Why would a pet store be selling an ADULT BP?(MN if you want to rescue it)

This week my boyfriend and I went and purchased some hoppers for our BP at a petland store. We discovered an adult BP there(which was not there 2 weeks earlier) going through a bad shed and honestly it was living in deplorable conditions!

It had no temp or humidity gauges and had a tiny shelter that there is no way it could fit itself in. I know BPs like tight secure hides but there is no way an adult BP could even curl up in the hide they had for it. The water dish was also tiny as hell.

We are new-ish owners to our BP and have had issues with maintaining a proper home for our snake but due to the help from some of the members on here I feel we have a good habitat for our snake. If we have more issues obviously we will bring them up here or take our snake to a vet.(but this issue isn't out OUR SNAKE)

My BF and I actually talked about buying the adult BP from petland because we felt sorry for it.(and I also feel damn bad about all the stray cats running around our neighborhood) We decided we don't want 2 snakes though.
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Anyway I have 2 purposes for starting this thread:

1. Why would a pet store be selling an ADULT Ball Python?(seems stange to me)

call the ASPCA they will deal with them tell them what you saw where you saw it and how long ago you seen it... i seen the same thing at petco a few weeks ago but i complained to them and they fixed the situation you might have luck trying the same just go back and complain and good luck

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Originally Posted by Byrdie

call the ASPCA they will deal with them tell them what you saw where you saw it and how long ago you seen it... i seen the same thing at petco a few weeks ago but i complained to them and they fixed the situation you might have luck trying the same just go back and complain and good luck

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I will contact the ASPCA over it because I was frankly disgusted by it's living conditions!

I still have a question though....

Why would a pet store all of a sudden be selling an adult BP that it didn't have 2 weeks earlier???

someone either returned it or didn't want it happens all the time PETco had 2 Adult males in a 10 gal tank no hide no water directly on the glass above the UTH after i left they were both in 20 gal tanks bedding and fresh water >.> i have never been to petland if its a chain store its more than likely the people working there have no idea how to care for the animals and only do as their told but please keep me updated i would like to know what happens to them

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Originally Posted by Byrdie

someone either returned it or didn't want it happens all the time PETco had 2 Adult males in a 10 gal tank no hide no water directly on the glass above the UTH after i left they were both in 20 gal tanks bedding and fresh water >.> i have never been to petland if its a chain store its more than likely the people working there have no idea how to care for the animals and only do as their told but please keep me updated i would like to know what happens to them

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WOW! What you saw was even more mortifying than what I saw! Effing pet stores!!!!

May I ask you for a little more help. I watch Animal Cops all the time and so I know who and what the ASPCA is but when I go to their website it seems like it's all about NYC and Jersey. I live in Minnesota....who should I contact?

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Originally Posted by Superpop

Why would a pet store all of a sudden be selling an adult BP that it didn't have 2 weeks earlier???

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Because alot of times the owners abandon them. A friend of mine is a manager at a pet shop and they have 2 adult BP's that were left there. One was left in a tub by the door during the night. The other was brought in a box. A guy walked in, set it on the counter and walked out. So, while they aren't living in ideal conditions, at least they are being fed and somewhat cared for until somebody buys them. I would talk to the pet store and find out the whole story before going straight to the ASPCA...

i did a little research and found this http://www.animalhumanesociety.org/p...investigations its says the cover the whole of MN so I'm guessing St Paul / twin cities area is included... it's Sunday today so i don't know if the Pet store will even be open but i would call the ASPCA anyway just to inform them check the pet store early Monday morning if it's still that bad i would go outside and call the ASPCA right from the stores location

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Originally Posted by Vypyrz

Because alot of times the owners abandon them. A friend of mine is a manager at a pet shop and they have 2 adult BP's that were left there. One was left in a tub by the door during the night. The other was brought in a box. A guy walked in, set it on the counter and walked out. So, while they aren't living in ideal conditions, at least they are being fed and somewhat cared for until somebody buys them. I would talk to the pet store and find out the whole story before going straight to the ASPCA...

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The two males at petco were there for almost 2 weeks before i showed up ...and there really is no excuse that they are in bad conditions i mean they are in a petstore for gods sake from where the snakes were they had 20-30 tanks for sale on the shelves...not to mention their hides were there in the same isle there is NO excuse for that kind of treatment especially inside a store that sells those supplies

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Originally Posted by Vypyrz

Because alot of times the owners abandon them. A friend of mine is a manager at a pet shop and they have 2 adult BP's that were left there. One was left in a tub by the door during the night. The other was brought in a box. A guy walked in, set it on the counter and walked out. So, while they aren't living in ideal conditions, at least they are being fed and somewhat cared for until somebody buys them. I would talk to the pet store and find out the whole story before going straight to the ASPCA...

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Fair enough. We go shopping at that strip mall almost every week so before I contact the ASPCA I will check and see if the snake is still there and if it is I will inquire about it.

That being said.....the snake IS living in DEPLORABLE conditions as I see it. Being a pet store I find it amazingly awful that they don't have temp/humidity gages in it's enclosure( it's like they are so bad that they don't even pretend to care!

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Originally Posted by Byrdie

i did a little research and found this http://www.animalhumanesociety.org/p...investigations its says the cover the whole of MN so I'm guessing St Paul / twin cities area is included... it's Sunday today so i don't know if the Pet store will even be open but i would call the ASPCA anyway just to inform them check the pet store early Monday morning if it's still that bad i would go outside and call the ASPCA right from the stores location

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I know I said I would wait off in my last post but...THANK YOU!

I won't hold off! I will call today.

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Originally Posted by Superpop

I know I said I would wait off in my last post but...THANK YOU!

I won't hold off! I will call today.

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well i know i would i threatened a PETco manager i was gonna call them and about 30 minutes or so later they fixed the problem so sometimes its just ignorant workers more than anything but yes calling the ASPCA is for the best i would rather have the store in trouble than have that snake suffer for their incompetence

Are you kidding me? Is this a joke? Someone who admits that they have very little experience with this species is threatening the reputation and livelihood of a business owner because he took in an unwanted animal?

And so you want to report them to privately run organizations who are actively trying to end the herp keeping hobby?

I think you need to step back and take another look at what you are doing. There are far too many people in this world today who think they have the right to tell others what to do despite having little knowledge themselves.

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Originally Posted by Superpop

This week my boyfriend and I went and purchased some hoppers for our BP at a petland store. We discovered an adult BP there(which was not there 2 weeks earlier) going through a bad shed and honestly it was living in deplorable conditions!

It had no temp or humidity gauges and had a tiny shelter that there is no way it could fit itself in. I know BPs like tight secure hides but there is no way an adult BP could even curl up in the hide they had for it. The water dish was also tiny as hell.

We are new-ish owners to our BP and have had issues with maintaining a proper home for our snake but due to the help from some of the members on here I feel we have a good habitat for our snake. If we have more issues obviously we will bring them up here or take our snake to a vet.(but this issue isn't out OUR SNAKE)

My BF and I actually talked about buying the adult BP from petland because we felt sorry for it.(and I also feel damn bad about all the stray cats running around our neighborhood) We decided we don't want 2 snakes though.
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Anyway I have 2 purposes for starting this thread:

1. Why would a pet store be selling an ADULT Ball Python?(seems stange to me)

2. If you want to rescue it:

2123 Old Hudson Road
Saint Paul, MN 55119
(651) 731-0556

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Why would so many people want to take such extreme measures without knowing any facts. The OP said the snake wasn't there 2 weeks ago. So maybe the snake was just returned to the store? What if it came into the store in the exact state that she saw it? Maybe the store is actually doing something good for the snake? Do you know if the snake is being abused? No, you do not. She also admits that she's new to snake ownership, so what makes you think the conditions are that bad? I don't believe the OP said anything about the snake being underfed, rat bitened, or any other condition that would indicate abuse. It sounds to me that she just didn't like the setup where the snake was being housed and it was going through a bad shed. A bad shed can be experienced by any snake owner. Do you call the ASPCA on all of us? As far as the enclosure and hide being too small, maybe the pet store doesn't have any enclosures set up to house an adult Ball. But they are doing the best they can with what they have.

The only thing I have a problem with is the QT procedure. The snake should be in a back room until it has been proven to not have any issues. Not sold until it's out of QT.

Just one man's opinion!
Jim Smith

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Originally Posted by MarkS

Are you kidding me? Is this a joke? Someone who admits that they have very little experience with this species is threatening the reputation and livelihood of a business owner because he took in an unwanted animal?

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you are taking this out of context first of all a pet store who sells every supply you would need to care for a Ball Python cant care for them that is the joke a down right shame and if they can start a business and deal in these "exotic" animals then they should know how to care for them

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And so you want to report them to privately run organizations who are actively trying to end the herp keeping hobby?

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so you would rather have the snake suffer and possibly die because the owner mistreated it? trust me you call the police or animal control they will tell you to call the ASPCA so there is no avoiding calling them

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I think you need to step back and take another look at what you are doing. There are far too many people in this world today who think they have the right to tell others what to do despite having little knowledge themselves.

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i might not know much but after reading even one care sheet its VERY obvious when they aren't being cared for properly ESPECIALLY a pet store owner who deals with them every day should know how to care for them so yes defiantly call the ASPCA
so think before you come in here and bash people for doing what IS right for the animal unless maybe you want to go to that store and rescue the animal and then go to EVERY store across the USA or the ENTIRE world and rescue every single one who is being mistreated...

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Originally Posted by j_h_smith

Why would so many people want to take such extreme measures without knowing any facts. The OP said the snake wasn't there 2 weeks ago. So maybe the snake was just returned to the store? What if it came into the store in the exact state that she saw it? Maybe the store is actually doing something good for the snake? Do you know if the snake is being abused? No, you do not. She also admits that she's new to snake ownership, so what makes you think the conditions are that bad? I don't believe the OP said anything about the snake being underfed, rat bitened, or any other condition that would indicate abuse. It sounds to me that she just didn't like the setup where the snake was being housed and it was going through a bad shed. A bad shed can be experienced by any snake owner. Do you call the ASPCA on all of us? As far as the enclosure and hide being too small, maybe the pet store doesn't have any enclosures set up to house an adult Ball. But they are doing the best they can with what they have.

The only thing I have a problem with is the QT procedure. The snake should be in a back room until it has been proven to not have any issues. Not sold until it's out of QT.

Just one man's opinion!
Jim Smith

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Very much agreed upon as i stated in a previous post she should check the store Monday before contacting the ASPCA but as i also stated its a pet store that deals with these animals there is absolutely no reason that snake shouldn't be properly cared for and as for not having a hide big enough for an adult BP 5 minutes of someones time and a 12 pack soda box could fix that not permanent of course but it would suffice until either sold or a bigger hide was found but i still want to call shenanigans on that because it is a pet store even most Mom and Pop shops sell big enough hides

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Originally Posted by Byrdie

you are taking this out of context first of all a pet store who sells every supply you would need to care for a Ball Python cant care for them that is the joke a down right shame and if they can start a business and deal in these "exotic" animals then they should know how to care for them

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And you know this how? Stop talking about your "RESCUE", we're talking about the OP and that snake. Do you know anything about the situation other than what someone with little experience has said? Stop trying to help. You could very sell cause more harm than good with that type of recommendations.

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so you would rather have the snake suffer and possibly die because the owner mistreated it? trust me you call the police or animal control they will tell you to call the ASPCA so there is no avoiding calling them

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How do you know the snake is suffering. It's in a small enclosure, so what. At least it's there and not released into the wild during these cold weather times. Yeah, that would be better, wouldn't it? Nowyour advocating calling the police? What's up with that? Are you insane. Stop with this, you are doing more harm than good.

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i might not know much but after reading even one care sheet its VERY obvious when they aren't being cared for properly ESPECIALLY a pet store owner who deals with them every day should know how to care for them so yes defiantly call the ASPCA
so think before you come in here and bash people for doing what IS right for the animal unless maybe you want to go to that store and rescue the animal and then go to EVERY store across the USA or the ENTIRE world and rescue every single one who is being mistreated...

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Okay, you do admit it, you don't know much, so stop trying to sound like you do. Your advice is dangerous in so many ways. The ASPCA is an organization that would have all pet ownership made illegal. Many in their organization don't know anything about snakes. Please do a search on this group. They are not your friend.

Do you know anything about real world situations? Go ahead call the ASPCA, have them intervene. That will teach the owner, he'll never take any another adoptin of another reptile. That's good. Now what do you want to do with the reptiles that are no longer being cared for by pet stores after they've been abandoned by their owners?

With people like you we don't need enemies. Think before you make comments on things you don't have a complete understanding about.

Jim Smith

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Originally Posted by Byrdie

Very much agreed upon as i stated in a previous post she should check the store Monday before contacting the ASPCA but as i also stated its a pet store that deals with these animals there is absolutely no reason that snake shouldn't be properly cared for and as for not having a hide big enough for an adult BP 5 minutes of someones time and a 12 pack soda box could fix that not permanent of course but it would suffice until either sold or a bigger hide was found but i still want to call shenanigans on that because it is a pet store even most Mom and Pop shops sell big enough hides

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Are you kidding me? This is all about the snake not having the proper sized hide? You want to call the ASPCA because this snake doesn't have a properly sized hide?

Pathetic,
Jim Smith

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Originally Posted by Byrdie

you are taking this out of context first of all a pet store who sells every supply you would need to care for a Ball Python cant care for them that is the joke a down right shame and if they can start a business and deal in these "exotic" animals then they should know how to care for them

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My point is, HOW do YOU know it's not being cared for properly? You're taking the word of someone who admits that they have limited knowledge. Have you seen the animal? Would you even know what to look for if you had?

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so you would rather have the snake suffer and possibly die because the owner mistreated it? trust me you call the police or animal control they will tell you to call the ASPCA so there is no avoiding calling them

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Who says it's going to die? You have NO clue how this snake is actually being kept, and yet you're saying that the pet store should be reported to an animal rights group.

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i might not know much but after reading even one care sheet its VERY obvious when they aren't being cared for properly ESPECIALLY a pet store owner who deals with them every day should know how to care for them so yes defiantly call the ASPCA
so think before you come in here and bash people for doing what IS right for the animal unless maybe you want to go to that store and rescue the animal and then go to EVERY store across the USA or the ENTIRE world and rescue every single one who is being mistreated...

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There are many care sheets out there that have bad information and there are many different ways to keep an animal so that it's healthy and well cared for. I've been keeping reptiles of various species for over 20 years, I've been keeping ball pythons in general for over 10, I've been involved in reptile rescue for over 10 years as well and I wouldn't ever recommend reporting someone to the ASPCA on the word of someone who admits that they don't know very much about them. That's just plain irresponsible.

I would strongly recommend that you spend several YEARS getting to know these animals and learning from them before attempting to give out advice.

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Ball pythons typically fairly shy and reclusive nocturnal animals and appreciate a good dark place to curl up and feel safe. It is best to provide two adequate hides in your BPs enclosure – one on the warm end and one on the cooler end so that it does not have to make a choice between regulating its body temperature and feeling secure (to their own detriment these snakes will sacrifice warmth in favor of a hide).

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Straight from the Caresheet

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Maintaining proper temperatures is essential to keeping your ball python healthy – failure to do so can lead to a host of issues from poor feeding to potentially lethal respiratory infections. For this reason you want to make sure you are able to measure the temperatures accurately. The sticker-type thermometers used in aquariums, and the little dials usually found in pet stores are routinely inaccurate and do little more than measure the temps of the glass to which they are adhered. Do yourself and your ball python a favor and invest in a digital thermometer. One of the most cost-effective and easily available is the Accu-Rite digital thermometer/hygrometer combo available at large stores such as Wal-Mart. These retail for less than $15 and include a probe making it possible to monitor the warm side and cool side temps as well as the humidity levels all simultaneously.

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again straight from the caresheet

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What can I do to help?
There are many ways you can help end the exotic pet trade:

* Do not buy exotic animals, including certain birds and reptiles, from dealers or pet shops.
* Refuse to patronize stores and websites that sell exotic pets.
* Educate family and friends about the animal welfare problems and safety concerns related to keeping exotic animals.
* Do not visit roadside zoos and menageries that breed or display animals for profit. Take a more active role in helping to end the exotic pet trade by working with the ASPCA to pass legislation that prohibits the sale or keeping of exotic animals. Stay up-to-date about current legislation to ban exotic pets by joining the ASPCA Advocacy Brigade.

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that is Straight from the ASPCA website this i knew i know that they openly fight Exotic pet trade but let me ask you who do you call to report animal Abuse? the Ghostbusters? i think not

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Are you kidding me? This is all about the snake not having the proper sized hide? You want to call the ASPCA because this snake doesn't have a properly sized hide?

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that's not it at all all i said was a snake who isn't properly cared for can and will die everyone knows stress can kill a snake it's mentioned a thousand times on this website and Ball Pythons are notorious hiders it's in their nature it makes them feel secure unstressed and happy giving a BP a small hide that it can't completely conceal itself in in a glass tank there is no question it's going to be stressed out and any "Newbie" can spot a bad Husbandry She even mentioned that she had received alot of help from this forum so taking her word that the snake was ill cared for after her going through the same problem isn't hard to grasp for anyone with half a brain

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I would strongly recommend that you spend several YEARS getting to know these animals and learning from them before attempting to give out advice.

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So your saying it takes several YEARS to spot bad husbandry? no i think not i might not be an "Expert" i doubt anyone here is but anyone on this site could spot "Deplorable conditions" and bad husbandry

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With people like you we don't need enemies. Think before you make comments on things you don't have a complete understanding about.

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So your saying because i care for the well being of a snake and wish it was better taken care of I'm a monster? an "enemy" to the Reptile world and your telling me to "think before commenting" maybe you should take some of your own advice

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Originally Posted by Byrdie

that's not it at all all i said was a snake who isn't properly cared for can and will die everyone knows stress can kill a snake it's mentioned a thousand times on this website and Ball Pythons are notorious hiders it's in their nature it makes them feel secure unstressed and happy giving a BP a small hide that it can't completely conceal itself in in a glass tank there is no question it's going to be stressed out and any "Newbie" can spot a bad Husbandry She even mentioned that she had received alot of help from this forum so taking her word that the snake was ill cared for after her going through the same problem isn't hard to grasp for anyone with half a brain

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Let me talk really slowly so you will understand. You do not know if the snake is being abused. You do not know. You may think you know, but you haven't seen the snake, the enclosure, nor talked to the owner of the pet store.
So how can you be so sure this animal needs to be rescued by the ASPCA?

You don't know.

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So your saying it takes several YEARS to spot bad husbandry? no i think not i might not be an "Expert" i doubt anyone here is but anyone on this site could spot "Deplorable conditions" and bad husbandry

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It does take some time AFTER you think you know it all, to actually know you don't. Particularly from several thousands miles away. Again, how do you know that the snake is being cared for in "Deplorable conditions"? You don't. so stop trying to paint a bad picture when you are clearly sitting in a dark room.

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So your saying because i care for the well being of a snake and wish it was better taken care of I'm a monster? an "enemy" to the Reptile world and your telling me to "think before commenting" maybe you should take some of your own advice

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No, but you are spewing bad mojo. Maybe if you had seen the condition of the snake or know of the pet store, we could take your recommendations more seriously. But since you seem to think you know what's best for an animal 2 thousand miles away and you know nothing about the situation other than by what a self described newbie described, we are not going to agree with you. Since you seem to know what's best, I'll leave you so you may better serve the reptile community.

But a little hint, by your own postings, you have shown many times that you are a newbie and do not completely understand.

Good Day!
Jim Smith

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Originally Posted by Superpop

honestly it was living in deplorable conditions!

It had no temp or humidity gauges and had a tiny shelter that there is no way it could fit itself in. I know BPs like tight secure hides but there is no way an adult BP could even curl up in the hide they had for it. The water dish was also tiny as hell.

We are new-ish owners to our BP and have had issues with maintaining a proper home for our snake but due to the help from some of the members on here I feel we have a good habitat for our snake.

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Originally Posted by j_h_smith

Let me talk really slowly so you will understand. You do not know if the snake is being abused. You do not know. You may think you know, but you haven't seen the snake, the enclosure, nor talked to the owner of the pet store.
So how can you be so sure this animal needs to be rescued by the ASPCA?

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So they went Through the same husbandry issues mentioned in her first post small water dish small hide though i don't know the other conditions when someone says

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it was living in deplorable conditions!

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and then came on a forum that talked about BP's and asked if someone would rescue it it must have been pretty damn bad

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It does take some time AFTER you think you know it all, to actually know you don't. Particularly from several thousands miles away. Again, how do you know that the snake is being cared for in "Deplorable conditions"? You don't. so stop trying to paint a bad picture when you are clearly sitting in a dark room.

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I never said i "know it all" but I'm also not an idiot that knows nothing either and "Deplorable conditions" was not from me that was straight from the OP so again READ BEFORE YOU BASH!

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No, but you are spewing bad mojo. Maybe if you had seen the condition of the snake or know of the pet store, we could take your recommendations more seriously. But since you seem to think you know what's best for an animal 2 thousand miles away and you know nothing about the situation other than by what a self described newbie described, we are not going to agree with you. Since you seem to know what's best, I'll leave you so you may better serve the reptile community.

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Well I sure am glad you will leave me be because someone arguing that I'm a no nothing uneducated idiot just because I'm new really hurts my feelings :( especially if that someone is over the internet :tears: AND THEY WON'T AGREE WITH ME!? :depressed:

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But a little hint, by your own postings, you have shown many times that you are a newbie and do not completely understand.

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:O but but but.... I KNOW EVERYTHING!! since i say that whenever i post right? cause its soooo true ;) :gj:

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Good Day!
Jim Smith

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I WILL :D and to you too Mr. Jim Smith :gj:

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Originally Posted by Superpop

This week my boyfriend and I went and purchased some hoppers for our BP at a petland store. We discovered an adult BP there(which was not there 2 weeks earlier) going through a bad shed and honestly it was living in deplorable conditions!

It had no temp or humidity gauges and had a tiny shelter that there is no way it could fit itself in. I know BPs like tight secure hides but there is no way an adult BP could even curl up in the hide they had for it. The water dish was also tiny as hell.

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These are not deplorable conditions.

Jim Smith

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Originally Posted by j_h_smith

These are not deplorable conditions.

Jim Smith

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those are just what she described what if it was FAR worse and she didn't say? guess we will have to wait until she replies to this thread to know the full facts

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Originally Posted by Byrdie

those are just what she described what if it was FAR worse and she didn't say? guess we will have to wait until she replies to this thread to know the full facts

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Should have, would have, could have...what ifs too...probably not the best way to try to give advice.

Look, it's your story, and I'm just a character. You just need to be careful giving such extreme advice concerning something when really don't have the true facts.

Jim Smith

I had the same problem at my Petland. They ordered in two '10 BP's and obviously have no idea how to care for them. They are in the same enclosure, which is hardly big enough for a tarantula, no places to hide, no warm side/cool side, and often their water dish is bone dry.

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Originally Posted by Superpop

I will contact the ASPCA over it because I was frankly disgusted by it's living conditions!

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all i gave was advice towards a direction something i would have done i also mention complaining to the owner telling them that snakes Husbandry should be changed as i said I AM NO EXPERT why you continue to argue over the internet with someone thousands of miles away is a mystery to me but let me just say one last thing before i leave

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Arguing with someone over the internet is like the special olympics...even if you win your still Retarded

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so Good day to you Mr. Jim Smith

It sounds like the staff at the store were not properly educated on how to care for a ball python. Why not take the time to share your knowledge with them and help them and the snake at the same time. Then, when they talk to customers, they can pass on helpful information on how to care for ball pythons. Let's share and promote this hobby.

reason #1 not to call the ASPCA, and rather just talk to the store manager yourself. -the ASPCA backed hr 669- this should not have been an issue that required a privately owned company's interference. especially not someone the likes the ASPCA or PETA.

my 2 cents.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. Xan Powers!

One I’d like to remind the OP that third party advertising even if you have good intention is not allowed on this forum therefore I have removed the address of the store. (mod speech over)

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Now as far as condition very little is known here, the animal is likely surrender, It happens when owners can no longer or no longer want to take care of their reptiles and surrender them to a pet store that will in turn either adopt or sell them.

As far as condition BP do go through bad shed even when kept in optimal conditions, anyone that has never experience a bad shed probably has not kept snakes long enough to start with.

As far as jumping to making a report to the ASPCA, are you serious? If one is suspecting animal neglect which again has not been established here the first thing to do is to talk to the person in charge of that department and offer tips on how to make the husbandry better (should it be necessary or needed), if that does not work the next step would be talking to the store manager.

Sometimes what appears as neglect is not as much as neglect than it is lack of information and the best recourse in that case is to offer help rather than jumping the gun.

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Originally Posted by Byrdie

Straight from the Caresheet

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Caresheets are mainly guidelines to help new owners provide optimal environment while they are learning about their new animal, does not mean everyone keeps their animal that way? No big difference in what I recommend for new owners and what I do (It's about experience and knowing your own animal), heck if you saw how I kept mine you might report me to ASPCA :rolleyes:, no hides in most of the enclosures (use to offer them but they are mainly useless with most of my animals), water dishes are way too small for any snake to soak in, oh and during the winter I do experience bad shed :O

Bottom line jumping and making accusation of neglect and wanting to have aspca involved is too premature and not something I would suggest without knowing more about the situation.

Wow, you all...

Lets remember one thing first of all. We are all here for the LOVE of our Ball Python. This is our passion, hobby and for some even an income.

That said, everyone has SOME points. If we could cool our heels, we could see that.

I do believe the OP jumped the gun. It might have been good intentions, but even then its a good idea to educate her to see the big picture. A pet store rarely keeps animals in the way a good care sheet recommends them to do. That goes for any animal they keep. They are supposed to be there for a short time only.

Now, they should also not keep them in "deplorable" conditions, obviously !!!

An enclosure being to small to be optimal, is not deplorable. Unless the animal is a dog that can't turn around in its cage. A snake prefers a smaller enclosure. A hide being to small (or big) is not optimal, but def. not a reason to call the police !! A small water dish ??? I ONLY have small water dishes, I don't believe (and thats imho) that a BP needs to be able to "soak" itself. I have small dishes with CLEAN and FRESH water, though. Never had a bad shed, yet...

A bad shed or the snake being an adult is still not a reason to call anyone on them. It could be that someone got tired of their snake and dropped it off in that condition (and enclosure) at the petshop, happens all the time. Bad quarantine ? Again, thats almost every pet shop there is. I don't like pet shops selling live animals, but that is a fight that needs to be approached from different levels.

I wouldn't call anyone just yet. How about approaching the Pet Store associates or owner and asking them what the deal is ?? How about telling them they might want to add a bigger hide ? Not having those dial thermometers doesn't mean there is no heat. There might and might not. Thats why someone can ASK.

I do understand many people getting angry at seeing snakes in bad surroundings or bad conditions. Who wouldn't get upset. I understand at feeling the need to do something about it. Its actually commendable !!!

However, its also important to do the RIGHT thing, and not make things worse for our hobby, unintentionally. So education is the key.

So perhaps a deep breath and lets start over.

That said, I did rescue an adult BP from a pet store once. It was a HUGE adult female, stuck in a 10 gallon. That female weighed 4500 gr !!!! There was no heat, no hide (snake barely fit in the tank) and a tiny dish without any water. I knew the owner, and I knew talking to him or calling anyone on him really never did any good. I bought the snake for $50, knowing she had the beginnings of a RI. It took a while to turn her around, she whistled, bubbled and made the strangest noises, poor thing. But she did recuperate and dropped a surprise clutch later on !! 6 HUGE eggs, 5 HUGE and pretty hatchlings :) (between 89 and 112 gr. each)

Lets remember what we're here for and that education is the key...

Wow this thread is sure volatile!

While I can sympathize with the OP wanting that snake in better conditions, jumping the gun like that and flying off the handle about calling the ASPCA is just silly.

First of all, if the snake showed up within the past two weeks, who is to say it wasn't just dropped off in that condition?

Secondly, you always catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Why not ASK where the snake came from and what condition it arrived in ? Ask if they have experience in dealing with this kind of thing. Maybe they don't have a clue how to help it with a bad shed. Offer to bring in a printed caresheet with some tips if they would like. Make a good impression and maybe you'll do some good. Go off half-cocked and nobody wins. Even a simple, " Boy that hide looks kind of small for him, don't you think?" Is better than reporting them. Now, if the snake remains at that store and in that condition for 6 months or so, then yes it's time to step in, but not now.

What do you think the ASPCA, who tried to pass the Python Ban, will do if they take the snake? I'm betting it will get put down, and that's if it's lucky. How is that helping anything?

I understand being upset, but going off that way is not going to benefit the snake or the store.

Gale

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Superpop

1. Why would a pet store be selling an ADULT Ball Python?(seems stange to me)

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Because pet stores stock animals that are in demand.

What is the big deal over a store having an ADULT ball python? Not everyone wants a hatchling. It wasn't there TWO WEEKS BEFORE??? So what? Stores get in stock all the time. Would this be some huge deal if a new hatchling shows up too? Stores get stock in to sell so they can get more stock in.. it's a cycle.

The fact that the hide looked too small could mean the hide was too small or that the OP isn't as familiar with how squished a ball python can be inside its favorite hide. *WE* don't know because we aren't there. Not seeing a thermometer or heat means absolutely nothing, as the sensors and heat might not be easily visible. UTH are not visible in most cases since they are UNDER THE TANK. Sensors can be placed under the substrate out of sight. Again.. *WE* don't know.

A bad shed is not reason to call the authorities. If so, almost every snake owner would lose their pets, as sooner or later most snakes will experiance a poor shed. Also, the snake could easily have just been dropped off with bad shed on it, or it could be leftover from poor husbandry from wherever the store got it. Even kept in perfect conditions for a few days doesn't ensure that a perfect shed will result if the shedding cycle was already begun.

Calling the ASPCA when the snake was in a proper enclosure(even if small) by itself(not with a pile of others) with a water dish(even if small) and a hide(even if small) is a ridiculous overreaction and will (hopefully) result in only the ASPCA officer thinking the OP is foolish.

Saying that it's warrented because the circumstances COULD be way worse than we have been told would mean that I should call the ASPCA on anyone on the thread just because THEIR circumstances could be way worse than they've told us. There is that 'innocent until proven guilty' that we all enjoy in life. Assuming that because it's a pet store and you saw a bad pet store once doesn't mean that this particular pet store is a bad one. By that reasoning, I should call the authorites on everyone owning a snake since I've seen a really bad owner with a snake once, so all people who own snakes must neglect and abuse them.

EDUCATION is always the preferred method of changing circumstances. The ASPCA is not going to walk in and snatch up a python and carry it away to a land of rainbows and prekilled rats. Educating the pet store IF THEY NEED IT would result in better conditions for all the reptiles they have AND all the reptiles they would acquire in the future. Talking calmly and professionally with people can actually result in an exchange of knowledge.

I'm somewhat confused by the OP's response. First, she was infuriated and was going to call the ASPCA. Then, someone sorta reasoned with her and made her realize perhaps talking to the manager/owner was best before taking any other action. Then, she was all riled up again and was on the ASPCA wagon. As hard as it is, I think she needs to take a step back, and seperate logic from emotion. Yes, anyone would FEEL bad for the snake if it's not in the "best" living conditions. But, like others have said, would it be best to immediately call authorities instead of using REASON to try and talk to these people?

Does this store regularly keep snakes, even as hatchlings? If not, maybe they aren't aware of how to house them. Like others have said, if you simply talk to them, you may teach them something. It may simply be they don't KNOW not that they don't CARE. There's a big difference.

Also, how do you know the snake wasn't dropped off in those EXACT conditions hours before you got there? If the employees have a store full of customers and other duties to take care of, do you think they can stop right that minute and give the snake the best enclosure possible? Especially if they aren't used to housing them as adults? So what if they have shelves of supplies and tanks. It doesn't mean they can take one right off the shelf and use it.

I will be the first to admit that I know very, very little about snakes. I am extremely new to this hobby. However, new or not, most of this seems like common sense stuff.

Just me 2 cents.

While I agree that they, being a large chain petstore that SELLS the supplies that a ball python would need, should do better by the snake if its living conditions are in fact deplorable, I feel that this is rather hasty. Check back there and see if they have fixed the situation. You may have caught them on the day that they rescued it. If the poor thing is still dealing with dismal conditions, assume that they are ignorant and try polietly telling them what the snake needs (because they could very well not know, since most pets stores typically sell the babies). If that doesn't work, then threatening to, and eventually taking action, seems like an appropriate measure. I am also wondering why the original post seems to put a lot of emphasis on the fact that it is an adult. Do adult ball pythons not deserve to find good homes? Should pet stores exclusively sell babies?

Here is a pic of my Blast Boy, to kind of lighten up the mood.

Now, if you saw that picture without any kind of explanation, you could turn me in as well...

That hide is definitely getting to small for Blast boy ! However, he LOVES it !! He has a bigger hide further back into the tub, and I've switched locations of the hide and he would ALWAYS go back to his mini hide or cruise until I put it back into the tub.

The hide is extremely lightweight, it does not cut into him in any way. He just decided to live as a tortoise, and carries his house around with him, LOL. He will take it different places in his tub. Sometimes its only his upper third body underneath of it, but thats ok with him ;)

His waterdish is small as well, but as I explained, I do not use large water dishes, my BP's do not soak in them, I have yet to have a bad shed in those tubs. I simply raise the humidity when its time for them to shed.

There is also no thermometer in the tubs. There is flexwatt underneath each tub, controlled by a Helix and checked periodically with a temp gun.

So, without knowing any of this info, how would that pic look to someone ?

Personally, I think he is one funny dude ;) Btw. he eats his F/T rats like a champ and never seems to get enough :)

http://photos.imageevent.com/morgens...e/SAM_0389.JPG

Wow!!!!

Thanks for all the volatility. I seem to have a knack for creating it on here without really doing anything to warrant it. I was just trying TO HELP this snake that isn't even mine out! Thanks to the people being mean when I am just trying to figure out what the right thing to do is.

I haven't contacted anyone about this snake...YET. I am going to check on it again this week when we go shopping in the area.

btw...to all the people calling me a "her"....I am a "him".

Thank you to all the people who gave advice in this thread without being rude.

I think I called you a "her", sorry about that ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MarkS

Are you kidding me? Is this a joke? Someone who admits that they have very little experience with this species is threatening the reputation and livelihood of a business owner because he took in an unwanted animal?

And so you want to report them to privately run organizations who are actively trying to end the herp keeping hobby?

I think you need to step back and take another look at what you are doing. There are far too many people in this world today who think they have the right to tell others what to do despite having little knowledge themselves.

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Tell you what....

We both live in St. Paul. The pet store in question is in St. Paul. I'm sure you have much more knowledge on BPs than I do. You want me to send you the address of the store in question so you can go check up on the snake?

btw...according to both google reviews the store has....they get their dogs from puppy mills. Obviously this store's reputation isn't very good.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zina10

Now, if you saw that picture without any kind of explanation, you could turn me in as well...

The hide is extremely lightweight, it does not cut into him in any way. He just decided to live as a tortoise, and carries his house around with him, LOL. He will take it different places in his tub. Sometimes its only his upper third body underneath of it, but thats ok with him ;)

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+1 for the BP's that prefer wearing hats instead of larger hides...

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...attila0312.jpg

I've also got some pics of a large male BP that I used to have that preferred a smaller hide. I will never figure out how he managed to get himself in and out of it. The hide was 13" X 9" and the snake was 4'-7"...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vypyrz

+1 for the BP's that prefer wearing hats instead of larger hides...

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...attila0312.jpg

I've also got some pics of a large male BP that I used to have that preferred a smaller hide. I will never figure out how he managed to get himself in and out of it. The hide was 13" X 9" and the snake was 4'-7"...

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LOL, we should make this a "welcome to the club" of...

That is to cute, glad mine isn't the only one with strange quirks :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zina10

http://photos.imageevent.com/morgens...e/SAM_0389.JPG

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vypyrz

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...attila0312.jpg

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Now if you bred those two together..............Would the babies hide in hermit shells?????:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

BTW:hijackd::hijackd::hijackd::hijackd::hijackd::hijackd::hijackd:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Superpop

Wow!!!!

Thanks for all the volatility. I seem to have a knack for creating it on here without really doing anything to warrant it. I was just trying TO HELP this snake that isn't even mine out! Thanks to the people being mean when I am just trying to figure out what the right thing to do is.

I haven't contacted anyone about this snake...YET. I am going to check on it again this week when we go shopping in the area.

btw...to all the people calling me a "her"....I am a "him".

Thank you to all the people who gave advice in this thread without being rude.

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I don't believe anyone was critical of you per se. We made notice that what you descibed as bad, really wasn't that bad. At least by your description, it doesn't appear to be that bad.

However, the advice you were given by one of the members, was far too harsh and unneccessary. The ASPCA is probably one of the most hated animal organizations her and by most reptile keeprs.

Jim Smith

Quote:

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Originally Posted by j_h_smith

The ASPCA is probably one of the most hated animal organizations her and by most reptile keeprs.

Jim Smith

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couldn't agree more.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. Xan Powers!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by j_h_smith

The ASPCA is probably one of the most hated animal organizations her and by most reptile keeprs.

Jim Smith

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Yeah with a 5 minute visit to their website, I was too angry to continue reading the close-minded and one sided article about why it's bad in all ways to keep exotic pets...

Long thread made short....dont put the cart before the horse. Talk to the store and find out what the dealio is and then maybe help them with their set up as they may not know so much!

PS......some of my BPs have no hides. They are getting so big if I put hides in their bins....they would have NO room.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by PitOnTheProwl

Now if you bred those two together..............Would the babies hide in hermit shells?????:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

BTW:hijackd::hijackd::hijackd::hijackd::hijackd::hijackd::hijackd:

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OMG, that is to funny, LMAO !!!!
:bow:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Superpop

Tell you what....

We both live in St. Paul. The pet store in question is in St. Paul. I'm sure you have much more knowledge on BPs than I do. You want me to send you the address of the store in question so you can go check up on the snake?

btw...according to both google reviews the store has....they get their dogs from puppy mills. Obviously this store's reputation isn't very good.

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PM's have been exchanged. It's a bit of a trip from my house but I'll try to check on it next week if I get the time.

Aspca is good for dogs and cats not for Reptiles. Petlands Does get there Dogs from puppy milles I know someone who use to work there. Well the one here in Baton Rouge does I have only gone there a few times but stop going there. We dont have mom and pop pet stores anymore most closed down. The petlands here will sell you sick animals the owner just dont care about them as long as he making $$$$. it is a sham that peolpe buy there dogs there. I hope yours Pet Land is not like mine. :2cent: :sabduel:

I don't suppose any of you geniuses who have posted have ever OWNED a pet store? I don't suppose you understand that to sell a snake it has to be SEEN. I suppose that you don't understand that to be seen it must be in the OPEN. I further am not supposing that many of you have given any thought to just how many snakes go through that tank in the course of a year. I don't suppose much thought has gone into the fact that those snake will vary in size, but that the room available to house them is FIXED. The cage won't change size because a larger snake is in it.

And who the bloody hell has EVER heard of a petstore that quarantines? Not possible for most.

The OP may have had good intentions. Those and a bucket of cowpoop will please your roses. Not good for much else.

I've heard that walking is something good to have perfected PRIOR to running. May want to work on that walking thing, a bunch of you.

Is this google thing you refer to reliable or can anyone post anything because if it's the latter, we're right back to happy roses.