My baby Ball Python Kaa died today......

I dont know what happened to end in the death of Kaa. The husbandry was just about perfect, temps on the warm side 88-92, temps on the cold side 80-85. hide spots on both sides, humidity levels were 50-60% at all times, he had water. After I fed him a hopper, Kaa just seemed like he was not ok. He displayed symptoms of IBD but couldnt be the coa because the only snakes he was around are mite free. I found him with a large lump in his stomach that was blue when I got home from school. Can a mouse be so big that it can kill a baby bp? it was hardly bigger than his body, but who knows.. RIP

I don't know what happened, but sorry to hear about him :(

sry 4 ur lost friend

sorry he died. as far as ibd just becuse there are no mites dosent mean he could not get it. its not fully known how ibd is transmitted. i dont think the mouse would be big to kill him. the blue lump sounds like internal bleeding but idk

Thanks guys. I am very confused on what was the cause of death. I am going to research it until i find an answer. Maybe call a few reptile vets and ask.

I think the only way you would know what if you took him to the vet for a "snake autopsy" it starts with an N, but I can never remember what it's called. I believe you have to put the snake in the freezer right away or the vet can do anything. Someone else would have to chime in.

If the rodent wasn't enormous from the mouse then he couldn't have been killed by it. They can eat something a bit larger than themselves. If the mouse was f/t it could have been a bad mouse-left out at the store or thawed while being shipped. If your snake didn't eat for a long time the shock of eating can poise a potential hazard if they are really weak. It's just like any animal, and I believe humans, if they are starved for awhile and you let them eat a big meal their bodies may not be able to handle it and shut down from the shock. I don't know what your situation is, but that's what I know.

If you haven't disposed of the corpse or put it in the freezer, you may want to consider getting a vet to do a necropsy.

My condolences :(

*Edit* About putting it in the freezer -- it can destroy 'evidence' of what killed the animal, so it's usually recommended not to freeze the corpse, as far as I know

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Originally Posted by SlitherinSisters

I think the only way you would know what if you took him to the vet for a "snake autopsy" it starts with an N, but I can never remember what it's called. I believe you have to put the snake in the freezer right away or the vet can do anything. Someone else would have to chime in.

If the rodent wasn't enormous from the mouse then he couldn't have been killed by it. They can eat something a bit larger than themselves. If the mouse was f/t it could have been a bad mouse-left out at the store or thawed while being shipped. If your snake didn't eat for a long time the shock of eating can poise a potential hazard if they are really weak. It's just like any animal, and I believe humans, if they are starved for awhile and you let them eat a big meal their bodies may not be able to handle it and shut down from the shock. I don't know what your situation is, but that's what I know.

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Your close Stephanie, it's called a necropsy and you don't want to freeze the body because it ruins any tissue samples that the vet may want to send out. Most reptiles have the blue spot on their abdomens when they die. I think it has to do with the gall bladder but I'm not a hundred percent sure. I agree though the only way to know for sure is to have a necropsy done. I am very sorry for you loss.

If you want to take it in for a necropsy, don't freeze it!

Put it in the fridge!

Stephanie, the term necropsy is generally used for non human postmortem examination. They usually only use the term autopsies on humans. :)

OP, I'm sorry this happened to you. Sometimes, some animals just do not do as well and don't make it. This sounds like a death you could not control, it's not your fault.

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Originally Posted by ed4281

Your close Stephanie, it's called a necropsy and you don't want to freeze the body because it ruins any tissue samples that the vet may want to send out. Most reptiles have the blue spot on their abdomens when they die. I think it has to do with the gall bladder but I'm not a hundred percent sure. I agree though the only way to know for sure is to have a necropsy done. I am very sorry for you loss.

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The ventral belly of the snake will often have a blue spot after death because the liver swells and presses against the skin; it's pretty normal and doesn't usually indicate any cause of death. Livers are often bluish in color.

I'm so sorry for your loss. :(:tears:

Sorry for your loss. When you posted earlier that your snake was having these symptoms I was afraid it was IBD, and then he died. I would bet my bank account it was IBD unfortunately. How long did you have him for?

Thanks for all the support I appreciate it. Now I just have to decide whether to try again with a new snake =(

Hi,

The fact he regurged his first meal with you 8 days earlier (only two days after you got him? ) makes me think there was something wrong with him when you got him to be honest.

Temperature problems could have caused a regurge and too high temps can also cause the symptoms you describe - but as long as you were measuring them with a digital thermometer inside his hides then the temps you quoted wouldn't have caused either. :confused:

But just in case I would completely clean everything before reusing with another snake.

I'm sorry you had such a rough start to the hobby. :(


dr del

sorry for your loss:(

Sorry to hear about you BP. Doesn't seem like you did anything wrong and you gave the little guy good care. I wouldn't get discouraged to the point of dropping the hobby or your interest in BPs.

Sorry to hear you lost your ball python :(

Im sorry to hear that, sounds terrible. Some animals will just not make it, it is called failure to thrive, remember in the wild the vast majority of offspring will not survive to maturity, many snakes will die in the egg or soon after hatching, or be taken by predators. Atleast you gave the snake a proper and comfortable home for his sadly short life.

Don't give up on snakes! They make amazing pets and will bring you tons of great experiences and companionship for decades to come. If you do decide to get another snake perhaps you should pick an animal which is a little older and better established that way you are assured of its health and vitality, there are many reputable breeders to choose from and most good breeders will not sell an animal unless it has been feeding regularly. A more established snake is way better if it is your first reptile.

sorry for your loss :(

I'm so sorry for your loss :(

Sry 4 ur loss!

So sorry for your loss. It is always hard to lose a beloved pet.

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Originally Posted by majorleaguereptiles

Sorry for your loss. When you posted earlier that your snake was having these symptoms I was afraid it was IBD, and then he died. I would bet my bank account it was IBD unfortunately. How long did you have him for?

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I had him for 10 days. I don't know where IBD would have came from given that none of the other snakes that it was kept with have health issues.

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

The fact he regurged his first meal with you 8 days earlier (only two days after you got him? ) makes me think there was something wrong with him when you got him to be honest.

Temperature problems could have caused a regurge and too high temps can also cause the symptoms you describe - but as long as you were measuring them with a digital thermometer inside his hides then the temps you quoted wouldn't have caused either. :confused:

But just in case I would completely clean everything before reusing with another snake.

I'm sorry you had such a rough start to the hobby. :(


dr del

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Yeah he puked on the 2nd day I got him. At times i felt like he was too cold, because he wasnt warm to the touch. I did buy a UTH but it is for a 5 gallon tank and i have a 20 gallon. I did this to ensure that i wouldnt overheat him. I have boiled his hides, baked and soaked the bark and half log and cleaned the tank inside out. I do plan on getting a new bp in the next week or so. I just am hoping that the mouse I fed him didnt have something wrong with it to cause his death because I now live in a small town and there is only 1 pet store. So either I buy a couple mice at a time (when i go home from college) and bring them with me back to the town i live in or im stuck with a possible bad mouse breeder?

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Originally Posted by majorleaguereptiles

Sorry for your loss. When you posted earlier that your snake was having these symptoms I was afraid it was IBD, and then he died. I would bet my bank account it was IBD unfortunately. How long did you have him for?

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I'll take that bet.

Seriously - let's split the cost of the necropsy. I'm down for half. The OP's vet can e-mail the results to a Robin. She can let us know what the verdict is.

My bet is no IBD.

How much in your bank account?

A blue lump sounds like internal bleeding, as someone else stated. That being the case I would assume his IBD-like behavior could have just been his reaction to the discomfort.

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Originally Posted by sicilian1928

Yeah he puked on the 2nd day I got him. At times i felt like he was too cold, because he wasnt warm to the touch. I did buy a UTH but it is for a 5 gallon tank and i have a 20 gallon. I did this to ensure that i wouldnt overheat him. I have boiled his hides, baked and soaked the bark and half log and cleaned the tank inside out. I do plan on getting a new bp in the next week or so. I just am hoping that the mouse I fed him didnt have something wrong with it to cause his death because I now live in a small town and there is only 1 pet store. So either I buy a couple mice at a time (when i go home from college) and bring them with me back to the town i live in or im stuck with a possible bad mouse breeder?

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Buy bulk frozen feeders online from RodentPro or somewhere comparable. I assume you weren't feeding live? I don't trust pet store feeders, dead or alive.

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Originally Posted by Slyther83

A blue lump sounds like internal bleeding, as someone else stated. That being the case I would assume his IBD-like behavior could have just been his reaction to the discomfort.

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That blue lump is common place in dead snakes.

That "IBD-like" behavior is also common in God knows how many other bacterial, viral and parasitic infections. It also shows up due to chemical and temperature issues.

Interesting- I've never heard of that. Do you know what causes the blue lump to show?

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Originally Posted by Slyther83

A blue lump sounds like internal bleeding, as someone else stated. That being the case I would assume his IBD-like behavior could have just been his reaction to the discomfort.

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I am really hoping this is the case. So does that mean the hopper was just too big and he couldnt regurgitate it back up which caused the death?

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Originally Posted by Slyther83

Buy bulk frozen feeders online from RodentPro or somewhere comparable. I assume you weren't feeding live? I don't trust pet store feeders, dead or alive.

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He and his clutch were raised on live feed so I kept using that.

I have been doing some research and I actually think I got a mouse that was too big and he couldnt puke it back up....I looked at Rodent Pro and their hoppers were barely bigger than a quarter, and the mouse i fed my snake was labeled in the pet store as a hopper but was the size of a weanling. Being a novice they looked similar in size, I believe I am responsible for the death of my snake and this mistake wont ever happen again. The only problem is the small town I live in has a limited supply and the only way i can have an extensive pick of mice is driving about 30 miles away. Any solutions besides frozen mice? could I buy a fuzzy and feed it myself until it gets to the right size? or something along those lines

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Originally Posted by Slyther83

Interesting- I've never heard of that. Do you know what causes the blue lump to show?

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Yes I do. It has already been covered in this thread.

As for him not being able to vomit up the mouse - don't think that was the case either.

So I have thoroughly cleaned the tank, bark, rock, plastic tree, and half log. I plan on getting another bp next week. so if there were any bacteria its gone, and if there were mites they should die with about 10 days without a host, not even taking into consideration that i baked the bark and log and boiled the rock and plastic tree. I do also plan to use smaller mice (I think the size of the mouse I gave him may have been a factor to his death). Given all this should I expect my new snake to die from possibly bacteria, mite or size of mouse???
I cant come up with any other reason that he could have died. FYI my husbandry was just about perfect, temps, humidity, water, hides ect.