Seems to be a very active topic....

Spider wobble... one thing I was told when I first started breeding was the more genetics expressed with the spider the less wobble it would have... like if you bred a really wobbly spider into a lemon blast, and got the a spinner blast, the wobble wouldn't be so bad.... never really believed it... but, what's your take on it?

Well not all spiders have the wobble issue.I have a female that does not wobble one bit.

All I know is that after seeing these, I might have to get in on spiders now!

Calider:
http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1884606,1884606

Calider Bee:
http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1884604,1884604

All spiders wobble to an extent. Having more genetics in the snake wont reduce the wobble at all. Each spider is different as they age

Wow that Calider bee is insane!

I think the spider wobble resulted from too much inbreeding of the spider gene. and thats why it is a problem only with the spider gene, so outbreeding the spider gene into other morphs in my opinion should reduce it, however I think that further inbreeding of the spider gene will only exponentially increase the amount of 'wobble' that is expressed. I have not seen the wobble too bad in too many spiders being sold recently tho, which I think is good. My spider doesnt wobble at all, atleast not that I've noticed.

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Originally Posted by Powerspythons

I think the spider wobble resulted from too much inbreeding of the spider gene. and thats why it is a problem only with the spider gene, so outbreeding the spider gene into other morphs in my opinion should reduce it, however I think that further inbreeding of the spider gene will only exponentially increase the amount of 'wobble' that is expressed. I have not seen the wobble too bad in too many spiders being sold recently tho, which I think is good. My spider doesnt wobble at all, atleast not that I've noticed.

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Not Even Close.

Some that have been looking deeper into the gene say the spider wobble could be result to an equilibrium issue which is nothing to do with inbreeding.

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Not Even Close.

Some that have been looking deeper into the gene say the spider wobble could be result to an equilibrium issue which is nothing to do with inbreeding.

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Sounds like one opinion defending a point of view that is contrary to a differing opinion supporting an alternate point of view.

Does anyone have facts?

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Originally Posted by Powerspythons

I think the spider wobble resulted from too much inbreeding of the spider gene. and thats why it is a problem only with the spider gene, so outbreeding the spider gene into other morphs in my opinion should reduce it, however I think that further inbreeding of the spider gene will only exponentially increase the amount of 'wobble' that is expressed. I have not seen the wobble too bad in too many spiders being sold recently tho, which I think is good. My spider doesnt wobble at all, atleast not that I've noticed.

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Where is all this supposed inbreeding of spiders taking place? Being a dominant morph, no inbreeding was ever needed to create bunches and bunches of them. SOME inbreeding might have been done to try and create the "super spider" but certainly not anywhere near the amount we've seen with recessive morphs that show no such genetic defect.

And if it was possible to "breed out" the wobble, then I would have thought it'd be a lot more rare than it is today.

I do believe it is some sort of neurological tweak that goes hand in hand with whatever gene gives us the spider appearance...and the severity of that "tweak" differs greatly just like the amount of white on their sides differs.

To all your responses...It was just my opinion of what I thought could have been the source, I havnt researched it so I have no facts, but we all know that inbreeding does occur whether it needs to or not...no need to shoot me down and make me feel dumb. :(

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Originally Posted by JandDReptiles

Spider wobble... one thing I was told when I first started breeding was the more genetics expressed with the spider the less wobble it would have... like if you bred a really wobbly spider into a lemon blast, and got the a spinner blast, the wobble wouldn't be so bad.... never really believed it... but, what's your take on it?

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Lies and marketing, that is all.

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Originally Posted by Powerspythons

I think the spider wobble resulted from too much inbreeding of the spider gene. and thats why it is a problem only with the spider gene, so outbreeding the spider gene into other morphs in my opinion should reduce it, however I think that further inbreeding of the spider gene will only exponentially increase the amount of 'wobble' that is expressed. I have not seen the wobble too bad in too many spiders being sold recently tho, which I think is good. My spider doesnt wobble at all, atleast not that I've noticed.

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It's been pretty well documented that this is not the case, and that the presence of the spider trait is the only factor in spider wobbling.

If it was a case of inbreeding, then the "normal" siblings to spiders would also wobble.

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Originally Posted by Powerspythons

I think the spider wobble resulted from too much inbreeding of the spider gene. and thats why it is a problem only with the spider gene, so outbreeding the spider gene into other morphs in my opinion should reduce it, however I think that further inbreeding of the spider gene will only exponentially increase the amount of 'wobble' that is expressed. I have not seen the wobble too bad in too many spiders being sold recently tho, which I think is good. My spider doesnt wobble at all, atleast not that I've noticed.

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Spiders are one of the LEAST inbred morphs that there are because it's dominant. All spiders wobble - no matter how many other mutations you breed into it.

Even when I was up at Kevin's he had four or five banger and it was wobbling and he said "as you can see, at least one of the genes is spider from the wobble". This was one of his new creations that he hasn't released all the "ingredients" on yet.

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

It's been pretty well documented that this is not the case, and that the presence of the spider trait is the only factor in spider wobbling.

If it was a case of inbreeding, then the "normal" siblings to spiders would also wobble.

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Excellent point.

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Originally Posted by Powerspythons

To all your responses...It was just my opinion of what I thought could have been the source, I havnt researched it so I have no facts, but we all know that inbreeding does occur whether it needs to or not...no need to shoot me down and make me feel dumb. :(

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No one is trying to shoot you down and make you feel dumb. You're not the first person with this "theory". We're simply trying to dispel that myth.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

No one is trying to shoot you down and make you feel dumb. You're not the first person with this "theory". We're simply trying to dispel that myth.

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Alright so obviously I should have done some google action before coming up with my incorrect opinion...but what's the real cause then!?!?!?!?! Is is like a chromosome imbalance or could it be caused by something like an extra/flawed chromosome(I think that's what causes things like mental retardation and down syndrome)? WHAT IS IT PEOPLE!?!?! :P

PS. even with the wobble the spider is still the coolest!!IMO

It's weird how inter-connected some things in the body can be.

We can't answer your question because no one knows for sure, because at best there are only guesses at what causes the wobble, we can't even really make a good theory on how the wobble and pattern/color change are related.

Just from observation of my spider i believe it to be a equilibrium issue as well. It doesn't seem to me that Charlie (my spider) seems to understand that he's upside-down.

Sent from my T-Mobile myTouch 3G using Tapatalk

Theoretically all things caring the Spider gene, including the Spider of course, wobble. Whether it is noticeable or not, sometimes yes, sometimes no. Mathematically it makes sense that the wobble symptoms would decrease, however this is yet to be genetically proven.

Spiders are still inbred. That's a fact. Just about all BP's are inbred at some point. Once again, that's a fact.

Wobble doesn’t just mean that the snake will corkscrew or turn upside down. It can be as subtle as a head slightly cocking. Like a dog looking at you will sometimes tilt its head. That slight tilt is also part of the wobble. So far they all have it to some extent to my knowledge.

From what I can tell.... this is still a very hotly debated topic... LOL. I personally believe all spiders have the wobble. I agree with TessadasExotics on the statement of wobble isn't just the corkscrewing... but head tilting as well. My Spinner Blast from NERD has a slight head tilt... and I've been to NERD and seen his 4-5 gene snakes have the tilt or wobbles from having spider in them... which right there proves that the wobble never really goes away... just wanted to see what others have heard, or had experience with.

For the record, I think a better name than "wobble" would be Spider Ball Python Neurologic Syndrome. (At least, until we can localize the etiology; then it could be "Vestibular Syndrome" or "Cerebellar Hypoplasia," etc., etc.) But that's also way too nerdy. And too long. :rolleyes:

Kind of interesting that the "wobbles" can be used as a marker to indicate the presence of the spider gene when you can't tell whatall is in a super combo morph!

Though, wouldn't that not quite work if you had a "mystery wobbler" that could also have sable and champagne in the same morph?

Spider are one of the most outbred morph out there and wobble has nothing to do with it.

Spiders all wobble / spin to an extent from hardly noticeable by some to extreme train wrecks, it is variable so his the amount of spinning / wobbling in their combos.

Severe wobbler can produce hatchlings that hardly wobble and vice versa, the wobbling in one individual can increase or decrease over time as well but it is always there you just need to know what to look for.

Spiders just like some other morphs that are known for their issues are not for everyone, which is why some people not to work with specific morphs, the bottom line is to be informed and know what you are getting into prior to purchase or work with a specific animal.

I have heard that the original spider had the wobble as well; however, I've never looked into it.

I thought this animal was incredible and purchased it as soon as I saw it. The animal and photo are from Steve Roussis. It looks to me to be a paradox Spied. The body is all white and the head is approx. 1/3 spider in appearance. It also has one spider eye and one normal eye. I find it interesting that it also looks at me like a spider with the tilted head look...

http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/p..._1sml-med1.jpg

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Originally Posted by Dave Green

I have heard that the original spider had the wobble as well; however, I've never looked into it.

I thought this animal was incredible and purchased it as soon as I saw it. The animal and photo are from Steve Roussis. It looks to me to be a paradox Spied. The body is all white and the head is approx. 1/3 spider in appearance. It also has one spider eye and one normal eye. I find it interesting that it also looks at me like a spider with the tilted head look...

http://i405.photobucket.com/albums/p..._1sml-med1.jpg

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I love that Spied! Superb purchase if you ask me.

Interestingly, all the spieds I've seen in person have been white body/patterned heads.

If I remeber right . all speids are either white body and a spider head or all white.. Seems the spider makes the peid get rid of all the body coloring!