Old School Incubating

Anybody in here let the mother stay with the eggs until they're hatched? Seems like for a first time breeder that would be the way to go, right?

I don't think there's really anything wrong with that as long as you understand that the mother can accidentally flip the eggs.

is that a common thing? could it be resolved by marking the tops of the eggs and doing periodic checks?

Check out this thread.... :D

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...light=maternal

when the mother only has roughly 1 foot by 3 feet to find the best spot to lay her eggs, it's up to you to have the conditions right for her to do her job. to me this would be a lot harder than making an incubator which makes controlling the conditions much easier.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by snakecharmer3638

Check out this thread.... :D

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...light=maternal

---

Maternal incubation?...screw that. I figured "mother knows best". Apparently, when I am ready to breed, there is going to be a DIY incubator project too.

there was a thread on here that kept use updated on a maternal incubation the whole way through. it was normal x normal by accident if I remember right and they didn't want to spend the money on a incubator. alot of people on this site helped and guided the whole way and all babies hatched on there own.

Would I do that with a $10,000+ clutch........ no..... lol

I did a het albino x het albino clutch that way, momma hatched all 6 just fine; got two pretty albinos. It really depends on the snake and conditions though, some mother's won't necessarily care to do that for you and leave the eggs to die. It's best to have a back up incubator.

Quite several of us here do maternal incubation. The first requirement is a healthy mother. The effort in maintaining proper temps and humidity is pretty much the same effort as maintaining temps and humidity in an incubator. Maternal incubation is a little more forgiving because the mother maintains the proper temps and humidity - you're just there to help.

There are pros and cons to both methods. Just like there's pros and cons to the rack vs. tank and live versus f/t methods. One is not necessarily better than the other - they're just different.

Do a search on "maternal incubation" and you should find all the people that are doing it here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chris Knowles

is that a common thing? could it be resolved by marking the tops of the eggs and doing periodic checks?

---

Yeah but even if you do that it won't matter... if you go in and see one has been flipped, it's still flipped and the egg has probably had it at that point.

we had an awesome convo on the natural v incubator method thread. anatess is the go to for natural incubation! :O

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LOSTCOAST_BALLZ

we had an awesome convo on the natural v incubator method thread. anatess is the go to for natural incubation! :O

---

Not me... I learned most of what I know from Quiet Tempest. She's the reason I went with maternal incubation. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TrpnBils

Yeah but even if you do that it won't matter... if you go in and see one has been flipped, it's still flipped and the egg has probably had it at that point.

---

I looked and looked but I couldn't find it anymore. Somebody did an experiment on the "flipping eggs" theory. I thought it was a thread on bp.net but I can't find it in the search.

If I remember correctly, there was no conclusive evidence that flipping an egg harms the baby.

But, just by logical thinking, I think if the egg rolls over when the snake is already big enough in the egg could cause the umbilical cord to get wrapped around the snake.

My observation with maternal incubation is that the eggs are "stuck" together so that it is not an easy task to get them flipped.

IMO if you have an ambience temp at a constant 88 and humidity of around 90%, I don't see why you shouldn't let the nature takes its course.

I let my only female breeding do it herself (mostly) last year. I started with five good eggs. She rolled two out after a day or so and I marked them and put them back. She pushed them out again within a day and they soon went bad. About three weeks later I (she) was down to two eggs. Both hatched but one had to be put down it was kinked bad. I'm planning on having an incubator setup this year.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LotsaBalls

I let my only female breeding do it herself (mostly) last year. I started with five good eggs. She rolled two out after a day or so and I marked them and put them back. She pushed them out again within a day and they soon went bad. About three weeks later I (she) was down to two eggs. Both hatched but one had to be put down it was kinked bad. I'm planning on having an incubator setup this year.

---

It is possible that those 2 eggs were bad that's why mama snake rolled them out. Bad eggs will go bad even in the incubator. Kinked snakes, snakes wrapped in its umbilical cord, snake with 2 heads, snake with its heart on the outside... all these things happen in the incubator.

But yeah, the good thing about using the incubator is you get to control the entire thing yourself so that if an egg goes bad there's no question about it.

And yes, that's the bad thing about maternal incubation too. The mama snake has control, we're just the sidekick, so that if an egg goes bad, we are always left to wonder if mama snake is to blame.

Maybe I'm just confused, but with maternal incubation, wouldn't raising the humidity to 90% put the mother at risk for RI? From what I have read and heard, an environment that is too moist can cause RI. Am I wrong about that?

Hi,

This is the thread about eggs getting turned around during incubation.


dr del

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by anatess

I looked and looked but I couldn't find it anymore. Somebody did an experiment on the "flipping eggs" theory. I thought it was a thread on bp.net but I can't find it in the search.

If I remember correctly, there was no conclusive evidence that flipping an egg harms the baby.

But, just by logical thinking, I think if the egg rolls over when the snake is already big enough in the egg could cause the umbilical cord to get wrapped around the snake.

My observation with maternal incubation is that the eggs are "stuck" together so that it is not an easy task to get them flipped.

---

Yeah I've heard both ways but prefer to err on the side of caution I guess. I think the first time I actually saw eggs being flipped was on a RDR video (not 100% sure though) where the breeder was turning them all over the place as he took them out from the female. Whoever it was didn't seem at all concerned with it, but it seems like maybe the time in incubation might affect it.

For example, when the female is laying the eggs, obviously they're getting rolled around and it has no effect on them. I'm wondering if once everything settles and the embryo grows it becomes more of a problem for it to move. This is just a guess on my part, not scientific data.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TrpnBils

Yeah but even if you do that it won't matter... if you go in and see one has been flipped, it's still flipped and the egg has probably had it at that point.

---

I maternally incubate and the eggs usually fuse together shortly after being laid so that they stay in place. It doesn't always happen that way, though. Last year one of my females laid eggs that were snowflaked and didn't adhere to one another. Not once but TWICE I had an egg roll out of the pile when the mom would move to get a drink or eat. I was worried to death about that egg and frequently candled it to see the baby move inside. As it turned out, it was perfectly fine and hatched alongside its siblings without any trouble.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chris Knowles

Maybe I'm just confused, but with maternal incubation, wouldn't raising the humidity to 90% put the mother at risk for RI? From what I have read and heard, an environment that is too moist can cause RI. Am I wrong about that?

---

You don't want to raise humidity that high when maternally incubating. The mother snake controls the humidity inside the coils so you want to give her room to go up or down with it. I maintained my humidity while maternally incubating at 70-80 which is the humidity I have it set normally when the snake is shedding.

But, as far as RI... my understanding is, your risk RI in cold and wet conditions - conditions where bacteria thrive best. Therefore, keeping the enclosure dry with the air humid (no precipitation on the enclosure or wet substrate) making sure your ambient temp is above 75F (preferably 80F) you're good.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by anatess

You don't want to raise humidity that high when maternally incubating. The mother snake controls the humidity inside the coils so you want to give her room to go up or down with it. I maintained my humidity while maternally incubating at 70-80 which is the humidity I have it set normally when the snake is shedding.

But, as far as RI... my understanding is, your risk RI in cold and wet conditions - conditions where bacteria thrive best. Therefore, keeping the enclosure dry with the air humid (no precipitation on the enclosure or wet substrate) making sure your ambient temp is above 75F (preferably 80F) you're good.

---

I don't alter the humidity in my tubs. It ranges 60-80% depending on whether or not someone has tipped a bowl. Trying to turn your snake's whole enclosure into an incubator is the wrong way to go about maternal incubation. You keep things basically the same as you would for any other ball.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Quiet Tempest

I don't alter the humidity in my tubs. It ranges 60-80% depending on whether or not someone has tipped a bowl. Trying to turn your snake's whole enclosure into an incubator is the wrong way to go about maternal incubation. You keep things basically the same as you would for any other ball.

---

So if you have spot on husbandry maternal incubation isn't a problem?. I am thinking of trying maternal incubation this year

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ed4281

So if you have spot on husbandry maternal incubation isn't a problem?. I am thinking of trying maternal incubation this year

---

I would say yeah but it's always good to have a Plan B set up just in case. Even if your enclosure is ideal, you may have a female that doesn't want to brood her clutch.

I've been considering maternal incubation, and my two main worries are 1.) insufficient humidity 2.) mom flipping her water bowl and winding up soaking her eggs because there's water on the bottom of the tub.

If I could get mom to lay the eggs ON the vermiculite, that'd really be best. Now how do I sweet talk her into THAT? *sigh*

My first year I had my female in a 40g breeder tank with a screen lid and even though I had clingwrap over most of the lid, I wasn't comfortable with the thought of her laying in the tank. I ended up making a lay box/humid hide for her out of a 30qt tub with a hole cut into the lid. I gave her the hide about three weeks or so before I expected her to lay and she spent almost all of her time in there. When she finally did lay, she was in there 24/7 only stretching out to drink occasionally.

I haven't had a problem with any of my females knocking over water bowls while brooding. Not to say that it couldn't happen but I think they're usually absorbed in what they're doing and aren't as likely to be prowling around and cause the bowl to flip.


If you decide to give maternal incubation a try, good luck and take lots of pictures. :)

I'm beginning to feel a bit more comfortable with maternal incubation...