to get into the risk is so much greater vs money to be made than other things you can do, your better off playing the scam stock market. I just do it because I want the high end morphs, I love em, its like artwork to me. The other babies I produce along the way, i just hope they make someone else happy. I don't do it for the money, I just want to acquire the high end morphs lol.

put it perspective I've spend over 10K total on everything, and ive made about 700 dollars so far

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

put it perspective I've spend over 10K total on everything, and ive made about 700 dollars so far

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That hurts.........:groinkick:groinkick

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Originally Posted by Goang

Thanks for the replies. It would be great if the market would stand up to where I would be able to fund my hobby by my hobby. I know I would become obsessed if I started this up. It would be a huge shame if I would not be able to keep funding it. How did you first start Powerspythons? What did that 1500 bucks get ya and where are you at right now? Are there any breeding journals on this site. Somebody tracking their breeding from the start? I would love to read one of those.

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$1500 got me a DIY melamine rack that holds a total of 15 28qt sterilite tubs(3 tubs wide x 5 tubs high) with 4" belly heat controlled by a herpstat thermostat. As far as snakes I got 11 2010s, one 2009 and one 2004(you can see what they are in my signature) If you want a video description you can check out my youtube channel which is also in my signature.

Also another $200-$300 is going to convert my current rack system into two racks that hold a total of 22 28qt sterilites(2 racks of a single row of 11 tubs high). Plus 2 racks to breed rats in because I've found that it could be cheaper in the long run than buying frozen(and cuz I want to try it.lol), thats another $200-$300 to build the racks and fill them with rats +monthly maintenance costs of around $40-$60. Plus another $??? because once you start buying them its really hard to stop..

Then around 2-3 years down the line once you start breeding you're going to need an incubator, and for more than 4 clutches an incubator can cost up to $200 depending on how you do it. And then you have to think about hatchling caging, because your snakes may sell, but they wont sell right out of the egg, and some might not sell at all. The hatchling rack I plan to build is again a DIY melamine rack that will hold 34 shoebox tubs that is gonna cost around $150-$200. So theres an addition to the investment you have to put in.

So like I said before, you NEED money to get going big in this hobby. And you NEED to be able to let that money sit for 2-3 years before you see any returns.

Oh, and you also have to be ready for the (non financial)stresses that come with keeping BPs. Things like them getting sick, them going off feed(I've had one off feed for nearly 3 months now), them laying HUGE dumps in their tubs that you have to clean up...etc

As everyone has said here, don't get into it for the money! Yeah Justin and I make money from the snakes now but 5 years ago and no one would have know who we are, we breed what we like and we look at what other people like. Don't buy a spider and think you'll make bank it wont happen. We have a harder time selling normals then anything else. Everything else flies out the door! Just know what animals people like and what you like. From the sounds of it you jut need to be able to sell of what you don't want to keep, so breed high quality examples of the morph you like, thats where the key is. Have good examples, be curtious to everyone and keep them healthy!
Like I said our morphs fly out the door, we only have 11, 2010 Morph Ball Pythons for sale right now out of 250+ hatchlings we produced this season!

Have fun with it, if you can afford to get nice stuff you like get it, the fun part is trading with those nicer animals not making money!

Well one day here and I already love the community. Thanks for all the great advise! To be completely honest I'm becoming obsessed with these snakes. I know how my obsessions go and that ends up with me broke. I want to breed because I don't have 10k for a snake. I understand how hard it is to get that snake and I also know I'm not able to keep all of the babies that are not that one special reptile. Just wanted to see what the market was like so I'm not creating a zoo for myself.

Again thanks to all your thoughts and opinions. It seems like if I want to do what is in my head I need a decent budget of 5k or more. Let's hope my tax returns are off the charts, haha.

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Originally Posted by steveboos

Selling local is almost impossible, unless you have a friend with a vendor table at a local expo.

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I've had good luck selling locally, but at a slightly lower price. That's not to screw eveyone else, it's just that your customer base is going to be much smaller if you don't want to mess with shipping, so you have to make some concessions...I gave up trying to sell any normals...my CL posts get flagged constantly...I end up giving them to a local pet store that is pretty good about caring for their reptiles...and good for them if they can make a little scratch of them. It's good to support the local small business owners...another option is to be open to trades. I picked up a nice male Mojo and a female Black Pastel for a male Lesser breeder...it gave my collection a little diversity and the other guy got a great Lesser...win-win...

I was actually wondering why I have not seen any shows like what dogs have. It seems like there would be a large enough audience that would be able to support the events and competitions. Does anyone know of anyone trying it?

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Originally Posted by Powerspythons

$1500 got me a DIY melamine rack that holds a total of 15 28qt sterilite tubs(3 tubs wide x 5 tubs high) with 4" belly heat controlled by a herpstat thermostat.

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Geez, did you coat the melamine in gold? I think it cost me less than that to build three racks each with 18 32qt tubs. That's not including the tubs, water bowls, and hides though.

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Originally Posted by spitzu

Geez, did you coat the melamine in gold? I think it cost me less than that to build three racks each with 18 32qt tubs. That's not including the tubs, water bowls, and hides though.

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I was thinking the same thing!! But i think he was talking about the total investment.

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Originally Posted by spitzu

Geez, did you coat the melamine in gold? I think it cost me less than that to build three racks each with 18 32qt tubs. That's not including the tubs, water bowls, and hides though.

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hahaha, no the melamine rack only cost me ~$300, $100 of which was the thermostat...the $1500 was for the rack and 13 snakes. :P

I would say get a female of any morph that you love and can afford. Make sure she is a high quality of that morph and not just a cheap version of that morph. It will take her 3 years to be a breeder and then you will have experience in caring for balls and you will then know if you want to breed them. High quality snakes produce high quality babies and they will sell alot faster and get you known in the community. I started as just wanting one as a pet then bought morphs once I knew what was out there. I spent alot of cash and just started breeding this season so I have not got anything back. I wrote that money off because it was spent on a pet and you never get money back on a pet! I started breeding because for one, I wanted to experience it and for two, I wanted to sell the babies so I can buy the morphs that I can't afford! i will never make money on my snakes because all or more of the money raised will be just put back in. Always buy morphs that you love because you will be looking at them everyday and caring for them. If you love them then chances are, alot of other will too! Good luck and start small and be patient!!!

I would do what I did to save the stress. I have had my bp for going on three years. about a year ago I knew I wanted to start breeding I did some very very heavy research. Then I started buying things I would need little by little so it didnt hurt me in the long run. I have set up mice/rats from a couple local breeders. I wanted to get my female to the right size befor I looked for a female. I recently have found the female I was looking for in a very nice male pastel that has been well taken care of from a local collector that I knew. Just take it little by little because in the end you need to think about the snakes and if you can take care of them 100%