What Morphs am I dealing with?

This is a picture of my younger snake I got from a local pet store. Do you think it is an Enchi Morph? Or maybe just a lighter variance of the Normal?
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http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/...umura/baby.jpg

http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/...0101011214.jpg
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This is my larger snake I bought from a friend. I believe it is the Normal Morph.
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http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/...0101011202.jpg

they are both normals. there are many different looking normals out there. they are pretty tho! :gj:

i also see that your two ball pythons are in the same tank. it is better to house them seperatly. take a look around the site, especially the care sheets. you might also want to bump up your humidity. the bigger one looks like it had a bad shed.
just some suggestions!!!

x nicole

Both normals.

This whole "is my snake a morph" thing is one of the biggest cliches on these forums, lol.

So is the lighter one just a lighter morph? Does Normal Morph mean that they have certain pattern of markings? They are just a lot different in color. As you can see the smaller is a lot lighter. If I was ever to breed them together if they are opposite sex would they come out with anything interesting you think? Or just more normals of the same two colors?

Just more normals.

Cliche maybe but I am new to the world of ball pythons. An I have seen the crazy plethora of colors and variations that they come in. Or more accurately what came about from selective breeding. Its not unlike pitbulls. I have a papered blue fawn blue nose pitbull who is gorgeous. Blue nose pits are like different ball python morphs they were selectively bred for aesthetic purposes.

How do they come out with all these Morphs? I mean people would have had to breed them for a long time selecting desirable traits to get ones of so many different colors and patterns.

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Originally Posted by sokonmatsumura

So is the lighter one just a lighter morph? Does Normal Morph mean that they have certain pattern of markings? They are just a lot different in color. As you can see the smaller is a lot lighter. If I was ever to breed them together if they are opposite sex would they come out with anything interesting you think? Or just more normals of the same two colors?

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its not a morph. its just a normal with lighter coloring. normals are not morphs. normals come in all sorts or shapes and sizes of patterns. if you breed them, you might come out with something cool (but it would still be a normal), you might not. most likely just some good looking normals. however, breeding normals, though it can be fun, is not as profitable. before you think of breeding you need to do a lot of preparing. you cant just throw them together and hope for the best. there is a lot of care that goes into it. make sure you have the supplies you need and do your research!!!

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Originally Posted by nicolexdisaster

i also see that your two ball pythons are in the same tank. it is better to house them seperatly. take a look around the site, especially the care sheets. you might also want to bump up your humidity. the bigger one looks like it had a bad shed.
just some suggestions!!!

x nicole

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How can you tell it had a bad shed? What is a good way to bump up humidity? I am very new to this.

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Originally Posted by sokonmatsumura

How can you tell it had a bad shed? What is a good way to bump up humidity? I am very new to this.

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I guess the question would be what does a normal shed look like?

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Originally Posted by sokonmatsumura

How can you tell it had a bad shed? What is a good way to bump up humidity? I am very new to this.

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the snake in the last picture had shed still stuck to her. usually you want a one piece shed without stuck patches...
"So long as the snake sheds completely without retained patches, eye-caps or partial/incomplete sheds requiring special attention or intervention you are doing just fine"


"Methods to raise humidity in the enclosure include but are certainly not limited to misting, placing the water bowl directly above the heat source on the warm end or covering screen lids with Con-Tac paper or plastic wrap, or using a humidifier. Do NOT sacrifice ventilation or otherwise contribute to stagnant air conditions! You can also add a humid hide, giving your python a humidity-rich spot it can hang out in whenever it wants."

you can also soak him/her to help aid in shedding.

x nicole

Is it bad for them to eat inside their habitat? The pet store told me to not do that.

ya just to prevent cage aggression. dont worry people just get semi irratated answering the same questions no worries though. that baby normal is beauty though congrats.

not per say bad to feed them in their tanks but sometimes the snake can confuse your hand for a snack and strike. so if you only have 2 ball pythons i suggest feeding them in a seperate tank or bin. however when you have a lot of snakes it becomes time consuming to feed them all in separte bins. personally i feed mine in their homes (then again i have over 10 snakes) but its not a bad idea to feed them in a seperate tank or bin.

x nicole

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Originally Posted by LOSTCOAST_BALLZ

ya just to prevent cage aggression. dont worry people just get semi irratated answering the same questions no worries though. that baby normal is beauty though congrats.

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Thank you for the compliment. I bought the small ones because I thought it looked different than the usual. The other I got on a chance meet. I am happy with both though, but semi disappointed that I don't have anything special that would breed very interesting babies. I really want an albino, but dont want to pay the amount asked for them. How do people come out with piebalds?

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Originally Posted by sokonmatsumura

Thank you for the compliment. I bought the small ones because I thought it looked different than the usual. The other I got on a chance meet. I am happy with both though, but semi disappointed that I don't have anything special that would breed very interesting babies. I really want an albino, but dont want to pay the amount asked for them. How do people come out with piebalds?

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Holy crap I just realized your from Humboldt County! So am I! My name is Gabe and Im from Scotia where do you live in Humboldt? Do you breed them?

thats tight. not yet I will next season. my girls are almost grown but not yet. i will be producing some very interesting babys when i do though. very happy with my clan. if you dont wanna spend the money order some hets on the internet. like a pair of het albinos. or a pair of het pies and wait for them to mature and hope they prove out.

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Originally Posted by LOSTCOAST_BALLZ

ya just to prevent cage aggression.

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This is debatable. I'm in the camp that for 99.99% of captive snakes, feeding inside the cage will not result in "cage aggression". A lack of interaction, a stressful environment, and an snake's individual personality are the biggest factors in how amenable a snake is to handling.

Ok what is exactly a het?

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Originally Posted by sokonmatsumura

Cliche maybe but I am new to the world of ball pythons. An I have seen the crazy plethora of colors and variations that they come in. Or more accurately what came about from selective breeding. Its not unlike pitbulls. I have a papered blue fawn blue nose pitbull who is gorgeous. Blue nose pits are like different ball python morphs they were selectively bred for aesthetic purposes.

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Originally Posted by sokonmatsumura

How do they come out with all these Morphs? I mean people would have had to breed them for a long time selecting desirable traits to get ones of so many different colors and patterns.

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Almost all base morphs (original single gene morphs) came from one or more wild caught animals that were put into captivity. Those morphs can then be selectively bred.

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Originally Posted by LOSTCOAST_BALLZ

ya just to prevent cage aggression. dont worry people just get semi irratated answering the same questions no worries though. that baby normal is beauty though congrats.

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I think that cage aggression (with ball pythons at least) is a complete myth. The number one reason NOT to move a ball python to another enclosure for feeding is stress. BPs can be very finky eaters and moving them around near feeding time can exacerbate that.

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Originally Posted by sokonmatsumura

Ok what is exactly a het?

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Het refers to heterozygous, or only carrying one copy of a recessive gene. Het animals LOOK normal, but have the genetic potential to create interesting morphs.

wow i cant believe this thread turned into correcting me and my opinnion regarding cage aggression. HAHA ok well in my experience with larger snakes burms etc. u dont feed in there tank simply because your hand becomes a target im sorry that it really chapped your behinds that i said that. I believe that it def. has somthing to do with striking at hands when cahes are opened. also i dont enjoy having a snake eye my hand and lunge out of the tub when i open it simply because he or she assumes its feeding time. this is a joke the guy is asking legit questions and all u can talk about is cage aggression get over it, ur opinion really does not bare more weight than mine :O hahahaha. :please: thanks just help the poster, and i still believe feeding in tub will result in cage "mis fires" if thats better lol. also for your info i feed my snakes in tubs when time is an issue but doing this regularly could easily train your snake.

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Originally Posted by LOSTCOAST_BALLZ

wow i cant believe this thread turned into correcting me and my opinnion regarding cage aggression. HAHA ok well in my experience with larger snakes burms etc. u dont feed in there tank simply because your hand becomes a target im sorry that it really chapped your behinds that i said that. I believe that it def. has somthing to do with striking at hands when cahes are opened. also i dont enjoy having a snake eye my hand and lunge out of the tub when i open it simply because he or she assumes its feeding time. this is a joke the guy is asking legit questions and all u can talk about is cage aggression get over it, ur opinion really does not bare more weight than mine :O hahahaha. :please: thanks just help the poster, and i still believe feeding in tub will result in cage "mis fires" if thats better lol. also for your info i feed my snakes in tubs when time is an issue but doing this regularly could easily train your snake.

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He was just giving the info that in his opinion cage aggression is a myth. You gave your opinion too. I do not think anybody was upset. OP for the record it is your choice to feed in cage, or out. Be aware you can sometimes stress your snake by moving to another area to feed. Then again, no matter the issue there will be different opinions. Just like a rear end, we all have our own opinion. You can ask as many questions as you like and there will be lots of advice, just take them with a grain of salt!

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Originally Posted by LOSTCOAST_BALLZ

wow i cant believe this thread turned into correcting me and my opinnion regarding cage aggression. HAHA ok well in my experience with larger snakes burms etc. u dont feed in there tank simply because your hand becomes a target im sorry that it really chapped your behinds that i said that. I believe that it def. has somthing to do with striking at hands when cahes are opened. also i dont enjoy having a snake eye my hand and lunge out of the tub when i open it simply because he or she assumes its feeding time. this is a joke the guy is asking legit questions and all u can talk about is cage aggression get over it, ur opinion really does not bare more weight than mine :O hahahaha. :please: thanks just help the poster, and i still believe feeding in tub will result in cage "mis fires" if thats better lol. also for your info i feed my snakes in tubs when time is an issue but doing this regularly could easily train your snake.

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If you're referring to my post in this post ( I can't really tell who you are directly referencing), I referred specifically to ball pythons. I don't have experience working with giants so I can't give anyone any reliable advice. Although, I believe this is what hook training is for.

Personally, I'd take hook training a 14+ foot animal over trying to wrestle it back into its cage in feeding mode. That just seems a lot more dangerous to me..

Most people here just want actual evidence that feeding in the cage contributes to "cage aggression"

Anyway, back to our regularly scheduled post.

Normals.

Normals can vary greatly in color and pattern. I threw these four girls together in the tub for this very reason. Every one of them is a different color. There is a girl in the top right, bottom left, and two in the middle, the really bright/yellowish one, and the really really brown one.
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...Isis/038-3.jpg

And if you want any advice they need smaller hides. You can leave the log things in there to fill up space, but the best hides are ones that they have to ball up and squish themselves a bit. Snug hides will promote good feedings, especially in a tank setting. And if it were me I would separate them for several reasons.

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Originally Posted by sokonmatsumura

Ok what is exactly a het?

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if you will take the time to read this forum, it will answer about 95% of every question your asking .. also i would learn all i could and get comfortable with the 2 snakes you have before looking into buying more !!! it will make you a better owner

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Originally Posted by LOSTCOAST_BALLZ

wow i cant believe this thread turned into correcting me and my opinnion regarding cage aggression. HAHA ok well in my experience with larger snakes burms etc. u dont feed in there tank simply because your hand becomes a target im sorry that it really chapped your behinds that i said that. I believe that it def. has somthing to do with striking at hands when cahes are opened. also i dont enjoy having a snake eye my hand and lunge out of the tub when i open it simply because he or she assumes its feeding time. this is a joke the guy is asking legit questions and all u can talk about is cage aggression get over it, ur opinion really does not bare more weight than mine :O hahahaha. :please: thanks just help the poster, and i still believe feeding in tub will result in cage "mis fires" if thats better lol. also for your info i feed my snakes in tubs when time is an issue but doing this regularly could easily train your snake.

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The notion that two people with differing opinion should have equal weight given to their opinion is ludicrous. If you think the sun rising and setting is our perception of the rotation of our planet earth and I think that that Ra is driving his chariot of fire across the sky, we aren't both equally likely to be correct. What is your evidence to support your claims. You are saying that a snake that strikes at your hand is doing so because he thinks your hand is food and that by feeding the snake in another enclosure you can eliminate this behavior. Have you done any studies to prove this. I have seen no evidence to support the theory. It seams to be me that some people came up with a theory that seams reasonable and ran with it with out evidence. The snake could be striking at your hand for a number of reasons. For instance lets assume that you have two people who more or less never handle their snake. The person who feeds their snake in a separate enclosure handles their snake more than someone who does not handle theirs except to clean. That could make someone think that the trick is to feed in a separate enclosure where the trick might be to just handle more often. Now you might say, whats the harm if it works. Well the harm is that some snakes are very susceptible to fasting due to stress. Moving your snake to a feeding tub and back might be fine for some snakes and completely stress out others. My snake gets fed in her cage and has never struck at me. If you are going to put forth a theory and claim it to be fact you have to have evidence that backs up that theory. Having a snake that is fed in its cage and strikes or having a cage that is fed in a feeding tub and does not strike is not evidence for that theory alone. You would need a larger sample set, with a control. That experiment would then be given more weight each time it was shown to be repeatable. Until then the person with no theory at all is more correct as its a default state.

:rolleyes: :cool:

Cage aggression as a problem varies a huge amount between species.

Feeding response driven "aggression" varies even more.

Also, in the case of the giant constrictors, safe beats sorry by a country mile.

In ball pythons it generally isn't a problem. I have fed in seperate enclosures and fed in their enclosures and have found the conditioning to routine to be the main factor in SFE's (Stupid Feeding Errors ).

If your snakes expect food after a set of conditions have been met then any hands introduced after meeting them are asking for it.

I do find my BP's feed better housed seperately and fed in their enclosures.

But then I also know that if I have been prescenting and heating food up with the hairdrier I need to be paying attention when I open their tubs.

If I fed outside of the tub I would then have to pick them up and transfer them ( and transfer them back at the end of it ) that is, whichever way you slice it, twice the chance to get mistaken for food.

But if I haven't been defrosting snake food I can happily open any tub in the place and stick my nose in and expect nothing but mild curiosity and a tounge flick up my nostril. :D

If you have two snakes in the same enclosure however feeding in a seperate enclosure (for at least one of them ) is your only sensible option.


dr del

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Originally Posted by dr del

:rolleyes: :cool:

Cage aggression as a problem varies a huge amount between species.

Feeding response driven "aggression" varies even more.

Also, in the case of the giant constrictors, safe beats sorry by a country mile.

In ball pythons it generally isn't a problem. I have fed in seperate enclosures and fed in their enclosures and have found the conditioning to routine to be the main factor in SFE's (Stupid Feeding Errors ).

If your snakes expect food after a set of conditions have been met then any hands introduced after meeting them are asking for it.

I do find my BP's feed better housed seperately and fed in their enclosures.

But then I also know that if I have been prescenting and heating food up with the hairdrier I need to be paying attention when I open their tubs.

If I fed outside of the tub I would then have to pick them up and transfer them ( and transfer them back at the end of it ) that is, whichever way you slice it, twice the chance to get mistaken for food.

But if I haven't been defrosting snake food I can happily open any tub in the place and stick my nose in and expect nothing but mild curiosity and a tounge flick up my nostril. :D

If you have two snakes in the same enclosure however feeding in a seperate enclosure (for at least one of them ) is your only sensible option.


dr del

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very well put !!!!!

very well put DR DEL.

egapal, lol what a joke. I only say that in reference to condition responses thats all and thats where this " myth " came from. I dont have time nor care to argue with you i was simply stating my opinion which should bare the same weight as others. LOL and your sun example, worthless! the man in the original post stated the pet store told him to not feed in the same home tank, this is a common suggestion especially with people that might not understand snakes behaviors. why people feel the need to challenge my explanation of the advice? i dont know. and then ask for evidence? I dont do it because in my mind, ( this is where my opinion comes in LOL) animals in general are smart enough to pick up and respond to conditioned responses and I dont feel comfortable with my animal when they dont understand its time to be held rather than fed. regardless hook training is great, u have such a wealth of knowledge IM so impressed. lol this is some cyber bullying if i have ever seen it LOL i feel like the outlaw in a western trying to get driven out of town :colbert: i like the people that actually know what they are talking about a lil to much :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by LOSTCOAST_BALLZ

very well put DR DEL.

egapal, lol what a joke. I only say that in reference to condition responses thats all and thats where this " myth " came from. I dont have time nor care to argue with you i was simply stating my opinion which should bare the same weight as others. LOL and your sun example, worthless! the man in the original post stated the pet store told him to not feed in the same home tank, this is a common suggestion especially with people that might not understand snakes behaviors. why people feel the need to challenge my explanation of the advice? i dont know. and then ask for evidence? I dont do it because in my mind, ( this is where my opinion comes in LOL) animals in general are smart enough to pick up and respond to conditioned responses and I dont feel comfortable with my animal when they dont understand its time to be held rather than fed. regardless hook training is great, u have such a wealth of knowledge IM so impressed. lol this is some cyber bullying if i have ever seen it LOL i feel like the outlaw in a western trying to get driven out of town :colbert: i like the people that actually know what they are talking about a lil to much :rolleyes:

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I am certainly not arguing with the reality of conditioned response. I am arguing that you are not giving your animal enough credit. Your animals strongest response will be to the ones it evolved to have. It did not evolve getting fed at the same time every week in a cage or in a tub. It evolved to learn the sites, sounds and smell of prey. I am not saying that this is true of all snake breeds, I am speaking of ball pythons. My research and experience is fairly limited to them. As for what the OP was told at the pet store. If we went by all the advice of the pet store we would all keep our snakes in aquariums designed for fish, use heat lamps best left to bearded dragons, have a half log hide or two, and have a nice stick on analog dial thermometer and hygrometer. Just because you are told something doesn't mean its true.

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Originally Posted by sokonmatsumura

This is a picture of my younger snake I got from a local pet store. Do you think it is an Enchi Morph? Or maybe just a lighter variance of the Normal?
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http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/...umura/baby.jpg

http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/...0101011214.jpg
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This is my larger snake I bought from a friend. I believe it is the Normal Morph.
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http://i1104.photobucket.com/albums/...0101011202.jpg

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I think i may have this "Enchi Morph" mines was sold to me as a 66% het clown but she looks more like a Enchi Morph from the pics i Google so how do you tell if it is?

Ok, I don't want to burst anyone's bubble, but NO ONE especially a pet store, is going to sell ANY morph for the price of a normal.

Sure, pet stores do occasionally get in things like pastels, but they still charge more for them. And an Enchi is going sell for $300+, not $75 down at the local PetCo.

Enchi's are one of several subtle morphs out there, and it takes time to be able to pick them out. But you need to realize the hard truth, no two normals look alike. I've seen them range from burnt orange bodies with chocolate markings to caramel bodies with sand colored markings and everything in between. I've also seen them with patterns so busy they give you a headache to look at them long, and so reduced you'd swear someone erased some of it while they were in the egg.

To be honest, you can find normals to look like a lot of different morphs if you try, it still doesn't mean they are anything but normals.

Now as to the question of what makes a morph, all of the base morphs were wild caught animals that occurred naturally. The designer multi-gene animals were created by us from there. If you read through some of the posts in the Morphs and Genetics section here, you'll figure things out in no time.


Gale

I got my girl from a local breeder he has a lot of spider balls and pastels mostly,but what he sold me was a 66% het clown and she is absolutely beautiful she even has some orange highlights going through her patterns (which are wonderful) normal or not i love her.

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Originally Posted by Egapal

I am certainly not arguing with the reality of conditioned response. I am arguing that you are not giving your animal enough credit. Your animals strongest response will be to the ones it evolved to have. It did not evolve getting fed at the same time every week in a cage or in a tub. It evolved to learn the sites, sounds and smell of prey. I am not saying that this is true of all snake breeds, I am speaking of ball pythons. My research and experience is fairly limited to them. As for what the OP was told at the pet store. If we went by all the advice of the pet store we would all keep our snakes in aquariums designed for fish, use heat lamps best left to bearded dragons, have a half log hide or two, and have a nice stick on analog dial thermometer and hygrometer. Just because you are told something doesn't mean its true.

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LOL..... OK! your probably one of those "my snake loves me people" this is dumb have a good night. lol you have beautiful normals OP feed how u like

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Originally Posted by LOSTCOAST_BALLZ

LOL..... OK! your probably one of those "my snake loves me people" this is dumb have a good night. lol you have beautiful normals OP feed how u like

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Not at all. You can find my thoughts on snakes ability to love in the post thats been popping to the top for awhile. In short I don't believe reptiles have the parts of the brain necessary to feel anything like what we call love. No one has really attacked you at all in this thread. You seam to do a lot of it though.

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Originally Posted by Ballpython1237

I got my girl from a local breeder he has a lot of spider balls and pastels mostly,but what he sold me was a 66% het clown and she is absolutely beautiful she even has some orange highlights going through her patterns (which are wonderful) normal or not i love her.

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if you bought a 66% het clown then you have a normal until proven that it has the clown gene. this can ONLY be proven by mating it with another BP that defenetly has the clown gene.

66% het means that the parents were NOT clowns but were 100% het for clown. this gives your baby a 66% chance that it has 1/2 of the genes needed to make a clown and 33% chance that it is a normal.

Hope this helps

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Originally Posted by Subdriven

if you bought a 66% het clown then you have a normal until proven that it has the clown gene. this can ONLY be proven by mating it with another BP that defenetly has the clown gene.

66% het means that the parents were NOT clowns but were 100% het for clown. this gives your baby a 66% chance that it has 1/2 of the genes needed to make a clown and 33% chance that it is a normal.

Hope this helps

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Thanks for the break down man,that was the best the whole gene thing been broken down to me to were i actually understand it ha ha ( im a lizard guy ,just getting into snakes so go figure lol),hopefully in about 3yrs i can prove her out then.

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Originally Posted by Egapal

Not at all. You can find my thoughts on snakes ability to love in the post thats been popping to the top for awhile. In short I don't believe reptiles have the parts of the brain necessary to feel anything like what we call love. No one has really attacked you at all in this thread. You seam to do a lot of it though.

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:)

We must use strongly "Wild type" instead of normal because normal is simply not a morph. Nice BP's thou!!

just to help the poster, can some one list the specific identifiers for the enchi morph. to finalize and clarify which balls he has. i think it is a wild type with wicked markings BUT the area that we the poster and I live n is not the most reptile savy place. and I believe mistakes are made. but i already stated my guess and have little experience with enchi's

Your best bet is to search here for pictures of Enchi's. Don't go to Google, you'll find pictures of snakes that aren't Enchi, but here if they say it's an Enchi, it almost certainly is.

I know Enchi IS a pattern morph, and that most enchi's have a banded and reduced pattern. I believe they have distinct head patterns as well. Enchi is one of those morph's that can easily be mistaken for a normal if you are inexperienced or it is not the best example of an Enchi.

I myself am not comfortable with identifying Enchi's yet, so if I am in the market for one it will be from a reputable breeder and be an outstanding example of the morph.

Gale