idk what's wrong...

so i got my ball python about a month ago and since coming home, she hasn't eaten. the first week or so she was shedding so i offered food once or twice but i kind of let her go after that. after she shed, i've offered food 6-8 times (i don't want to keep trying and stress her) and she refuses. they fed her f/t in the pet store and i feed her what i bought there. i've tried feeding her in and out of her enclosure, at night and during the day, i've covered her up, i've left the fuzzy overnight, i've poked a hole in the head, i've wiggled the fuzzy, i always warm up the fuzzy in hot water and she seems more scared of the mouse than interested in eating it. i'm afraid to try live for that reason.. she either ignores the mouse or gets frightened when i move it. i dont want a live mouse to hurt her.

as far as my husbandry goes, the temps and humidity are right according to the thermometer and she also explores her whole viv almost every night. she stays in her hide during the day and at night she spends some time on the cool side and some time basking on her branch. she's pretty active and i've definitely noticed an increase in her activity this past week or so (maybe i finally got her temps up to a good level or maybe she's just getting used to her environment). we handled her a bit at first (prob a bad idea), but the past week and a half i've let her go completely not even trying to take her out to feed her (i really didnt want to feed in the enclosure but i gave in and tried so i didn't increase the stress).


she's also about a foot and a half long. she doesn't look like she's lost much weight and her skin doesnt seem loose but i'm just nervous that she's starving. according to the feeding chart, at the pet store they attempted to feed her every 4 days (she didn't always eat the first day but, unless she was shedding, she almost always ate the 2nd day in a row they offered food) could she just have been overfed and she's not hungry? it's been over a month since she's eaten and i'm really starting to worry. when is it time that i take her to a vet?

What is the enclosure? Pics? What do you use to measure temps and humiidty? What is the heat source?

Trying to feed 6-8 times in a 2-3 week period is a lot. Also you said you tried to feed 2-3 times in the first week or so.

If she has a lot of hides and 3 sides of the cage are covered so it's private and she doesn't feel exposed and the temps are correct, then leave her alone without changing the stuff, moving her around or bugging her about eating for a while so she can settle in. Babies are often nervous and need some time to settle in and from what you've said, you've been messing about with things a lot trying to make it perfect for her.

There's a ton of tricks for helping her be comfortable enough to eat. First is to make certain she has lots of hides, the proper heat/humidity and you might end up having to offer live to get her eating, then switch to F/T. Maybe you need to heat the FT a bit more? Can you use a hair dryer to heat the outside up mroe before you offer it?

Post up what kind of enclosure and heat and temp sensor you have, and I'm sure that folks will have plenty of suggestions you can do!

Is she round or more triangular shaped? If she's round she should be fine without food for a while.

How long are you waiting between feeding attempts. It sounds like she's still stressed since she's acting scared of the rat. This may be due to offering her food too frequently (which 6-8 times in the last 3-4 weeks is far to often). If she refuses food, don't offer food for an entire week. The next week offer food again.

Good job on leaving her alone for now and leaving her in her enclosure for feeding attempts. That should definitely reduce stress.

Usually I'd suggest offering live since most Ball Pythons will readily accept live when refusing F/T, but it sounds to me like she's just stressed, so live wouldn't help that issue at all. A live rat would probably just cause additional stress.

LGL said it. Stress can be extremely harmful to your snake. Let her be for about a week. This also means no handling. Cage cleaning is an exception.

my set up is a 20 gal screen top with aluminum foil on one side and a light on the other (blacklight for night and bluelight for day) and another basking light focused on her branch on the side of the viv. hide is half on the cool and half on the hot side. i have an UTH that stays on medium (my apartment is about 68-70 degrees so low doesn't raise the temps enough). i use a sponge and spray water for humidity. water dish is on the cool side. the thermometer is on the back wall (hot side) close to the ground. the temp reads between 83 and 90 all the time (fluctuating a few degrees, mostly at night). i don't know the exact temp, but the basking area is concentrated under a light so the temp is a bit higher there (not too much though because the light isnt strong and it's on the other side of the glass). the cool side is 75-80 because it's under the aluminum foil to keep the heat in, but there's no direct heat source.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cydneyx3

my set up is a 20 gal

---

Besides frequent feeding attempts, this would be the other problem. If she's roughly 18 inches, she's a hatchling. A 20 gallon tank is far too large for a hatchling. I'd suggest something smaller until she has a chance to grow out of it. Maybe something like a Kritter Keeper or even a 10 gallon tank. The cage should be downsided though. Once you switch cages, wait 7-10 days before offering a meal. If she refuses, wait a week and try again. That should solve the problem right there. Best of luck! Keep us updated.

I went straight to a 20g tank and mine was about the same size when i got her. The important thing is to make sure she has a good secure hide.

For the longest time, mine loved this log that to me looked almost flat, but there was just enough room under it for her to squeeze under. She loved that, so it was kind of sad when she out grew it and I had to replace it. She went roaming all over until I finally found a new hide she liked.

Snakes that don't feel secure will roam a lot and usually won't eat. Exploring isn't always good.

On first thought, cover the sides and back of the tank with black paper. If the thermometer is a dial that you stick on, get rid of it and get a digital. Your temps may be too high with 3 heat sources(two lights and a UTH) or even if it's just a single light and a UTH.

Add in a hide so that you have a fully enclosed hide on each the cool and hot sides of the tank. Half logs don't feel as secure, so make sure it's a bowl with a door type, like a little den that encloses her, no so big that another snake could fit in with her.

If the temps are too high, and with a basking light AND a lamp AND a UTH, it's very possible, that would account for her being stressed and not eating etc. The stick-on kinds are notorious for giving wildly false readings. If it's just too much heat, it's an easy fix too.

You should be able to have her fixed up in no time.

i feel like she's starting to look like she needs to eat now.. she's looking a little triangular and the skin is a bit looser.. not drastic but it's been over a month and i'm just really worried. how do i know when it's time to take her to the vet? or should i try live before i take her to the vet? or is feeding her live (considering her lack of interest/fear of the f/t food) a really risky idea?

Feeding live isn't an issue as long as it is supervised. You don't want the mouse/rat to take a note out of your snake. Just have a chopstick ready to stick in its mouth if needed.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk

All I feed is live from hatchling to adult. No risk to offering a well hydrated and fed appropriately sized mouse to her. If she doesn't eat it in 30 minutes, remove it.

However - what I'd suggest first is to fill her enclosure with loosely crumpled newspaper to help her feel more settled and secure, since she's in such a large enclosure for her size. After you see that her restless behavior has calmed down a bit, drop the live mouse (with the paper in the enclosure) into her tank and walk away. Check back in about 30 minutes and the mouse should be gone and your snake will have a nice lump in her.

I went through the same thing with my Sorcha when I brought her home. She absolutely refused f/t no matter what methods I used for heating it up and offering it to her. I finally caved after 5 weeks and gave her a live fuzzy. It took her a whole of 2.5 seconds to strike and constrict.

I too was concerned with feeding live as there are so many horror stories about how mice can hurt your snake. However, while dealing with fuzzies I wouldn't be overly concerned. In my experiences, Sorcha strikes so fast and so hard that the fuzzy never even has a chance to react let alone try to bite.

My girl is 19.5" long. Her home is a 29 gallon aquarium. I've had many tell me that it's too big for her but she seems to like it just fine. I've never noticed her acting intimidated or overwhelmed by the size. I'm sure it makes a difference though that I have it very naturalized and cluttered up for her with fake vines, plants, hides, etc.

I'd recommend offering her live. Like some previous responders have said you can always try later on to switch her back on to f/t. I also recommend just feeding her in her normal home until she becomes more used to you, her surroundings and eating on a regular schedule.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!

:snake:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shadows Valkyrie

I too was concerned with feeding live as there are so many horror stories about how mice can hurt your snake.

:snake:

---

It's a shame that all those stories are out there. They're grossly exaggerated, IMHO. I've never had problems in over 15K live feedings since I've been keeping ball pythons.

after hiding in her hide all week, she finally came out to get a drink and half her skin is off..

why is she shedding again so soon? (she hasnt eaten yet and it's been a month, tops.)

is that why she wouldn't eat? (because she was getting ready to shed again)

she had a great shed last time.. why isnt it so great this time?

in the almost 2 months that i've had her, she's shed her skin twice and not eaten once. what is the deal?

when there young its normol for them to shed dat much about the feeding i dont no good luck

..so she's still not eating. i left her alone for at least 2-3 weeks and finally tried to feed her in her enclosure today. I even tried a darker colored fuzzy this time and i left the fuzzy there overnight. no luck. should i give in and try live or take her to the vet?

Have you ever heard of assisted feeding? I have attached a link showing you video's of how to perform it successfully for finicky Ball Pythons. You may have to do this a few times but your snake should eventually come around. Good Luck:gj:


http://www.vidoevo.com/videosearch.p...+a+ball+python

The vet won't be able to really help you with this issue.

Here, this canned reply might help :)

OK, so i notice a ton of threads on here about "omg my snake wont eat." Ive compiled some info on fixing this issue. (Please excuse my run on sentences). Oh, and all this stuff has to do with F/T feeders unless otherwise noted.

The following information can be used after ruling out the other causes for refusals : PLEASE check the sticky care sheet for that info. ( your enclosure is appropriately sized for the snake, the temperatures and humidity are in the proper range and being measured with proper probes and temp units, hides are tight fitting and opaque etc).

- stress due to enclosure size
- stress due to frequent handling
- having the enclosure in a high traffic area
- etc.

Feeder Quality
The quality of your feeders matters. I had some older feeders who were not in the best shape, I got new much better looking, smelling and appearing feeders from a few vendors at a local show and it REALLY showed when i went to feed my snakes with these new feeders. Personally, if i have a refusal i don't re-freeze the rodent. I use quite a bit of time to defrost so i dont trust them. Luckily, i have a garbage disposal of a spider female and just give her the left overs.

When picking out feeders, look for clean whole animals (the occasional rodent missing a tail tip or foot is completely acceptable, as is the occasional urine stain especially on a white mouse or rat. Or a few poops). Rodents, even frozen ones do SMELL rodent-y. Its like an earthy musty smell. When the rodents smell FOUL you want to discard them.

Anyway, onto the more useful info:

PRE SCENT PRE SCENT PRE SCENT.
Pre scenting, i have noticed, will trigger most snakes to go into feeding mode. What I do personally, is stick the mice and rats im going to feed my snakes into an empty tub in their rack (i feed frozen thawed and happen to have empty rack space in my rack). I let the rodents defrost for about 5 hours or more. The larger items go over the heat tape, the smaller ones don't have to. I then take out a hair dryer and give all the rodents a quick blast with it on low. I usually have the hair dryer on, but not directly on the rodents because you dont want to cook them. Within 30 seconds all my snakes are out cursing their enclosures looking for food.

Other methods of presenting are leaving the rodents to thaw near the enclosure of the snake. Weather it be a live rodent or defrosting in a baggie with warm water and leaving the corner of the baggie open.

Always make sure your rodents are warm enough. They should feel warm to the touch (not hot, not cold). And make sure they are thoroughly defrosted. You can check this by squeezing the ribs and stomach of the rodent lightly. If you get give the rodent is defrosted. If you squeeze and you dont feel any movement of the ribs, then the rodent is not yet defrosted .

SWITCHING PREY TYPES and SCENTING:
Ball pythons can be pretty picky when it comes to their food. If they like mice, sometimes they want to stay on mice, but you want to move them to rats (for whatever reason you choose).

Always try just feeding the wanted prey type first, you'd be surprised how many snakes just don't care and smell "rodent" instead of individualizing, and end up eating.

If you feed F/T, defrost 2 prey items that together reach the size of the prey item you want to feed your snake. Have one of them be the first prey type, and the other be the second prey type. Take the first prey item (hereby called mouse) and rub it all over the second prey item (we'll call that one rat). I usually try to rub the head, belly and genital area of the mouse on the rat. I don't really know rodent anatomy other than the gross anatomy stuff but i assume rodents have scent glands in their faces and genital areas. Do this pretty liberally. You might not be able to discern a difference between the two, but your snake may. Try to offer the rat (second item) once you've done this. If the snake doesn't take it, try rubbing the mouse on the rat some more (this is called scenting). Try offering it again (make sure it is warm, the item may have cooled off by now).

Hopefully the snake will take it, if not, offer the first prey item first (mouse). Let the snake eat that item. Once it has finished and realigned its jaws offer the second item. Since the snake is in feeding mode, it may take the rodent since it already smells vaguely of its preferred type.

If this doesn't work, try it again at the next feeding. If you have to skip a feeding session to try to switch your snake it is ok. These snakes eat much more often in captivity than they do in the wild. Baby snakes can go with skipping a meal every once in a while. Until your snake switches, keep scenting the rodent by rubbing it with the other prey type.

With older, more established animals, skipping a few feeding sessions may be in order. Be aware that there are some snakes that will never switch. They would rather starve than eat prey type two.

Adult Animals
Sexually mature ball pythons (both males and females) usually go off feed during breeding season. These animals have enough energy stored so they can safely not eat for months. Personally, I have had a snake go off food for 5 months, be picky for another 2, then eat with gusto. Over this time, this 1100 gram snake lost maybe 100 grams. This is within the acceptable range. Don't fret if your 2,3 or 20 year old BP stops eating around November (in the northern hemisphere). Offer food a few times a month and when they are ready they will begin eating again.

Starting Babies
So, you just got your first ball python, its a cute little baby that weighs about 60 grams. Its head might be a little funny shaped because its thin, and it has a triangle look to its body where its spine is a little more apparent than it should be. You offer it a F/T rat, and when it dosen't take it, you worry.

It is possible to get an unstarted baby without realizing it. Most responsible breeders will make sure their babies have fed at least 2 times before selling them, but not every breeder or pet store is like this.

Let your baby settle in for 7 days with no handling except for cage maintenance (cleaning or weighing). After this 7 day period, I suggest offering a live hopper or small adult mouse. Remove any cage furniture that the rodent can hide in like vines or the second hide. Prescent the room by leaving the rodent in a secure container with a few air holes in it so your snake can smell it.

Introduce the rodent into the side of the enclosure OPPOSITE from the one your snake is on. Your snake will most likely be in its hide. The snake should get interested in the prey item but it will be unsure of itself. The process of striking, coiling and eating may take an hour or more for the snake to really figure it out. Just trust your snake. They are little predators and instinctively should know what to do. Dont leave your snake unattended with a live rodent. I keep a pair of hemostats handy just to keep a bitey rodent from snacking on my snake.

I would offer a live prey item to the snake at the next feeding. Then, at the third feeding, if you want to try switching your snake to F/T you can try it.

Pre scent (! ) youre prey item, make sure it is dry and offer it to your snake off of hemostats. Hold the prey item with the hemostats near the scruff or the shoulder blades. If your snake takes it off the hemostats, congrats! If not, try doing the zombie dance. The zombie dance is moving the rodent in natural ways simulating life so that your snake thinks the prey is alive. Move the rodent slowly, and dont harass the snake with it (ie, don't bump your snake in the nose or body with the rodent). If your snake is in feeding mode you'll be able to tell. (Intent stare, flickering tongue, "s" curve in the neck). If they are in feeding mode, you will probably elicit a feeding strike. If your snake strikes and constricts, give the tail of the rodent a few tugs to simulate struggling. This will further ingrain the feeding response and help to curb any spitting out of the rodent.

Once your snake strikes and constricts, leave it alone in a dim room. Keep an eye on it but don't pester it much. If you bother your snake too much it may spit out the prey item.

I'll be adding to this thread as i figure out more information. Hopefully this will shed some light on helping these sometimes stubborn snakes eat.

you said you left her alone, and that is great. I have a feeling that stress and lack of "safety" was a major factor in your snake not eating.

Have you made the changes to your setup that were recommended to you ?? It is VITAL that the husbandry is on track, esp. heat, humidity and hides.

Your heating is completely inadequate, since you have no idea what the actual temperatures are. The dial thermometers are USELESS. As long as your room temperature isn't extremely cool or warm, you have to worry more about the belly heat of the enclosure, rather then the ambient temps. Get rid of the heat lamps, all they do is dry out the air, which is why you have a snake that has a bad shed now...

Get yourself a digital thermometer with a probe. You can find them under or around $10 , so its not a huge expense. They sell them everywhere, Walmart is a good place. Put the probe on the floor where your warm side is and measure the EXACT temps. Adjust them to be in the right level (90 to 95 or so)

Now, you need more hides. They need to be small hides that the snake just fits in. If you don't want to spend a lot, get little cartons, cut cereal boxes, whatever it takes to have SMALL hides and several of them.

One hide being half on the warm, half on the cool side sounds useless and way to big. Not much help in thermoregulating either...
You can worry about making your setup "pretty" later, once the snake is an established eater and has relaxed a lot.

Fill the empty space in between hides with some clutter, balled up newspaper works great. Your snake doesn't feel safe. While that is going on , it won't eat.

The cycle started with handling her to much in the beginning, to many feeding attempts and trying to feed in another container. Hence, the snake was constantly stressed and never really felt safe in her enclosure either. The temps might be off as well, which is another factor.

Just leaving her/him alone is only part of it.

Black out the sides, back and most of the top of the cage. Cover most of the top with foil, then a dark towel, so you keep the humidity in better. Add all those hides. Fix your heat. Ditch the bright (and night) lights.

THEN leave her alone for another week to week and a half. After that wait till the evening, making sure its mostly dark and quiet around and attempt to feed. Best time is when the snake has "claimed" a favorite hide and is in it. Wiggle the (either live or f/t) rodent in front of the hide. If that don't work, leave it right in front of the hide. I bet you, if you just put in that extra effort, time and expense (and its not that much) to fix your setup, your snake will start eating once its relaxed.

If stress and lack of safety is causing your snake not to eat, going to the vet or assist feeding will only add to the stress. Of course, if your snake gets to be really bad, assist feeding is then a life saving procedure. But that will only work IF you take care of all the other issues, anyhow.

Sorry for the long winded post. Hope it helps some...

i like to blow dry the mouse on its head. my snake seems to be very interested by that point and peeks her head out and starts looking for the mouse(i assume the smell gets carried over to her home)...but now anytime i blow dry my hair she thinks shes getting food lol:rolleyes:

my baby (picked up about two weeks ago now) was known to have not eaten/been picky before i got her. they feed F/T at the store i got her from. i took her home, offered a F/T, no dice. went and got a live fuzzy from my feeder store, they give 'em in a brown paper bag. i feed in a separate enclosure, she has a tank to live and a tub, aka the "thunderdome" for epic feeding battles. well, i put her in the thunderdome, and put the fuzzy in there, in front of her face, but a ways away. no taking. so i put the fuzzy back in the bag and set the bag in the tub. the fuzzy started crawling around inside the bag, making scratching noises as it went. abigail became very curious, looking around very intently. i tipped the bag over, and eventually she went into the bag and took the fuzzy. turns out she was just shy. i tried that again 5 days later, and she made a B-line for the bag. hopefully a few more feedings she won't be shy anymore. once she takes the fuzzy, i pull the bag away. eventually hoping to just tip the bag over and have the fuzzy in the mouth of the bag and work it out of the bag altogether.

i finally gave in and fed her live and it took all of 5 seconds for her to eat. I even took her out and fed her in a separate enclosure (i didnt want the mouse running loose in her cage if she decided not to eat). I also added a new hide for her so she has one on each side.

Very nice, glad she finally ate for you

Congrats!

Let her eat live for the next 4 or 5 feedings... only once a week. Then you can try offering her a F/T again... I find a well-warmed (not micro-waved) F/T mouse put right at the entrance to the hide they are in makes them eat almost every time.

ALSO, if you are still using a heat lamp (which by now I hope you aren't) ... heat lamps confuse ball pythons. Balls find their prey via heat. If there is radiant heat coming down from the lamp above them they can't find the warmed f/t mouse at all. Mine sometimes even strike at the heat lamp that I use to thaw their rats ACROSS THE ROOM from their cages. Like 5 feet away.

Glad the baby ate for you. I have fed frozen and live to my collection of 10 balls and am now just feeding live. I have not had any issues with eating with live(other than when they are in shed, some wont take which is normal). None of my balls have been attacked by the food source. I do understand why F/t is a good option for some people, but I prefer live. I bought a lemonblast that I was told was a picky eater in late 2009 (79 grmas) and he has never refused live for me and is now over 1000 grams.