Help me build the perfect tank for a b-day gift...

Hey guys,

I'm new to the forum, but i'm hoping ya'll can help me out. I'm building a snake cage/tank for my cousin (and his snake - Ball Python, adult size) as a birthday gift to him. He's been wanting/needing a new one for a while and i now have the money to do it for him. I've done hours and hours of research on Ball Pythons and enclosures for them because i have no experience when it comes to snakes, period. So, here it goes...

I'm building a 4 foot wide, 3 foot tall, and 2 foot deep enclosure. I'm using a 2 foot section of flexwatt as the belly heater and it is going to be sandwiched between to pieces of ceramic tile attached to a proportional thermostat (and i know all of you are going to freak out and say it's not safe, but i work with flexwatt for a living. it does not need to breath. being sandwiched is just fine as long as its below 95 degrees, which for a BP is more than enough heat.)

Now my question is, since the tank is 3 feet tall, i'm going to put a large piece of driftwood inside above where the flexwatt will be about a 1.5 feet up or higher. I want to make the driftwood a 90 degree basking area with a top mounted RHP (radient heat panel). the belly warmer is going to run cooler than 90 degrees. What size heat panel should i get? Also, would that be too much heat for that side of the cage? They are both going to be regulated by thermostats. but like i said, i'm new the the snake scene so i dont exactly know how much heat a RHP puts out or how far it traves/radiates.

Please let me know what you guys think on how i should set it up... or if you have any other ideas please feel free to voice them. i'll give a list of the items i have (not that i will need all of them, but some were given to me by a friend)

two hides, one for the cool side, one for the warm side,
a big water basin thing
two driftwood perches (one on each side about 1.5-2 ft each)
two decent sized air vents on each side of the tank
Two proportional thermostats (one Helix, one Herpstat)
A Ranco 111000 thermostat
one digital thermometer
1 humidistat
a rock to coil around (what hes using right now)
Substrate (what hes using right now)
A ZooMed UTH (what hes using right now)
A Flukers Ceramic Heat Lamp (what he's using right now)

any other suggestions as to what i might need would be much appreciated.

thats really cool you are doing that as a gift and it seems like you have some good ideas but the main thing is that the cage seems like it would be to big for a ball python even as an adult. I think it would be best to drop the height to about 1 foot and the length to around 2 or maybe 2 1/2 ft because ball pythons like small enclosures and for heat all you would really need is flexwatt for belly heat since they don't climb to much if at all

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Originally Posted by jefrow

thats really cool you are doing that as a gift and it seems like you have some good ideas but the main thing is that the cage seems like it would be to big for a ball python even as an adult. I think it would be best to drop the height to about 1 foot and the length to around 2 or maybe 2 1/2 ft because ball pythons like small enclosures and for heat all you would really need is flexwatt for belly heat since they don't climb to much if at all

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The thing is, for some reason, his snake LOVES to climb. He's in a 2-2.5 ft tall cage right now and likes to stretch/explore (i dunno if that's what you call it - snake newbie, sorry) upward and is head is always at the top of the cage. Only when he is sleeping or eating, he is curled up on the bottom of the tank. So my cousin has been asking for a 3 foot tank for a while now.

What do you think though? Like i said, i'm no expert when it comes to snakes, but every time i'm over there, the snake's head is moving around the top of the tank. Maybe next time i'm there, i can take a picture and show you what i mean?

The way i figure it also, is that if it is too tall to for the snake, i can just put a shelf in at the top and it'll cut the snake tank down by a foot.

So you're saying no RHP at all? and just regulate the flexwatt to ~90 degrees instead?

EDIT: his snake is a rather large Ball Python from what he says (longer than 4 feet). I dont know if that helps/makes a difference.

Hello, and :welcome: to BP.net...

It looks like you have a pretty good plan and plenty of equipment. In order to make suggestions on building an enclosure that the snake will be comfortable in and not stressed we need a little more info on the snake. Adult Ball Pythons have alot of variation in their size. They can be anywhere from 3-5ft long and weigh anywhere from 1100 grams to 4000+ grams. It would help alot if you could find out at least how long the snake is, how long your cousin has had it, and if it was a juvenile or already an adult when he got it. Also, what are the dimensions and type of enclosure is it currently housed in?

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Originally Posted by AnUnseenHope

What size heat panel should i get? Also, would that be too much heat for that side of the cage? They are both going to be regulated by thermostats. but like i said, i'm new the the snake scene so i dont exactly know how much heat a RHP puts out or how far it traves/radiates.

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To help with the RHP questions, here are the links to a couple of websites that sell them and these are their Info/FAQ pages:

http://www.reptilebasics.com/radiant...panel-faq.html

http://www.pro-products.com/index.ph...d=55&Itemid=59

Also, here is the link to the DIY and Caging sections of this forum, where you may be able to find some ideas:

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/forum...y-and-Supplies

Hope this helps some, for now...

Check out the DIY forum you will get lots of ideas and step by step instructions.

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Originally Posted by AnUnseenHope

The thing is, for some reason, his snake LOVES to climb. He's in a 2-2.5 ft tall cage right now and likes to stretch/explore (i dunno if that's what you call it - snake newbie, sorry) upward and is head is always at the top of the cage. Only when he is sleeping or eating, he is curled up on the bottom of the tank. So my cousin has been asking for a 3 foot tank for a while now.

What do you think though? Like i said, i'm no expert when it comes to snakes, but every time i'm over there, the snake's head is moving around the top of the tank. Maybe next time i'm there, i can take a picture and show you what i mean?

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Have you noticed if the snake is doing this during the daytime or mostly at night?

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Originally Posted by Vypyrz

Hello, and :welcome: to BP.net...

It looks like you have a pretty good plan and plenty of equipment. In order to make suggestions on building an enclosure that the snake will be comfortable in and not stressed we need a little more info on the snake. Adult Ball Pythons have alot of variation in their size. They can be anywhere from 3-5ft long and weigh anywhere from 1100 grams to 4000+ grams. It would help alot if you could find out at least how long the snake is, how long your cousin has had it, and if it was a juvenile or already an adult when he got it. Also, what are the dimensions and type of enclosure is it currently housed in?

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I know for a fact that the snake is over 4 feet long, but definitely not 5. Lets say its between 4 and 4 1/2 feet. As for the weight, i'm not exactly sure how to go about getting that? And i dont think my cousin knows either. It's a surprise gift so i don't know even know how i would get that information from him anyways.

My cousin has had the snake for almost 4 years now and he got it as an adult. It was already full grown when he got it.

The enclosure it is in right now is 3 feet wide, 1 foot in depth at it's narrowest points (the two sides) and 1.5 feet at its thickest (where it bows outward in the center front), and 2 feet tall.

Also, I'm going to build the new tank 2 feet tall only and tell him that 3 feet is just WAY too big. The guy at the reptile shop today was showing me some tanks and talking about ball pythons, even showed me some in their environment. I explained to him that the snake loves to go upward a lot and he said that's fine but 3 feet is still too much.

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Originally Posted by Vypyrz

Have you noticed if the snake is doing this during the daytime or mostly at night?

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I've really only been over there in the day time. So i can't really say if it's ONLY during the day, or both day and night. From what i've read though, they are great escape artists and maybe it's just him trying to find a way out? since the opening to the current cage is at the top...

You've got some great tips, so all I'll say is that its awesome you are doing this for your cousin and his snake :)

Also, another question... should i have any plants in there? or fake plants? vines? what would you suggest? what do they like?

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Originally Posted by AnUnseenHope

The enclosure it is in right now is 3 feet wide, 1 foot in depth at it's narrowest points (the two sides) and 1.5 feet at its thickest (where it bows outward in the center front), and 2 feet tall.

Also, I'm going to build the new tank 2 feet tall only and tell him that 3 feet is just WAY too big. The guy at the reptile shop today was showing me some tanks and talking about ball pythons, even showed me some in their environment. I explained to him that the snake loves to go upward a lot and he said that's fine but 3 feet is still too much.

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Originally Posted by AnUnseenHope

I've really only been over there in the day time. So i can't really say if it's ONLY during the day, or both day and night.

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Originally Posted by AnUnseenHope

Also, another question... should i have any plants in there? or fake plants? vines? what would you suggest? what do they like?

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Ball Pythons are nocturnal. They should be sleeping most of the day and mostly be active in the evening and night. About the only time you should see them out in the daytime is if they are moving from one hide to the other or getting a drink of water. Excessive daytime roaming is a sign of stress and is a problem. I suspect that the 2ft height of the enclosure is the cause. I had the same thing happen with my first Ball Python and when I moved him into a shorter tank he calmed down. These are snakes that primarily live in the ground and aren't too fond of tall enclosures. The best thing that I could recommend is when you build the enclosure, go ahead and make it 3ft tall, then install a shelf to divide it. Make the snakes living space about 15 inches tall. Then you can add some shelves and doors to the other section and use it as storage for supplies or a place to mount the thermostat and keep the wires out of sight or something like that. I know 15" doesn't sound like much, but BP's just tend to do better in tanks that are 12-15 inches tall. Plus it will be easier to regulate the temps and humidity.
Fake vines are ok to use in tanks, you just have to make sure that there aren't any sharp points to injure the snake and check the ends to make sure that there aren't any loops for the snake to get hung in. Hopefully this will help and at least give you a direction to think in...

Why not buy a single 4-channel Herpstat Pro?

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Originally Posted by eracer

Why not buy a single 4-channel Herpstat Pro?

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Why buy a herpstat pro for one tank? He only needs a single channel thermostat.

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Originally Posted by Vypyrz

Ball Pythons are nocturnal. They should be sleeping most of the day and mostly be active in the evening and night. About the only time you should see them out in the daytime is if they are moving from one hide to the other or getting a drink of water. Excessive daytime roaming is a sign of stress and is a problem. I suspect that the 2ft height of the enclosure is the cause. I had the same thing happen with my first Ball Python and when I moved him into a shorter tank he calmed down. These are snakes that primarily live in the ground and aren't too fond of tall enclosures. The best thing that I could recommend is when you build the enclosure, go ahead and make it 3ft tall, then install a shelf to divide it. Make the snakes living space about 15 inches tall. Then you can add some shelves and doors to the other section and use it as storage for supplies or a place to mount the thermostat and keep the wires out of sight or something like that. I know 15" doesn't sound like much, but BP's just tend to do better in tanks that are 12-15 inches tall. Plus it will be easier to regulate the temps and humidity.
Fake vines are ok to use in tanks, you just have to make sure that there aren't any sharp points to injure the snake and check the ends to make sure that there aren't any loops for the snake to get hung in. Hopefully this will help and at least give you a direction to think in...

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ok im confused on what you are sayin here, i keep hearin people say there is such thing as to big...just dont understand how u take something where it has no borders and put it in a tank/cage and say its to big, yes i know they spend most of the time in the tunnels and only come out when they have to and they have the closeness they want while in thier but when they do venture out there is no 12-15 in celing everywhere they go...any answers will b helpfull

thx, justin

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Originally Posted by eracer

Why not buy a single 4-channel Herpstat Pro?

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It's not necessary... Especially since i already have these 3 thermostats. Otherwise, a Herpstat Pro might have been fathomable.

So far i'm getting mixed opinions on running the flexwatt AND the RHP. A lot of people are saying that the flexwatt is good enough to heat the whole tank, therefore i wouldn't even need a Herpstat Pro if i'm only going to be controlling one heating element.

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Originally Posted by Vypyrz

Ball Pythons are nocturnal. They should be sleeping most of the day and mostly be active in the evening and night. About the only time you should see them out in the daytime is if they are moving from one hide to the other or getting a drink of water. Excessive daytime roaming is a sign of stress and is a problem. I suspect that the 2ft height of the enclosure is the cause. I had the same thing happen with my first Ball Python and when I moved him into a shorter tank he calmed down. These are snakes that primarily live in the ground and aren't too fond of tall enclosures. The best thing that I could recommend is when you build the enclosure, go ahead and make it 3ft tall, then install a shelf to divide it. Make the snakes living space about 15 inches tall. Then you can add some shelves and doors to the other section and use it as storage for supplies or a place to mount the thermostat and keep the wires out of sight or something like that. I know 15" doesn't sound like much, but BP's just tend to do better in tanks that are 12-15 inches tall. Plus it will be easier to regulate the temps and humidity.
Fake vines are ok to use in tanks, you just have to make sure that there aren't any sharp points to injure the snake and check the ends to make sure that there aren't any loops for the snake to get hung in. Hopefully this will help and at least give you a direction to think in...

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Thank you for the helpful information. I think i'm going to make it two feet tall with shelves to start out with and get all of the temperature zones correct, as well as the humidity. It seems as if he may be stressed in the tank he is currently in. I don't think my cousin has it regulated very well, but i'm not sure. Anyways, if the snake still wants to wander upward after a few weeks, i'll take the shelf out and readjust things to get the temp zones/humidity back and see what happens.

personaly ideal I seal/paint the wood really good iwth a sealant of some type. I build a cage once ( back befoer I joined the forum ) it housed 5 snakes at once I had used what iseen in pet stores to make it. ( dummy me) but I found when I went to move it ( was huge to move a 5x4x3 wooden cage ), that the bottom had molded from were the water bowel and they crapping in the hides had allowed the wood to mold and start to rot.
when I build smaller 4x2x2 cages I got some bed liner paint nd sealed the bottom 8 inches of wood to prevent this worked great ( would been better sealed if i ran some slicone between the peieces before assembly) I also set the smaller cage up with divdiers which house the ball python great ( i had taped the flexwatt to my floor then painted over with the liner worked great for me and never shorted out )

if want to make the cage more escape resisent take the front and groove it to allow your glass to sit in ( mine was on metal tracks ) and allowed a large over lap in middle and a good 1/4 inch into the wood for all sides. I just ran a vaccum int the tracks once a month to get shavings and any glass dust out.


I also ask cousin /family if there are possible pland for more snakes in the future and if so why not build a rack and with some tubs. this way it can be a started project and save moeny later one ( looking at the ideal of a simple 3 tub unit to start out with for my niece and nephew if they ever can prove they take care of a snake properly.

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Originally Posted by mechnut450

personaly ideal I seal/paint the wood really good iwth a sealant of some type. I build a cage once ( back befoer I joined the forum ) it housed 5 snakes at once I had used what iseen in pet stores to make it. ( dummy me) but I found when I went to move it ( was huge to move a 5x4x3 wooden cage ), that the bottom had molded from were the water bowel and they crapping in the hides had allowed the wood to mold and start to rot.
when I build smaller 4x2x2 cages I got some bed liner paint nd sealed the bottom 8 inches of wood to prevent this worked great ( would been better sealed if i ran some slicone between the peieces before assembly) I also set the smaller cage up with divdiers which house the ball python great ( i had taped the flexwatt to my floor then painted over with the liner worked great for me and never shorted out )

if want to make the cage more escape resisent take the front and groove it to allow your glass to sit in ( mine was on metal tracks ) and allowed a large over lap in middle and a good 1/4 inch into the wood for all sides. I just ran a vaccum int the tracks once a month to get shavings and any glass dust out.


I also ask cousin /family if there are possible pland for more snakes in the future and if so why not build a rack and with some tubs. this way it can be a started project and save moeny later one ( looking at the ideal of a simple 3 tub unit to start out with for my niece and nephew if they ever can prove they take care of a snake properly.

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As we speak, i am staining the outside satin black and the vent trim and front trim are cherry stained oak. The inside is going to be sealed with a satin water based polyurethane. and all of the corners and cracks are going to be siliconed. It will have a ceramic tile floor as well, so it will definitely be water-proof/resistant.

As for him getting another snake, I don't think it is going to happen. If anything, he'd get another animal or SMALL reptile.

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Originally Posted by floridayank22

ok im confused on what you are sayin here, i keep hearin people say there is such thing as to big...just dont understand how u take something where it has no borders and put it in a tank/cage and say its to big, yes i know they spend most of the time in the tunnels and only come out when they have to and they have the closeness they want while in thier but when they do venture out there is no 12-15 in celing everywhere they go...any answers will b helpfull

thx, justin

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Some snakes can handle larger enclosures and some can't. I based my recommendation on the info that was provided by the OP, and without the specific husbandry and feeding details, I went with what was given. That's why I asked about what the snake was currently living in. If it's living in a large enclosure and not having any issues then I would say go ahead and keep it in one, but when you have a nocturnal animal roaming and climbing the tank during the day time, that is a good indicator that something is causing the the snake stress, and I had to deal with this exact behavior last year with a BP, so when I see that a snake doesn't seem to be acting right, the first thing I ask is what size of enclosure they're in and what the temps are. Personally, and this is strictly my opinion, I think a snakes ability to adapt has alot to do with how they are started out. If a Ball Python is born in a burrow in West Africa, and from day 1 their whole life is moving through the tall grass and under scrub bushes looking for their next meal and the next burrow to sleep in, that is what they adapt to. If you apply this principle to captive bred Ball Pythons, for me, the correlation makes perfect sense. If a young BP is started out in a tank, and kept in tanks, then they adapt to that environment and the space that goes with it. Now, if you start a young BP out in a tub, kept in a rack, then that close quartered lifestyle is what they adapt to, so it only makes sense that if you take a snake that has lived in a 41quart tub for the last 3 or 4 years and suddenly put them in a large enclosure, they have trouble adapting. This is what happened to me last year. I decided that I wanted another BP, so I went out and spent alot of money on setting up a nice 50 gallon display tank because I knew that I wanted an adult. I went to a reptile show and found a nice, big BP that was 54" long and weighed about 2400 grams. The breeder was selling him because he didn't fit in with breeding plans anymore. I got him home and put him in the tank. The tank measured 36 X 18 X 18. The BP was already longer than the tank and I was afraid it was going to be too small. Starting the very next day I noticed him roaming the tank during the day. I figured he would calm down after a few days. He would roam the tank from about 9:00pm till sunrise, almost non-stop. He would climb up the side and then try to crawl upside down along the bottom of the tank top until he would fall over. Then he would also do this for several hours during the day, and he refused to eat. I was worried that he would fall over and hurt his eyes or something. After a month of this behavior I gave in and moved him into a 60 quart tub. It had about the same floor space as the tank but was only about 6 inches tall. Within about 3 days he completely calmed down and started eating. And then it occurred to me one day, that since he had been part of a breeding program, he probably had spent his life living in a tub and may never had been in a tank. Why does it happen? I doubt anyone knows. Maybe it's some type of Reptile Agoraphobia that they develope. There is such a huge lack of scientific study and data on snakes that we have to rely on both personal experience and that of others. The OP is the only one who will ultimately decide what size of enclosure he will build for his cousin, but he did ask for opinions and suggestions, and based on the info that he provided, I made a recommendation, and I stand by it...

I just want to say, I applaud you for coming here to research for your project instead of just building it with good intentions but no knowledge.

If you are doing it 4' long, that is really big for a ball python, so you are going to want to make sure you give the snake two identical hides at each end, as well as cluttering up the bottom with fake plants and bits of wood or bark, etc.

Fake plants are fine, I recommend silk over plastic, they are easier to clean and less likely to have injurious parts. Try to find some without metal stems, they will eventually rust even if plastic coated. Make sure there are no sharp points and no loops for the snake to get stuck in.

You will have a hard time keeping a cage that size evenly heated with just flexwatt, so a RHP might not be a bad idea, depending on the ambient temperature of the room the snake stays in.

Humidity is another issue with a tank that large, so you might want to research methods to help with the humidity in the DYI forum here.

Best of luck with your project, I bet your cousin will be thrilled.

Gale

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Originally Posted by angllady2

I just want to say, I applaud you for coming here to research for your project instead of just building it with good intentions but no knowledge.

If you are doing it 4' long, that is really big for a ball python, so you are going to want to make sure you give the snake two identical hides at each end, as well as cluttering up the bottom with fake plants and bits of wood or bark, etc.

Fake plants are fine, I recommend silk over plastic, they are easier to clean and less likely to have injurious parts. Try to find some without metal stems, they will eventually rust even if plastic coated. Make sure there are no sharp points and no loops for the snake to get stuck in.

You will have a hard time keeping a cage that size evenly heated with just flexwatt, so a RHP might not be a bad idea, depending on the ambient temperature of the room the snake stays in.

Humidity is another issue with a tank that large, so you might want to research methods to help with the humidity in the DYI forum here.

Best of luck with your project, I bet your cousin will be thrilled.

Gale

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Thanks Gale.

I have shortened the cage by a foot, so it will now be a 2 foot tall tank with a 1 foot shelf on top that is removable in case the snake still wants more room. I've been looking at the DIY forums thanks to all of the posters in this thread and i have some pretty good ideas of what i'm going to do.

With a 2 foot tall tank, would the flexwatt be enough heat?

I'll be sure to post pictures of the process and what it looks like at the end.

We just built two cages that are both 3x2x2ft with flexwatt under a piece of flooring ran by a rheostat and a florescent light kit. The total space for one of these is equal to a 55 gallon tank and stays pretty stable once set up, the bit higher shouldn't bother to snake too much as long as it kept dark and comfortable for them. We only turn the light on when we're in the room since we have a light kit over our aquarium that's set for 12hr cycles. The ball I've got in one doesn't seem stressed at all with the height of the cage, same with the young boa in the other. Here's a pic of what the cages look like http://i207.photobucket.com/albums/b...s/SANY0546.jpg (excuse the mess, we had to move an old dresser out before putting everyone back into their new homes.)

1/8 inch glass or 1/4 inch glass for sliding doors?