Albino Water Monitors @ NERD

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQM1eU3M2Z0

i was there last weekend lookin at those. they are crazy. i wasnt too happy when he pulled out the cobra tho.

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Originally Posted by mpkeelee

i was there last weekend lookin at those. they are crazy. i wasnt too happy when he pulled out the cobra tho.

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LOL yea those freak me out a bit too. I prefer them in cages

Wow! That's sweet! Thanks for sharing!

amazing, that makes me want to go visit my wifes family just so I can go there and see his animals : ) I'll just leave it at that and not let my wife know.

Those are super sweet!

Those are beautiful. I have a question for the few monitor experts we have here though.. NERD claims to have many "tame" monitors.. In this vid they talk about imprinting. How they will go to one person and not want to go to anyone else. They are petting the monitors. Playing with them. Etc...

So according to certain people on this forum, those monitors are unhealthy right? Because healthy monitors do not act like this. Am I right?

Inquiring minds want to know.

The animals look nice, but the setups do look a bit small.
Lets see what the pros say. From what I remember, water monitors tend to be a bit more docile for the first few years.

Id like to know how big breeders provide for monitors. From what little I have gleaned, they require tremendous time and lots of space.

Thats why CB monitors cost way more than WC, most lizards are way less profitable than snakes to breed.

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Originally Posted by tsealock

Id like to know how big breeders provide for monitors. From what little I have gleaned, they require tremendous time and lots of space.

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Can't tell you about all the breeders but I can tell you that the monitors at NERD are kept in spacious enclosures and very well cared for.

All the one I encountered there had great dispositions too.

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

Those are beautiful. I have a question for the few monitor experts we have here though.. NERD claims to have many "tame" monitors.. In this vid they talk about imprinting. How they will go to one person and not want to go to anyone else. They are petting the monitors. Playing with them. Etc...

So according to certain people on this forum, those monitors are unhealthy right? Because healthy monitors do not act like this. Am I right?

Inquiring minds want to know.

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Inquiring minds want to know why some people think that a monitor enjoys being touched. Or better yet, that monitors actually enjoy the companionship of humans.

Monitors are not dogs that live by a pack hierarchy or other domesticated animals that seek our approval and attention.

Monitors do not have loyalty to anyone. They live only to eat, crap and make baby monitors. They do not behave with YOU in mind. They don't care about you, they only care that you don't pose a threat to them.

Once this is understood, then the concept of "taming" becomes laughable. A monitor may become habituated to it's owner and learn to accept the owner's presence without showing aggression. Some species of monitors are quicker to become habituated - salvators are one of those species.

Monitors live in a world where they are hunted by animals larger than them. Again, while the presence of the human owner may become accepted because the animal learns there is no threat, that does not mean that the varanid is tame or, as some people claim, enjoy the company of humans.

So someone who "tames" a monitor may have only succeeded in proving to the animal that they pose no threat. I say "may" because it's also possible that the poor animal may just be acting subdued because it's scared to death.

People often "tame" their monitors by allowing them to roam the house, putting them on leashes and treating them like big scaly dogs. This creates a stressed animal and it subjects the animal to living conditions that are not healthy. A monitor roaming your living room does not have access to an acceptable thermal gradient. A monitor on a leash is being forced into a series of stressful situations it does not understand. Just because some species outwardly handle this stress with less aggression than others does not mean that it's not unhealthy and that it won't take it's toll in the long run.

A monitor that is cold, unhealthy and stressed will behave very "tame" indeed. That's why varanid keepers always refer to healthy monitors as not acting "tame" and that once they are given a secure space of there own, with a proper diet and thermal gradient, they often act the very opposite of tame.

"Tame" is a bad word to use in conjunction with varanids. All it takes is a moment of unfamiliarity or the wrong stimulus and the word "tame" becomes a joke. A lot of people have found this out the hard way.

Then again, some people are happy to throw "tame" around in conjunction with retics and other potentially dangerous reptiles........whatever.........

That reply is exactly what I was looking for..

Now my question is.. I understand how closing the eyes is a stress response. "maybe it will go away and leave me alone if I close my eyes because I don't want to be petted on my face"..

I'd like to know why those monitors pretty much willingly came out of their cages or were very curious and smelling everything.

Feeding response maybe?

I honestly want to know what the experienced monitor keepers here think if it.

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

That reply is exactly what I was looking for..

Now my question is.. I understand how closing the eyes is a stress response. "maybe it will go away and leave me alone if I close my eyes because I don't want to be petted on my face"..

I'd like to know why those monitors pretty much willingly came out of their cages or were very curious and smelling everything.

Feeding response maybe?

I honestly want to know what the experienced monitor keepers here think if it.

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As you stated - probably in anticipation of a meal.

As for the smelling - they do that anyway.

A monitor will usually do whatever you want it to do if you have food for it. Ive seen monitors that were very defensive come right out and crawl up arms for food. The albinos are gorgeous as babies. But I dont really care for the adults.

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

Those are beautiful. I have a question for the few monitor experts we have here though.. NERD claims to have many "tame" monitors.. In this vid they talk about imprinting. How they will go to one person and not want to go to anyone else. They are petting the monitors. Playing with them. Etc...

So according to certain people on this forum, those monitors are unhealthy right? Because healthy monitors do not act like this. Am I right?

Inquiring minds want to know.

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im actually gonna disagree with the reply you got before i saw this as i disagree with alot of info he had provided you.. he is correct that a monitor can never really be completly trusted but i disagree they cant be "tamed".. monitors are extreamly smart and just ask any keeper who has had numerous monitors for more then a few years and they will tell u there are some that will want to eat your face and some who will relax next to you.. iv personally seen both.

as for the monitors out of the cage.. its the same idea of u handling a snake for 4 hours is bad.. for a few min to an hour is not gonna hurt em... iv read actually read numerous accounts where monitors and tegus have been aloud to free roam a room with there enclosure door open and had no ill affects.

so i do disagree that a nice or "tame" monitor is unhealthy simply becuse iv seen monitors who are both healthy and nice.. a member on another forum had a 7ft nile who was 14 years old who he would let roam his house and never had a problem.. as long as the knowledge and respect are there then there is no reason u cannot have both a healthy tame monitor

Im gonna stay out of this as I need to take a vacation from all the drama.....lol:rolleyes: I will say...they were beautiful and thank you Maballs for that video. And please.....someone turn the darn computer on for that first monitor as he can't figure it out!!!:P

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Originally Posted by Muddyredneck

im actually gonna disagree with the reply you got before i saw this as i disagree with alot of info he had provided you.. he is correct that a monitor can never really be completly trusted but i disagree they cant be "tamed".. monitors are extreamly smart and just ask any keeper who has had numerous monitors for more then a few years and they will tell u there are some that will want to eat your face and some who will relax next to you.. iv personally seen both.

as for the monitors out of the cage.. its the same idea of u handling a snake for 4 hours is bad.. for a few min to an hour is not gonna hurt em... iv read actually read numerous accounts where monitors and tegus have been aloud to free roam a room with there enclosure door open and had no ill affects.

so i do disagree that a nice or "tame" monitor is unhealthy simply becuse iv seen monitors who are both healthy and nice.. a member on another forum had a 7ft nile who was 14 years old who he would let roam his house and never had a problem.. as long as the knowledge and respect are there then there is no reason u cannot have both a healthy tame monitor

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Yeah, I saw that post too.............about the 14 year old ornatus......

See, I've had several varanids over the years........the largest being a big old mellow ionides. The ionides was a beast and I could pick him up and he'd follow me around the yard - very "dog" like, and if you came over to the house, you might actually think he was tame. Oh yeah, I could make a great show of rubbing his chin and I could fool some people into thinking that ol' Peaches would actually like it...and yes, when I got near his enclosure he'd claw at the front to be let out.

But this was the same "tame" ionides that tail-whipped my wife and nailed the vet. It was the same ionides that I would not trust for one second around my kids, my cats, or to have run of the house.

My dogs are tame. My kids learned to walk holding on to our staffie's back. My cats are tame. My daughter can dress our tortoiseshell up in little outfits in her room. My kids can eat in front of the cats and dogs without worrying about getting attacked. Those dogs and those cats enjoy our attention and show it. They are domesticated and tame animals.

But I was never naive enough to think that in his 12 years with us, that Peaches ever enjoyed my ministrations or was ever tame. At best, he learned to accept my intrusion into his world and at best he learned to share his world and not see me as a threat.

We can go around and around on this all day long - and people can keep chiming in here with things they've seen in other people's animals (or read about) and I can can counter with things I've owned. In the end, as a person who has owned several monitors over the years, I will never use "tame" in conjunction with them......and I will never advocate treating them as such.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

Yeah, I saw that post too.............about the 14 year old ornatus......

See, I've had several varanids over the years........the largest being a big old mellow ionides. The ionides was a beast and I could pick him up and he'd follow me around the yard - very "dog" like, and if you came over to the house, you might actually think he was tame. Oh yeah, I could make a great show of rubbing his chin and I could fool some people into thinking that ol' Peaches would actually like it...and yes, when I got near his enclosure he'd claw at the front to be let out.

But this was the same "tame" ionides that tail-whipped my wife and nailed the vet. It was the same ionides that I would not trust for one second around my kids, my cats, or to have run of the house.

My dogs are tame. My kids learned to walk holding on to our staffie's back. My cats are tame. My daughter can dress our tortoiseshell up in little outfits in her room. My kids can eat in front of the cats and dogs without worrying about getting attacked. Those dogs and those cats enjoy our attention and show it. They are domesticated and tame animals.

But I was never naive enough to think that in his 12 years with us, that Peaches ever enjoyed my ministrations or was ever tame. At best, he learned to accept my intrusion into his world and at best he learned to share his world and not see me as a threat.

We can go around and around on this all day long - and people can keep chiming in here with things they've seen in other people's animals (or read about) and I can can counter with things I've owned. In the end, as a person who has owned several monitors over the years, I will never use "tame" in conjunction with them......and I will never advocate treating them as such.

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i completly agree with the tame part, really i do but being only 20 i have to rely on reading and research as opposed to personal experince as mine is limited so i wont call your experience into question, and after reading your second post i feel we actually agree and it boils down to one defines the term "tame" which im my personal experience is completly overused especially in the reptile community.. none of our reptiles are tame, they like you stated have been conditioned to accept our little intrusions as we all know science has proven snakes get nothing from our interactions. i just think it is not only an unfair stereotype but a false accusation to say all monitors are man eaters and unmanageable or if they are nice enough to allow u near them its not that they are unhealthy just theyv been conditioned to do so.

Although i dont own monitors my fellow herpers who i see every weekend do. also i own tegus, which are the new world version of monitors. so that bieng said here is my opinion:
Monitors can be "tamed" to some degree but the term is vey overused as this is not usuall.
i know and see 8 people with monitors every weekend all of them are called "tame" but only two of them really tame as skiploder said the real "tame" ones need heat. the two people who really have tame monitors give them 4 basking spots throughout theere house. however it has taken them 6 years for them to actually not see them as a threat. This is the same with tegus.
for example when i was twelve i got my first tegus. they were columbian golden and when i bought them at an expo they were cold and seemed very friendly. after leavin them in there enclosure for about three hours when i opened the up to check on them they jumped up bit my fingers and made me bleed. so yes monitors can be "tame but it takes time for them to get used to you.:snake:

Hope this helps,
Jeremy browning
7.8.0 corn snakes ( anery anery motley normal bloodred motley snow amber striped amelanistic )
0.1.0 pastel ball python
1.0.0 bearded dragon
2.2.0 mexican rosy boas
1.1.0 redtail boaconstrictors (normal and hypo both het for cyclone )
3.3.0 orange eyed crocadile skinks
4.2.0 red eyed tree frogs
1.1.0 golden tegus
1.1.0 giant leaf-tailed geckos
1.1.0 satanic leaf-tailed geckos
1.1.0 mossy leaf-tailed geckos
1.1.0 giant day geckos
3.7.12 crested geckos ( harley red harley and green flame tin )
4.10.0 gargoyle geckos ( striped and reticulated )
45.45.8 dart frogs ( tinctorius (cobalt, regina, green sip, powder blue and alanis) auratus ( mint and costa rican ) azureus, leucameleas ( bumblebees ), Dendrobates ventrimaculatus (thumbnail) and many other kinds. ) :snake::snake::snake::snake::snake::snake:


" the people from PETA are no more qualified to talk about reptile ethics than sarah palin is to lead the free world":salute: