Identifying Pastel Lessers

I have a confession to make...Most times I honestly cannot tell the differance between most Lessers and Lesser Pastels:(

Which do you guys think this girl is?
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o...C_0239copy.jpg
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o...C_0245copy.jpg
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o...C_0247copy.jpg
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o...0242copy-1.jpg
http://i116.photobucket.com/albums/o...C_0250copy.jpg
(She's wet because she just finished a soaking treatment for some stuck skin)

I'll bite. Im not very good at this, but Im gonna say lesser pastel. Do I win? lol

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Originally Posted by Courtney281

I'll bite. Im not very good at this, but Im gonna say lesser pastel. Do I win? lol

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lol it's not a quiz, the guy who bred her says she is a Lesser Pastel but I honestly can't see the difference between the Lesser and the Lesser Pastel.

Does anyone know is there a definitive way to tell the difference? Higher yellow or extra blushing maybe?

i voted pastel lesser because of some of the fading but not really sure

She either looks like a very high quality lesser, or a lesser pastel. It's much easier to see as hatchlings.

regardless, either a very BEAUTIFUL lesser. maybe a pastel lesser. either way i realize the money that makes the difference. but its a beauty, guess youll have to prove her out have any plans for her?

Green eyes and faded flames near the belly look Pastel Lesser to me.

This is a hard one for me. All I can say is it looks better then my lesser so I would say lesser pastel. Is she adult?

The blushing says Pastel lesser. Good luck with her shes a beauty either way!

ill post picture of my lessers when i get home,

but I have a lesser with more blushing than that or atleast just as much, also one of my babies is getting some pretty high blushing. thats part of the lesser gene, not just the pastel. I don't see anything pastel, the snake isn't the slightest bit yellow to hint at it. if it is a pastel lesser, its a pretty bad example of one IMO. some my guess would be just a high quality lesser.

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

ill post picture of my lessers when i get home,

but I have a lesser with more blushing than that or atleast just as much, also one of my babies is getting some pretty high blushing. thats part of the lesser gene, not just the pastel. I don't see anything pastel, the snake isn't the slightest bit yellow to hint at it. if it is a pastel lesser, its a pretty bad example of one IMO. some my guess would be just a high quality lesser.

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This is along my lines of reasoning-I am no expert on lessers but I can't see any yellow...

I would guess lesser pastel due to the fading and blushing, and the fact that that's what she was sold to you as :P.

I think the blushing, particularly on the head, is a better indicator than the amount of yellow. I know that when I bought my lesser (not lesser pastel), he had a TON of bright screaming yellow as well as some blushing, and was out of a lesser x pastel clutch. So naturally, I had to ask the breeder how he knew that it wasn't a lesser pastel :rolleyes: (Like, obviously I as the buyer would know better than the breeder, right? :rolleye2: ) He said that the difference between them is obvious in siblings, and one of the major markers is the amount of blushing on the head ...

So again, I'd go with lesser pastel because of A. the blushed out appearance and B. the fact that the breeder presumably saw her next to her regular lesser siblings and therefore should have theoretically had the best basis for comparison.

(I like her, BTW, even if she isn't screamingly yellow ;) )

Im no expert but I say she's a pastel lesser base on her blushings and eye color. And I do agree, its easier to determine the difference of a pastel lesser to a simple lesser when they are still hatchlings.

Pastel lesser to me because of the intense blushing and the light coloring.

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

ill post picture of my lessers when i get home,

but I have a lesser with more blushing than that or atleast just as much, also one of my babies is getting some pretty high blushing. thats part of the lesser gene, not just the pastel. I don't see anything pastel, the snake isn't the slightest bit yellow to hint at it. if it is a pastel lesser, its a pretty bad example of one IMO. some my guess would be just a high quality lesser.

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Keep in mind that snake is probally 2years+. We all know how pastel can start out as screamers and end up browning out. The lesser gene keeps them from really browning out but they do have a duller look to them than when they hatch. My Lesser pastel was the best looking one I had ever laid eyes on when It was a juvie. Now that its nearly 3 years old it looks very similar to that snake. I wouldnt call it a bad example just an older animal.

well my adult lesser is deep in shed, but here a picture of her from a couple months ago, shes around 1100 something grams in the pic if that helps judge anything. she does have a slight head blush, but the pics don't show it i guess.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...r/DSCN0734.jpg

heres a picture of my lesser I produced (not from her), she started with almost zero blushing and has some coming in as she grows up. lighting is really bad, but you can still see she has blushing coming in.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...r/DSCN0814.jpg

now her father has almost no blushing on top, but his sides fade alot. I guess i should add the only pastel lesser adult i've ever seen was at BHB so maybe they have a really nice one and the majority look like that?

so that's my collection, I'd pass on it personally. choice is up to you.

OK I snapped a few pics to help you decide. Side by side heres my Pastel lesser(3years old) male and Lesser female(Just over 2yrs). No fancy lighting just a quick shot.

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h7...15-2011016.jpg

Heres a head shot with both of them. Notice the lighter color eyes and extra blushing on the pastel lesser

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h7...15-2011021.jpg

To put the browning out in perspective heres a few shots of both snakes as juvies

Male Lesser Pastel

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h7..._1-_25-111.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h7...scamera022.jpg

Female Lesser

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h7...e_Lesse_31.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h7...e_Lesse_21.jpg

I hope this was somewhat helpful to you.

Its a Pastel Lesser...

Quality is so so...

With the real nice Pastel Lessers, theres no guessing, the difference is night and day..

Heres a pic of my breeder male, from just shortly after I produced him in 09, pictured next to a regular Lesser sibling, no guessing here!

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u...0/sizedif3.jpg

Here is that same male, next to another sibling, but this sibling is also a Pastel Lesser... You can see how the one one the left might be harder to distinguish from a regular Lesser, so I sent that one to a breeder out west, and kept the the other one to further my selective breeding projects..

http://i164.photobucket.com/albums/u...comparison.jpg

My guess is that yours looked similar to the one on the left above as a youngster..

I should try to get a pic of him these days breeding some morph girls...still no doubt as to what he is at all! lol

I voted Pastel Lesser mainly because of her green eyes

here is my pastel lesser, for example

http://photos.imageevent.com/morgens...e/SAM_0156.JPG

http://photos.imageevent.com/morgens...e/SAM_0150.JPG

I would say due to the blushing, pastel lesser ?

Zina, I love the head on yours! Very cool! Do you know what line of Pastel is in there?

Here's my Pastel Woma with my Pastel Lesser http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/f...aPasLesser.jpg

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Originally Posted by Uncle Festae

Zina, I love the head on yours! Very cool! Do you know what line of Pastel is in there?

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Thank you :) Its what caught my attention as well, fell in love with it :)

Her color is actually just like the snake on the right in your second picture. I have a HARD time capturing her bright yellow color ! She always seems to look washed out in pictures, she has a true bright light yellow color in her pattern.

I was told she was from a citrus (or lemon?) line of pastel.

i may be late, but you can tell its pastel lesser by the eyes. ....


i love pastels.

First of I want to say a big THANK YOU to everyone for all the informative replies, pictures and advice. Everyone has been very helpful.

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Originally Posted by LOSTCOAST_BALLZ

have any plans for her?

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Yes! I have a awesome Killer Bee I would love to bred to her. If I could get a Queen Bee or even a Killer Queen out of that clutch I'm pretty sure I could die a happy man.

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Originally Posted by Serpent_Nirvana

I would guess lesser pastel due to the fading and blushing, and the fact that that's what she was sold to you as :P

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Originally Posted by Serpent_Nirvana

(I like her, BTW, even if she isn't screamingly yellow ;) )

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Thank you:) I don't doubt she is a Pastel Lesser because I bought her from a long time breeder friend and I really don't think he would misled me. What worried me was that as a BP breeder and I couldn't tell difference between her and a nice adult Lesser, I mean what kind of breeder can't tell the subtle difference between morphs? Not a very good one I'd say. But now I know as hatchlings the difference is obvious and for adults you can differentiate mostly by eye color and head blushing.

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Originally Posted by zina10

here is my pastel lesser, for example
I would say due to the blushing, pastel lesser ?

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Thank you for the comparison pictures, you really do have one of the best looking Pastel Lesser's I've seen. It really is a perfect example of the morph. Although I still think my new P. Lesser girl is good looking too, especially for her age.

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Originally Posted by RhacHead

The blushing says Pastel lesser. Good luck with her shes a beauty either way!

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Thank you!

Thank you:) I don't doubt she is a Pastel Lesser because I bought her from a long time breeder friend and I really don't think he would misled me. What worried me was that as a BP breeder and I couldn't tell difference between her and a nice adult Lesser, I mean what kind of breeder can't tell the subtle difference between morphs? Not a very good one I'd say. But now I know as hatchlings the difference is obvious and for adults you can differentiate mostly by eye color and head blushing.

don't be so hard on yourself. the longer you do this, the easier it gets.
I've seen some of the breeders on k.s. have morphs on there that were very questionable. and some of us will bring it up at reptile shows with the other breeders, and we usually all agree. and with new morphs having so many genes in them, it's going to be that this snake came from this breeding, instead of saying what it is.yes, you will be able to see some of what's in it, and the rest, well, maybe we will have possibles like we do with the possible hets!!