So got a call from a pet store....

The guy just opened up his own pet shop in a small town not terribly far from me. He ordered 9 babies from a distributor in CA, I never heard of them, so I forgot their name by the time I tried to look them up. He said he purchased a bunch of reptiles and supplies from them, 6k worth! But those BP babies are dying left and right. He's had them less than 2 weeks and 5 of the 9 have already died. 2 of which he had sold and the people came back to get a refund. I tried asking him questions, but he's not familiar with ball pythons. He doesn't think they looked thin or orange-I told him some people/distributors will dip bps in Iodine. I'm guessing they were imports or maybe domestic and hadn't ate if they are already dying??? His temp is 87 on the hot side and 75 min on the cool side. He keeps his shop at 75 because he breeds hedgehogs and they need higher temps apparently. He's using some sort of slab rocks stacked, or something, so there is room for all the bps to hide in.

I have NO clue what sort of advice to give him! Does anyone else have some ideas? He said two of the four left have eaten, but the other two haven't. I told him to assist feed the two that aren't eating that way if they die at least he tried to do something! I'm thinking they are probably thin and he just doesn't know that a thin bp is bad, not normal. IDK....I've got nothing. I also told him if it were me I would put them in tubs for awhile, but I don't think he was too keen on that idea.

I'm not really looking for advice for him, more for me because it's driving me nuts wondering why they are all dying. My guess is that it's probably already too late for the 4 left.

I am with you on this one. They were probably too young, and had not been fed?
Doesnt help if he doesnt know how to care for them either......:colbert:
I think pics would be worth a thousand words.

Offer to help him for a small fee or say you can do consignment with your normals you hatch out. You help him out he allows you to sell your normals at his shop.

Yeah.... He did admit that he doesn't know what he's doing with them and doesn't plan to ever order bp babies again, and if he did from breeders next time. I don't necessarily think it was his fault since they died so soon. Bp babies are a real pain, I couldn't imagine getting them from a distributor!

That's so sad... My first thought is, they haven't eaten yet, or since he doesn't know how to care for them, he is doing something very wrong. If you get a chance, maybe get a pic of his set ups. I would be very interested to see.

He did offer to buy my norms when I hatch them. So I suppose I got something out of the call!

Thanks Rich :gj:

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Offer to help him for a small fee or say you can do consignment with your normals you hatch out. You help him out he allows you to sell your normals at his shop.

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Great idea........help both of you out at the same time;)

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Originally Posted by SlitherinSisters

He did offer to buy my norms when I hatch them. So I suppose I got something out of the call!
Thanks Rich :gj:

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Good job (pat on your shoulder):handshake

keep talking/working with him .. educate him . = everyone wins..if he listens to you

Jonesy is right,you need to educate the guy. It will benefit you both, in the long run. at any rate,it sound to me like this wholesaler/what ever sold this guy some bad snakes. think about it...no one that cares about these animals would ever sell them prematurely, or sell bad animals. this person was only in it for the money. which is total BS!!!

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Originally Posted by jonesy72

keep talking/working with him .. educate him . = everyone wins..if he listens to you

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You're exactly right about that.... I hope he doesn't get on here and look around, then I'll feel bad, but he kept interrupting me every time I tried to say something. It was so frustrating!

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Originally Posted by Never3

Jonesy is right,you need to educate the guy. It will benefit you both, in the long run. at any rate,it sound to me like this wholesaler/what ever sold this guy some bad snakes. think about it...no one that cares about these animals would ever sell them prematurely, or sell bad animals. this person was only in it for the money. which is total BS!!!

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Yeah, I'm thinking it was a shady distributor. I hate distributors!

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Originally Posted by SlitherinSisters

The guy just opened up his own pet shop in a small town not terribly far from me. He ordered 9 babies from a distributor in CA, I never heard of them, so I forgot their name by the time I tried to look them up. He said he purchased a bunch of reptiles and supplies from them, 6k worth! But those BP babies are dying left and right. He's had them less than 2 weeks and 5 of the 9 have already died. 2 of which he had sold and the people came back to get a refund. I tried asking him questions, but he's not familiar with ball pythons. He doesn't think they looked thin or orange-I told him some people/distributors will dip bps in Iodine. I'm guessing they were imports or maybe domestic and hadn't ate if they are already dying??? His temp is 87 on the hot side and 75 min on the cool side. He keeps his shop at 75 because he breeds hedgehogs and they need higher temps apparently. He's using some sort of slab rocks stacked, or something, so there is room for all the bps to hide in.

I have NO clue what sort of advice to give him! Does anyone else have some ideas? He said two of the four left have eaten, but the other two haven't. I told him to assist feed the two that aren't eating that way if they die at least he tried to do something! I'm thinking they are probably thin and he just doesn't know that a thin bp is bad, not normal. IDK....I've got nothing. I also told him if it were me I would put them in tubs for awhile, but I don't think he was too keen on that idea.

I'm not really looking for advice for him, more for me because it's driving me nuts wondering why they are all dying. My guess is that it's probably already too late for the 4 left.

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Well if all else fails, to the trickery for the feeding offer them small ASF's or if that fails offer them small gerbils. Something anything at this point if this is what seems to be the case of them really needing to eat because they are dieing. :(. My female normal hadn't eaten a thing for nearly 2 months and started looking sickly but a gerbil sparked her and now she's back on regular feedings. Just a thought. :mouse2:

I was just reading an article on the different types of gout in herps. I'm not an expert by all mean but someone had an experience with a very young baby ball dying of this. From what I read gout can be induced by starvation and the. Uric acid building up in there system. Depending on if they were imports or even a shady dealer this could be the reason why all of the babies started dropping. I will try and find it so that this isn't quite so vague.

gout in reptiles
from google.com.

Quote:
In secondary gout, the high level is due to the inability of the kidneys to adequately excrete the uric acid. This can be caused by medications, chronic diseases, kidney disease, starvation, improper diet, decreased water intake or chronic dehydration, and other environmental factors which affect the kidneys' ability to eliminate uric acid.
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With reptiles, environmental factors are most often implicated in gout leading to renal failure, especially chronic dehydration, diet, and suboptimum temperatures for the species


Hopefully this isn't the case but there really is no good reason for that many babies to just up and die like that. That's very sad. Hopefully this helps the owner of the petstore atleast prevent this.

your over thinking this.
its going to be one of two things.
1. either the distributor seen someone new and figured he could dump his garbage on them for a quick profit or
2. this guy who admits he knows nothing is doing something so wrong he is kiling them quickly.

i dont believe you can kill a ball python from shipping it to young. they are hardy animals.
they wont starve to death in 2 weeks unless they had been starved for months before shipping.
maybe this guy is cooking them with over heating. under heating wouldnt kill them that fast, if his shop is 75 then their not "that" cold.
has he used any flea medicine in the shop? flea powder = death quickly
i personally wouldnt give him any advice until you have seen the setups and the animals. hes willing to learn if he called.
i give advice for free to petshops. the person that recommended you charge is wrong. if you are gonna charge then he isnt gonna pay and will continue to lose animals. most mom and pop shops will hook you up if you hook them up. i get EVERYTHING at cost from my local shop for helping them out. i also get wholesale lists forwarded to my email from her as well. all for giving her free advice and giving her deals and guarentees on my offspring.
adam jeffery

Yeah, you should probably see th setup before you give advice, but if he can give you something in exchange like supplies, that would be great! Obviously, you should be happy with the store before you send any snakes there and if you help him, they will have a much better future!

Good luck!

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Originally Posted by SlitherinSisters

The guy just opened up his own pet shop in a small town not terribly far from me. He ordered 9 babies from a distributor in CA, I never heard of them, so I forgot their name by the time I tried to look them up. He said he purchased a bunch of reptiles and supplies from them, 6k worth! But those BP babies are dying left and right. He's had them less than 2 weeks and 5 of the 9 have already died. 2 of which he had sold and the people came back to get a refund. I tried asking him questions, but he's not familiar with ball pythons. He doesn't think they looked thin or orange-I told him some people/distributors will dip bps in Iodine. I'm guessing they were imports or maybe domestic and hadn't ate if they are already dying??? His temp is 87 on the hot side and 75 min on the cool side. He keeps his shop at 75 because he breeds hedgehogs and they need higher temps apparently. He's using some sort of slab rocks stacked, or something, so there is room for all the bps to hide in.

I have NO clue what sort of advice to give him! Does anyone else have some ideas? He said two of the four left have eaten, but the other two haven't. I told him to assist feed the two that aren't eating that way if they die at least he tried to do something! I'm thinking they are probably thin and he just doesn't know that a thin bp is bad, not normal. IDK....I've got nothing. I also told him if it were me I would put them in tubs for awhile, but I don't think he was too keen on that idea.

I'm not really looking for advice for him, more for me because it's driving me nuts wondering why they are all dying. My guess is that it's probably already too late for the 4 left.

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Big Gunns is gonna "tell it like it is". You're looking for "advice"...well BG will give you some.:D

You said that this pet store is "not terribly far". Well Big Gunns "guess" is that it would be best for you to go there and try and save their life. Since it's quite clear that something "terrible" is going to happen unless someone that knows what they're doing helps....Big Gunns "advice" is to try and physically help instead of "guessing" that it's "too late". Big Gunns can save almost any baby ball from death. "Clearly" this guy can't, but Big Gunns "guesses" that you might be able to drive "not terribly far" and save them.:gj:

It's just a thought, but as we all know. Big Gunns has GREAT thoughts.:P:D

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Offer to help him for a small fee or say you can do consignment with your normals you hatch out. You help him out he allows you to sell your normals at his shop.

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Forgot to comment on this. Why do we need to be paid to save a life? Now BG can understand if he continues to do this, and needs your help constantly Slither, but this time BG thinks these LIVE ANIMALS desperately need your help.:gj:

Yeah yeah, BG knows how he sounds here, but come on fans, BG knows you all better than this. We all know what the right thing to do here is.:gj: Big Gunns is just pointing it out.

It's true. If you can help out, do what you can for them. If the guy's got good manners he'll do something in return, especially if you two can save his snakes. If not, then you can ask for favors when he calls you again. Not saying he will, but he may and hopefully he doesn't just jump into selling another animal he doesn't know much about. I personally wouldn't ask for anything, but I don't know how much a pain it is for you to go there and help him out ^^

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Originally Posted by Big Gunns

Big Gunns is gonna "tell it like it is". You're looking for "advice"...well BG will give you some.:D

You said that this pet store is "not terribly far". Well Big Gunns "guess" is that it would be best for you to go there and try and save their life. Since it's quite clear that something "terrible" is going to happen unless someone that knows what they're doing helps....Big Gunns "advice" is to try and physically help instead of "guessing" that it's "too late". Big Gunns can save almost any baby ball from death. "Clearly" this guy can't, but Big Gunns "guesses" that you might be able to drive "not terribly far" and save them.:gj:

It's just a thought, but as we all know. Big Gunns has GREAT thoughts.:P:D

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You caught the "not terribly far" huh? Lol, well it's roughly an hour drive from here, so it's not a trip that I would take just for fun. Yes, I *could* physically go there, but I'm not a pet shop bp fixer-upper. I gave him what advice I could over the phone and if he doesn't want to head it, that's all on him. I gave him all my information and told him he could email me. When I eventually make it there, I will definitely stop in to chat with him and figure out his set up, but I'm not going to make a special trip. You could sell one of your snakes for some plane tickets and head right down there if you think we are responsible for fixing other people's problems in person ;) Oh and I'm sure you know this, but I'm not BG, I can't save every bp. :P And no I would not charge him for my advice.

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Originally Posted by adamjeffery

your over thinking this.
its going to be one of two things.
1. either the distributor seen someone new and figured he could dump his garbage on them for a quick profit or
2. this guy who admits he knows nothing is doing something so wrong he is kiling them quickly.

i dont believe you can kill a ball python from shipping it to young. they are hardy animals.
they wont starve to death in 2 weeks unless they had been starved for months before shipping.
maybe this guy is cooking them with over heating. under heating wouldnt kill them that fast, if his shop is 75 then their not "that" cold.
has he used any flea medicine in the shop? flea powder = death quickly
i personally wouldnt give him any advice until you have seen the setups and the animals. hes willing to learn if he called.
i give advice for free to petshops. the person that recommended you charge is wrong. if you are gonna charge then he isnt gonna pay and will continue to lose animals. most mom and pop shops will hook you up if you hook them up. i get EVERYTHING at cost from my local shop for helping them out. i also get wholesale lists forwarded to my email from her as well. all for giving her free advice and giving her deals and guarentees on my offspring.
adam jeffery

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I'm on the same page. I'm guessing the distributor is pretty shady. From what he told me I don't understand why they would be dying. If his temps are accurate, 87 hot side, and I'm guessing 75-80 cool side, there's no reason they should have died in such a short time unless there was an underlying issue.

I didn't think about cleaners though. Wouldn't most of the other animals be dying though? He has a bunch of other snake species, rodents, frogs, etc.

sounds like either they were none eaters,imports non eaters, or just someone to pawn off the trouble snakes on a new guy. I contact the shop and point out if he willing to cover the gas you come out and help him set up a more proper tank/cage, and a show how to assist/force feed ( if you know how ) the snakes if you deem they may need it. I also give him any vet numbers that deals with reptiles in the area incase he wants to have them checks for parasites,worms and such cause who knows what they could picked up at the breeders or in the store..
I ask the following questions,
what chemicals used around them/in the store
what the bedding used
temps how measured and humidty
how he heating the cages( might be cooking them or freezing if the temp probes set in the wrong places )
I also would see what kind of shop it is incase you don't want to deal with him ( aka the shop a pack warehouse type were can bearly walk and if it clean or just a fly by night deal were he could be gone in 5 months or so.)



I personally don't sell, trade, or adopt out any snake I rescued,hatched or what ever unless it eating and the person has some proper snakes handling xp( I spent 7 hours with one girl that wanted a snake getting her use to handling picking up and such with different snake of mine befoer whe left with the pair she wanted ). I also (when working ) print out the basic info like temps, what safe /not safe to use for bedding( be shocked how often petstores tell people pine safe to use with snakes).
I also will email those that contacted me about questions to the site here and list books they could read to get more info.
I also give them my info and tell them I will take any snake back if it becomes too much for them to care for.

All good points, thank you. It's in a fairly small town, so it might not last terribly long, I can't say I've ever heard of a pet store being in that town. My home town has a pet shop that's only open for a few hours on certain days and it's about the same sized town, maybe a bit larger. I suppose we'll see! I wouldn't have a problem going out there if my gas was paid...I'll have to let him know.

87 is a fine ambient temp, but those babies should be bumped to a 90F hotspot. or up to 94.

Have him contact the distributor, tell them EVERYTHING. Is he cleaning with any solvents. how long has he had them, have they ever fed yet? are they CH or CB? Theres a lot more questions that should be answered before he can be helped. Have you told him about the forum? He may be able to come here himself and describe the situation and get the help he needs here since he's the one that knows all the info.

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Originally Posted by SlitherinSisters

You caught the "not terribly far" huh? Lol, well it's roughly an hour drive from here, so it's not a trip that I would take just for fun. Yes, I *could* physically go there, but I'm not a pet shop bp fixer-upper. I gave him what advice I could over the phone and if he doesn't want to head it, that's all on him. I gave him all my information and told him he could email me. When I eventually make it there, I will definitely stop in to chat with him and figure out his set up, but I'm not going to make a special trip. You could sell one of your snakes for some plane tickets and head right down there if you think we are responsible for fixing other people's problems in person ;) Oh and I'm sure you know this, but I'm not BG, I can't save every bp. :P And no I would not charge him for my advice.

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Well....it's not really "all on him". Something tells BG that more of it is "on" the leeetle Ball Pythons.

You do realize that this is part of your sworn duty as a Ball-Pythons.net Super Moderator. If you didn't, BG just thought he might point that out.:P:D

ps. Obviously you are "not BG". The world only has space for one.:D

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Originally Posted by cinderbird

87 is a fine ambient temp, but those babies should be bumped to a 90F hotspot. or up to 94.

Have him contact the distributor, tell them EVERYTHING. Is he cleaning with any solvents. how long has he had them, have they ever fed yet? are they CH or CB? Theres a lot more questions that should be answered before he can be helped. Have you told him about the forum? He may be able to come here himself and describe the situation and get the help he needs here since he's the one that knows all the info.

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I'm afraid to send him here because I know he'll get ripped apart, considering that I'm not getting the best responses and I have nothing to do with them dying. I tried asking him a lot of questions about them, but he knew nothing about them. I did ask him about the distributor, but he said he was really happy with them because of everything else he bought from them. I'm not sure if he will contact them, he's sort of nonchalant about it. I'm sure people are going to be up in arms about it, but what do you really expect? Not everyone is going to go to the ends of the earth to keep every reptile alive, especially not a store. I'm trying not to say too much because this is a public forum and I really don't want discuss his personal integrity because he could easily find this. There is a reason I said this was mostly just for my own curiosity.

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Originally Posted by Big Gunns

Well....it's not really "all on him". Something tells BG that more of it is "on" the leeetle Ball Pythons.

You do realize that this is part of your sworn duty as a Ball-Pythons.net Super Moderator. If you didn't, BG just thought he might point that out.:P:D

ps. Obviously you are "not BG". The world only has space for one.:D

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You're funny one BG :rolleyes: It is on the BPs unfortunately, but I can't make people take care of their animals properly. If they don't want to take advice, that's their choice. If they are ok with animals dying, then animals are going to die. No one is going to stop him from buying bps again.

I will tell him what I know, give him advice, offer my help, tell him about chemicals, etc etc etc, but the ball is in his court.

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Originally Posted by SlitherinSisters

I'm afraid to send him here because I know he'll get ripped apart, considering that I'm not getting the best responses and I have nothing to do with them dying. I tried asking him a lot of questions about them, but he knew nothing about them. I did ask him about the distributor, but he said he was really happy with them because of everything else he bought from them. I'm not sure if he will contact them, he's sort of nonchalant about it. I'm sure people are going to be up in arms about it, but what do you really expect? Not everyone is going to go to the ends of the earth to keep every reptile alive, especially not a store. I'm trying not to say too much because this is a public forum and I really don't want discuss his personal integrity because he could easily find this. There is a reason I said this was mostly just for my own curiosity.



You're funny one BG :rolleyes: It is on the BPs unfortunately, but I can't make people take care of their animals properly. If they don't want to take advice, that's their choice. If they are ok with animals dying, then animals are going to die. No one is going to stop him from buying bps again.

I will tell him what I know, give him advice, offer my help, tell him about chemicals, etc etc etc, but the ball is in his court.

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All BG can do is :confuzd::confuzd: BG is disappointed.

i took a gerbil got it to pee in a bottle cap and poured on mouse to get it to eat:oops: