If money is an issue.

If money is an issue and you don't have hundreds of dollars to invest into multiple snakes or one really high end snake. What is the best route to go? Will breeders work out payment plans? Are expos the better way to go, find what you want at lower prices? I've never been to an expo, repticon is gonna be here in a few months. I wold really like to go, just get depressed when I get there and can't afford anything for sale. Help, I would really like to start getting into Morphs, just don't know financially the best way to do it.

In the same boat here!!!;)
Credit Card debt and a new car for the wife so funding is VERY limited right now.
There were a couple of good deals at the show we went to in november here in SATX.
Good luck on your hunt.
What morph are you looking for?
I do know some of the breeders will work out payment plans too.

Well I believe that Ball Pythons are high in the market these days.

this is a touchy subject a lot of people might not want to comment about. some namely because they would have nothing nice to contribute. i've noticed that a lot of people take a stand and say if you don't have enough to buy it then you can't afford to keep it ( healthy ).
i tend to believe that you can work your way up to the snake you want, and have fun doing it too.
start with a male (1.0), single gene morph and a female (0.1), single gene morph.
a 1.1 pair that:
a) is in your price range
b) you would not mind getting stuck with if you find out the hard way that your terrible a selling.
c) makes a double gene animal that you like
d) makes a double gene animal that is easy to market. ie. double co-dom or dom/co-dom mix.

start by purchasing the female and raise her for three years. make her the lower costing morph out of the two since she will take longer to raise.
during that time start saving for a male. near the end of your second year buy yourself a male and start raising him.
fast forward to your first breeding:
after your eggs hatch hopefully luck will be on your side.
keep yourself a double gene female and sell the rest to recoup some of your money invested.
raise that female till breeding size as well. also the following year you can breed the original pair back together provided she has gained her size back.
use those profits to reinvest into your breeding plans. that is the key.
ALWAYS REMEMBER: whatever you breed , make sure its something you would be happy to get stuck with. not everything always sells as fast or for as much as you would like.
john

I agree with John that's how I started.

I picked up a male breedable yellow belly and a couple of 1500+ gram normal females.

I got 4 female yellow belly's our of 6 eggs and sold one and have 3 still and those 3 are just now hitting breeding size.

I couldn't at the time afford to purchase more expensive snakes so I found one I liked a lot(Ivories) and started with the base morph and this year I'm finally getting to try making my own Ivory :)

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Originally Posted by bads15

.... i've noticed that a lot of people take a stand and say if you don't have enough to buy it then you can't afford to keep it ( healthy ). ...

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I don't think there would have been anything "touchy" about the subject at all, but for this statement. I don't have "an issue" with this statement, I just feel a need to clarify something. There's a BIG difference in looking for ways to afford or budget for an expensive morph and looking for "free" snakes because you can't afford to buy a $30 normal. I can't afford a $500 morph right now either...but I've got NO problem caring for the snakes I have, and would have no problem caring for an expensive morph if I should somehow acquire one. Not being able to afford $$$ morph doesn't equate to being unable to care for them. It's the people who come on here with no job, no income, and no prospects they're willing to pursue...who complain about never having any money and always looking for freebies...who are told (RIGHTLY SO) that if they can't afford the cost of buying a snake and the basic equipment you need to care for it...then maybe owning them isn't such a good idea at this time.

As for the rest of your post...absolutely spot on. :gj:

Better deals can often be found at shows...but depending on your specific finances and what you want, even those deals can seem out of reach. Many breeders are willing to work out payment plans, you just have to call them and talk to them and see. :)

Save up your money and then go looking for a snake you like. Some breeders do work out a payment plan for snakes and some won't. I know we all go to shows or find that one snake we can't live without online. The only thing you can do is ask about it. The worst thing you can be told is "no". I have plenty of snakes and now just search for certain things that I need for breeding. I started out with a male Pastel and a normal female. I would say a good combo to start with would be a Pastel and a Cinnamon. Lot's of potential with those 2 snakes alone. They are also not too bad as far as prices go. There is nothing wrong with starting out with a pastel and a normal either. I would just say don't get out of your price range. You have to be able to give your snakes the food and care that they need first and foremost.

Please note, my post is strictly with the understanding that if funds are an issue, you're probably hoping to make money in the long run, or at least break even.

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If you don't have hundreds of dollars

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The fact is that breeding reptiles WILL cost hundreds of dollars.

A good thermostat runs $100. You'll need at least two if you want to have both a pair of snakes (required to get a clutch of eggs, for obvious reasons) and an incubator. Already you're looking at "hundreds", before even buying housing or your animals.

In addition, the less money you spend on animals, the more likely you will run a deficit rather than a profit in breeding. Imagine feeding a pair of animals on average of 40 times a year. At ~$1.50 a feeder, that's a feeding bill of $120 annually. In addition, the extra energy costs for your heating elements can be surprisingly expensive. I'm spending about $20 a month on heating all my reptiles. All of these costs are the same per animal, regardless of whether it's a normal or a $20,000 morph. If you're breeding morphs that run $500 each, the relative impact of maintenance costs is diminished.

Financially, the best way to get into morphs for someone who is lacking funds is to pick up a weekend job. Find the most expensive restaurant that will hire you and work hard to get good tips. If you're doing alright financially without a weekend job, then it will easily add to your discretionary funding.

On payment plans:

Payment plans are only for people who aren't capable of deciding to save up ahead of time, and are prone to impulse-purchases. Impulse purchases are a gateway to spending more than earning in herpetoculture.

Financially, the best route to go is to save up money long term and spend that time planning your ideas and goals for breeding. Don't jump the gun, but wait until the right moment occurs when you find a SPECTACULAR individual animal, have your breeding plans formed, AND have saved up all the cash you need to make the purchase.

Shows can be a good place to wheel and deal for that morph you're looking for, Also many breeders will work out payment plans with you. Some are more flexible than other's and some just don't offer them at all..

I'd say figure out what you're wanting to buy morph wise, and then look at a good average price range for them. Then start emailing and calling breeders, you'd be surprised how many people will work with you. It's just going to depend on the breeder and how flexible you're asking them to be. Asking for shipping included on a 150.00 purchase might be pushing it but asking for shipping on a 550.00 buy might not..

On saving up money for snakes:

Having a "snake fund" that is physically separate from all your other money is a good idea.. be it a sock drawer or separate savings/checking account. This will let you better track expenses and income with regards to this hobby.

For me, I use a savings account and a separate wallet. This keeps my reptile cash separate, and makes sure I don't dip into money that I need to spend on food/rent/whatever.

I also put all my change into a giant glass boot. When it's full, I deposit it into my snake savings account. Over time this approach has allowed me to minimize other spending, maximize saving, and acquire a couple animals I wouldn't otherwise have purchased.

I don't consider "Breeding" for a morph a viable option when you can't afford the base morphs. By the time you've gone through all of the effort to make a bumble bee (buying a Pastel or Spider Female, Growing them up, breeding them, etc) you could have purchased a bumblebee.

Simply save up money. If you have no issues caring for the animals then mow lawns, do some weekend jobs from Craigslist, save up birthday/X-mas money, sell some things you don't need anymore on ebay.

Like mainbutter said, breeding is not as inexpensive as some people may have you believe. It's only when you're looking to profit off of the animals (or at least break even on keeping them) that that should be considered.

I think people toss around the idea of breeding too lightly. If you can't afford purchasing the morph you want then you won't be able to afford to purchase two animals, grow them up, breed them, and take care of and house their offspring.

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Originally Posted by AaronP

I think people toss around the idea of breeding too lightly. If you can't afford purchasing the morph you want then you won't be able to afford to purchase two animals, grow them up, breed them, and take care of and house their offspring.

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I don't believe there is an absolute correlation between being able to afford a $1000 morph and being able to work toward acquiring, raising and breeding two $300 morphs. The individual morphs can be purchased separately (ie: buy the girl first and raise her for a year or two before buying the boy)...expensive bits of the equipment can also be planned for and bought over time. You don't have to shell out for an expensive incubator the same day you buy a baby female spider, for instance. The whole breeding process evolves over time (if done correctly and with foresight and planning) and does not necessarily require an immediate layout of hundreds and hundreds of dollars.

NOW....I do agree that we see WAY too many people get in way over their heads buying up all the snakes they can afford in an attempt to breed as much as they can as fast as they can without ever taking into consideration all the other overhead costs beyond what the snake itself was priced at.

But asking for advice on how best to plan for a way to afford those beautiful expensive morphs is not the same, I don't think...and does not imply an inability to care for the snakes in question.

A lot of breeders also are not going to do payment plans unless your snake is at least 1k. Another thing is this is not an investment that you are going to see quick returns, it is going to take multiple years and a lot more money. These are all just positive things, what if your big investment god forbid gets sick and dies then you bought something you couldn't afford and now you have nothing to show for it. If it were me I would just save up until you can buy whatever you want comfortably that way, who knows they might even come down in price by the time you get the money and you will have some left overs. I just see a lot of people "overspend" on stuff they cant afford "new cars" new houses, new snakes ext. and to me it seems like the "scenarios" they work out in there head about money and payments are always if everything goes perfectly. If you do decided to spend what you don't have just make sure you look at it in the "worst possible scenario" that could happen and if its still appealing go for it.

I would love to start breeding, and I plan on it eventually. My income is rather limited right now, but I think we'll be able to afford the bumblebee we want in a few months. After that, we will start saving and I will eventually buy a pastel pair, I'd like that to be my first breeding project. Since I'll buy them as hatchlings, I'll have a couple 2-3 years to save up the money and/or slowly buy what I need to start the breeding process. As much as I would love to buy adult breeders and everything required now, I know it isn't a feasible option. BP's live a long time, I'm still young, I have plenty of time if I can just get a handle on the patience aspect :).

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Originally Posted by Quacking-Terror

... BP's live a long time, I'm still young, I have plenty of time if I can just get a handle on the patience aspect :).

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Wise words!! I wish more people would think about it from that perspective rather than the "If I want it now then I should get it now!" point of view.

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Originally Posted by JLC

Wise words!! I wish more people would think about it from that perspective rather than the "If I want it now then I should get it now!" point of view.

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Thank you for the kind words :). Believe me, if money were not an issue, tomorrow you would see dozens of pictures pop up here on the forums because I'd get all the snakes I want. Pastels, Axanthics, Mojaves, all beautiful morphs, I think those are my top three.

Hey everybody, Thanks for all the great replies. I do currntly have four ball pythons plus other snakes. I already have an incubator and a full stock of sterilite tubs. I'm in the process of building a rack for these tubs. I asked the question because I would really like to get a morph to eventually put with my normals. I am thinking of something inexpensive like a pin or a spider. I just wanted to see what the general opinion out there was about this subject. No, I don't have a lrge surplus of cash. I volunteer at a local pet store on sundays(they're closed on sundays) my pay is feeders and other supplies that I need. Like, the replacement heat pad, when one dies. I am not looking for any free snakes, but would like to expand my collection, who here wouldn't. Three of the BPs, that I have now, I have had for 3.5 yrs. So, I guess, the ability of taking care of them is not an issue here. I agree with JLC completely, not being able to go right out and purchase a piebald does not mean that you are unable to take proper care of a Normal. Again, thanks you for all of the responses.

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

The fact is that breeding reptiles WILL cost hundreds of dollars.

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Thousands....:rolleyes:

How about a Yellowbelly male Reesy they make these:O

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/file...ideon_220g.jpg

Yellowbelly males are super inexpensive and amazing in their own right countless combo possibilities also.;)

I think I agree with everyone for the most part. Although I do like payment plans more for the fact that I usually HAVE the money for my purchase, but I like to give myself time to be absolutely sure I am stocked up on feeders and proper equipment for a snake. I'm not that impulsive of a buyer, but I DO try to be picky about who i get snakes from. If a good breeder has an animal I like that i can afford, I like to put a deposit as a hold. I do know that other animals will come along, but buying from someone good is important to me and I like to try and give good breeders repeat business when I can.
Though I do highly recommend research your favorite morphs and WAITING at least few months and save your money until you can afford what you want. Someday that perfect snake will come along and if you have been saving, you'll be ready for it! If you want a bumblebee, get a setup, hides, heat and all that, THEN think about putting the money down on the snake. I am able to ask my family for money instead of presents, but i know some people can't or do not have that option, but I usually set aside $20 per paycheck for projects, like new racks, thermostats, etc. Odd jobs can help me accumulate the funds I need. PLUS if you wait a little, you can see what morphs cost now and anticipate lesser costs next year. There are some morphs that most anyone with some spending money can afford if they funnel that extra money into a snake fund rather than a fancy dinner. I've bought bulk hamburger and rice so i could eat cheaply so i could buy TONS of feeders for my snakes. But I am also only supporting myself, so this won't work for everyone. Obviously don't starve yourself or your kids just for a morph! But don't settle for something JUST because it's a morph.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE ____ (pastels, pins, mojaves, spiders) DON'T GET ONE! XD This is supposed to be fun and enjoyable, not a race to see who can make the most spiders/mojaves/BEL, whatever. I waited many years to get a pastel because I couldn't afford them AND I wanted to buy the perfect snake. Sit tight, save up and don't bjuy it just because it's available- I've made impulse buys before and they almost never end well!
Or at least save it for non-living objects that are easy to return to the store!

I am in the same boat as you! I love the axanthic stripes but 10K is out of my price range! I mean really thats a car, right? I have started very slowly. I bought a pastel female on a payment plan from one of the top breeders and then picked up a male spider at a show. Talk about price difference! I paid 3x as much for my pastel! I now go to all repticon shows close to me. I have 8 balls now and we are just now talking about breeding next year for the first time. Also most breeders will give a repeat customer discount if you have bought from them before or if you buy more than one at a time.

Something else I did was make my own racks. There are tons of pictures and plans on the internet. And I made sure I could use different size tubs in it. So my rack will take sm, med, and large tubs all at the same time! I even made my own rat rack and made sure my ASF's can keep me in food if we have two clutches this next year. I even bought our thermostats at the show for $60 instead of the normal $120ish around here.

And I have made alot of friends! Talk to breeders at the shows. I have been welcomed with open arms by everyone at the shows!! They have never tired of my dumb or ignorant questions. Good Luck!

You should also know that making your own morph is more fun than just buying one, and see your collection grows. If this is why you are in it...

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Originally Posted by ace_singapore

You should also know that making your own morph is more fun than just buying one, and see your collection grows. If this is why you are in it...

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I do want to make my collection grow myself. However, I have to start with at least one morph. Again, not looking for any freebies. Just aked about the best way to get the ball rolling as far as the money was concerned.

When I was coming back to owning a snakes I had in mind that 'one day" I'll breed them... I was looking for a while for a snake i really want...

I bought Rack and thermostat first.... bough hides and supplies.. and was looking for a right snake.. Nothing fancy.. just right....

I agree that YB's especially males have great potential and are relatively inexpensive...

I bought mine for 150$ plus shipping and couldn't be more happy with him. In my Opinion he is an exceptional example of the morph... he is proven breeder.. but first off he is really cute animal ;) and I'm happy to have him as a pet not only as a future breeder.

Almost year passed since I bought him... and now I'm in the hunt for female for him...
Because I want try breed this spring.... money is an issue if You not looking for normal.. but with some luck....

I'm targeting now one granite... she is around breeding weight and age but because she is unproven... she have very appealing price...(she is good looking as well)

With right feeding she will be ready for spring... If She take ?? Have no idea... But if not... She will be ready for sure for late fall (begging of the season ) and this give me time to acquire more supplies (maybe fancier/safer incubator, some other stuff).

If She take.. and Prove.. that for sure will give me a boost (granite belly's are awesome and could give me nice trade value to make my collection more rich and variable)... but still if Not..... I'll have nice looking animal and for sure will enjoy it.

But remember that is always better to first make sure that You can carry right of Your animals..... Instead have fancy gem for a while and let it disappear because You dont be able give it right care...

I started the same way, what helped me is:
Take your time. When I started I thought pieds were expensive, but I loved them (still do!!!) so I bought two hets, female never went last year, hoping she will this year (4years and 1800grams now), and hopefully I'll get my beautiful baby pied I've always wanted!!

If you like something a lot, start at the beginning, I also like pied combo's, so I'm lining up the bases and will work toward the combo's.:) They'll probably drop in price by the time I get them, but so what? I want them just because they look amazing!:D

I have a little more cash flow now, and am starting on 4gene animals, but it all started with two hets...And a pewter male and a normal female who did give me a clutch that I sold to get some more morphs. :D

Don't get discouraged though!