hognose vs. ball python?

Im considering getting either a spider ball or a hognose after I get Christmas money ;) I already have a normal female ball python (pandora) so I know a bit about bp's. But I have also seen and handled some hognose snakes and they are pretty cute.... which one do you perfer? (just to hear others opinions)

Thanks, Melissa

BOTH! :banana::banana::banana:

We have both ball pythons and a hognose and they are so different that it's amazing what you can learn from owning both. We're planning on adding one more hognose when we find one we like that is not over a thousand bucks! We want a superconda so bad... but man, we gotta break the bank to own one!

The lively personality of the hognose is a good balance to the "laziness" of the ball python. The strike-and-constrict action of the ball python is an amazing thing to experience as opposed to the chase-and-subdue action of the hognose. We don't see the ball pythons during the day - we see the hognose more - unless he's buried under the substrate. The little keeled body of the hognose is a break from the heavy smooth ball python. They're on different sides of the house - the ball pythons are at 80 room temp all year round which is what I like, the hognose is at 72 and then down to 65 in winter which is what my husband likes.

So yeah, gotta have both.

I know what you mean it seems all the really cool looking hognoses are way more than I can afford! hey what do you know maybe my family will finally fall in love with snakes and quit being afraid of them and then they'll buy me both for a really suprising christmas present!
:D

If you're just collecting pets, why not go for the hognose?

Good Luck!
Jim Smith

Im just not sure because im not really in love with how the normals look and anything else looks really expensive

hognoses look so cool i held one at the last show i went to and it made me want one so bad. right now im trying to decide between a jcp or hognose and im leaning way toward the hognose lol.

personally i wont touch anything venomous with a 10 ft pole if i could help it, lol. i got small kids so, yeah. i know they're only mildly venomous and it poses no risk to us but still it IS venom regardless.
plus the fact that they're rear fanged which means that should they choose to take on your hand they'd have to literally chew on you to get their teeth into you, eeek. no thank you, :colbert:.
for those who have hognoses, please, before you chew me out for this response, let me tell you that in no way, shape or form am i bashing you for owning them, i'm merely just stating my opinions.
"safety 1st" has always been my motto.

(Somewhat) with you there, mommanessy - my GF is the type who's allergic to just about everything, and is deathly afraid of bee stings as a result. Given that, it's pretty likely she'd be one of the people who have a severe reaction to hognose venom. Because of that, she's gone from "oh, they're cute, why don't you want one of them instead of a carpet python," to "*sigh*, I guess they're off the list..."

Since you already have a BP, I'd say go for a hognose!! I have a one year-old hoggie named Charlotte, and she is honestly the coolest snake in my collection - and I currently have 29 snakes altogether. Anatess summarized the differences pretty well, so there's not much more to add... but I will say that Charlotte's SO much more "interactive" than my BPs, who literally spend 98% of their lives sleeping in their hides.

My hognose, on the other hand, actually seems to desire regular handling. We "cuddle" (she curls on/near my lap) for about an hour almost every night... and if I fail to let her out for this daily session, she'll push the tub lid up & down with her nose to get my attention. I don't spend this kind of time with ANY other snake in my collection, which tells me she has a unique & special personality. I love my little snub-nosed girl. :)

As for the venom and rear-fanged issue, I wouldn't know because she's never tried to bite me! While hognoses can have their pissy moods (even mine), and love to hiss for no reason in particular, they really don't bite very often... and if they do, it's typically a closed-mouth bluff. Even at feeding time mine's never tried to bite me, and FYI it's super cool to watch them eat - totally different from the BP's strike & coil process. They are great little snakes, and I'd recommend them to nearly anyone who's interested.

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Originally Posted by melrappmel

I know what you mean it seems all the really cool looking hognoses are way more than I can afford! hey what do you know maybe my family will finally fall in love with snakes and quit being afraid of them and then they'll buy me both for a really suprising christmas present!
:D

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That would be a nice surprise! :)

The hognose morphs are expensive, yes, since it's a fairly new thing in the snake world (I think). But IMO the "normals" are just as nice looking, and do come in a variety of shades... here's a comparison between mine & one I saw at a pet shop, both considered wild-type hognoses. Btw, I only paid $75 + shipping for my girl. :gj:

My snake:
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...4/P1040438.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...4/P1040446.jpg

The one at a pet shop:
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p...iPhone0022.jpg

ok so Im a tiny bit worried about the venom thing because though Im not allergic to bee stings I do react sometimes by swelling up......so is it very likely that the venom will be a big issue??

Thanks, Melissa

Not an issue. A hognose's venom is secreted through its rear-fangs. IF he bites (which is so rare it's almost never) - he will first hold on with his front teeth. Then he will chew his way "into" your finger until it reaches his rear fangs and then it will secrete the venom... If by that time you haven't done something to remove your finger out of its mouth, then yeah, you WANTED to get that venom in you.

There's a post here of somebody who got bit by his hognose - he let the hognose chew on him for... I think he said 3 minutes... He could have removed his finger out of the hognose's mouth within the first 5 seconds, but he chose not to just to see what would happen.

When a hognose eats - he doesn't strike from afar like a ball python. He chases his food down first and then corners it, sometimes putting its body on top of the food to pin him down, then he bites into the food and starts chewing. So, even if the hognose mistakes your hand for food, you will have some time to react before he gets you.

Now, here's my first day with a hognose. I am snake phobic (yes, until today amazingly). My son got his hognose for Christmas 2 years ago. We put it in a box and wrapped it with wrapping paper and put him under the tree - to the very back. When we started opening the presents, the snake was hissing sooo loudly my son was jumping up and down with joy throwing presents left and right looking for the hognose. He opened the box and the thing was hissing like crazy, standing up like a cobra, super stressed out (yeah, I admit now it wasn't the greatest idea putting him under the tree)... I was so scared but my husband insists it's all fine. My son has been handling the hognose at the pet store so he is familiar with it. He just went and picked up the snake hissing and all! The snake bumped his nose at my son which startled my son a bit but didn't stop him from grabbing the snake anyway (by this time I was about to have a heart attack). But then he immediately calmed down the moment he got lifted up and he was chilling the rest of the time.

So yeah, that's why I like that guy - after that initial fear, I completely understood what he was about. I thoroughly enjoyed just observing his reactions to my sons' handling, the way he eats, the way he moves (he can slither pretty fast). He was very hissy the first few weeks - sometimes he sounds like a rattlesnake, even shaking his tail a bit striking with his snout - but then after a while he calmed down and now - 2 years later - he rarely hisses (and only when he's startled) and is quite the show-and-tell veteran. His first "show" was with a bunch of 7 year olds. They were passing him around. He was popular with the kids because he was small. So yeah, one of my sons got bit by one of the ball pythons. But no such thing for the hognose yet.

ok so one last question Ive heard of hognose bumping you with their noses.....is it like they act like their going to bite you and dont open their mouths so you just feel their nose bump you?

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Originally Posted by olstyn

(Somewhat) with you there, mommanessy - my GF is the type who's allergic to just about everything, and is deathly afraid of bee stings as a result. Given that, it's pretty likely she'd be one of the people who have a severe reaction to hognose venom. Because of that, she's gone from "oh, they're cute, why don't you want one of them instead of a carpet python," to "*sigh*, I guess they're off the list..."

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This ongoing fallacy about allergies and snake venom persists despite the fact that it's been rebutted just about everywhere. Snake venom allergies take place when people are exposed to (1) either repeated bites (2) repeated doses of antivenin or (3) frequent inhalation of dried venom .

Having an allergy to peanut butter, bee stings or silk underwear is in no way a predictor of a reaction to snake venom.

The swelling, pain and discoloration some people get when bitten by hognoses is a by-product of the venom - not an allergy.

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Originally Posted by melrappmel

ok so one last question Ive heard of hognose bumping you with their noses.....is it like they act like their going to bite you and dont open their mouths so you just feel their nose bump you?

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Yes. It is called false striking, and I've had it happen to me. I feel 100% confident my hoggie will never bite me out of defense.

ok thanks :D

I have both, they are different types of snakes but both are fun. Ide get the hog if your just looking for another pet snake.

That is so funny!! I have a BP named Pandora and a western hognose (Rudy). I would say get the hognose for some variety. I love mine.

ball python for the simple fact how they get Thicker! its eaiser not to loose them! haha

isn't hognose venom like....nothing unless you are allergic to bee stings?

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Originally Posted by dembonez

isn't hognose venom like....nothing unless you are allergic to bee stings?

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No.

You get envenomated, you get a reaction. The reaction is to the venom, not any of this "allergy" BS. People who don't have a reaction to a hognose bite (1) weren't envenomated or (2) were able to get the animal loose before it chewed any venom into them.

It has nothing to do with bee stings, food allergies, etc. That's all forum/internet bull crap. Allergies to snake venom are extremely rare, even to people who are consistenly exposed to them.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

No.

You get envenomated, you get a reaction. The reaction is to the venom, not any of this "allergy" BS. People who don't have a reaction to a hognose bite (1) weren't envenomated or (2) were able to get the animal loose before it chewed any venom into them.

It has nothing to do with bee stings, food allergies, etc. That's all forum/internet bull crap. Allergies to snake venom are extremely rare, even to people who are consistenly exposed to them.

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This is not completely true. A person's reaction to the mild toxicity of hognose venom is dependent on the person's anaphylactic sensitivity to the venom... in other words, allergy.

This is just like a bee sting. People have varying reactions to bee stings depending on their anaphylactic sensitivity to Hymenoptera stings. Those who don't have this type of allergy usually experience just the normal ouch and some itching or mild swelling probably if bit multiple times. Some people with the allergy stops breathing from shock.

But you are correct in that just because you are allergic to peanut butter doesn't mean you are allergic to bee stings, and that just because you are allergic to bee stings doesn't mean you are allergic to hognose venom. Allergies are specific to "type". So that if you are allergic to bee stings you are also allergic to wasp and fire ant stings because they are all Hymenoptera stings.

My sister, for example, is extremely allergic to shellfish, penicillin, and Hymenoptera bites. But she is not allergic to Fel d 1 or any of the cat allegens nor peanut butter nor milk. My son is mildly allergic to dust, peanut butter, milk and Hymenoptera stings but he has no allergies to shellfish nor penicillin... But he is extremely allergic to Fel d 1 in cats. I am allergic to dust and pollen and nothing else.

A lot of times though, a person who has allergies usually have allergies in multiple types, so that when you have an allergic reaction to something, it would benefit you to get tested for any other type of allergy. But, like you said, snake venom allergy is rare therefore, I don't know of a place that tests for that allergy - I've tried looking.

Hope this helps.

My understanding is that there's not a single instance of anybody going into anaphylactic shock from hognose venom - but that can be because hognose bites are extremely rare, not necessarily that nobody is that extremely allergic to it.

Here's more info on hognose venom: http://www.hognose.com/pages/venomous.htm

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Originally Posted by anatess

This is not completely true. A person's reaction to the mild toxicity of hognose venom is dependent on the person's anaphylactic sensitivity to the venom... in other words, allergy.

This is just like a bee sting. People have varying reactions to bee stings depending on their anaphylactic sensitivity to Hymenoptera stings. Those who don't have this type of allergy usually experience just the normal ouch and some itching or mild swelling probably if bit multiple times. Some people with the allergy stops breathing from shock.

But you are correct in that just because you are allergic to peanut butter doesn't mean you are allergic to bee stings, and that just because you are allergic to bee stings doesn't mean you are allergic to hognose venom. Allergies are specific to "type". So that if you are allergic to bee stings you are also allergic to wasp and fire ant stings because they are all Hymenoptera stings.

My sister, for example, is extremely allergic to shellfish, penicillin, and Hymenoptera bites. But she is not allergic to Fel d 1 or any of the cat allegens nor peanut butter nor milk. My son is mildly allergic to dust, peanut butter, milk and Hymenoptera stings but he has no allergies to shellfish nor penicillin... But he is extremely allergic to Fel d 1 in cats. I am allergic to dust and pollen and nothing else.

A lot of times though, a person who has allergies usually have allergies in multiple types, so that when you have an allergic reaction to something, it would benefit you to get tested for any other type of allergy. But, like you said, snake venom allergy is rare therefore, I don't know of a place that tests for that allergy - I've tried looking.

Hope this helps.

My understanding is that there's not a single instance of anybody going into anaphylactic shock from hognose venom - but that can be because hognose bites are extremely rare, not necessarily that nobody is that extremely allergic to it.

Here's more info on hognose venom: http://www.hognose.com/pages/venomous.htm

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Wrong.

Reactions to hognose venom are symptoms of the venom. There are numerous recorded reactions that has nothing to do with allergies.

Brian Fry has already covered this in enough depth that any arguments to the contrary are pretty much moot.

http://www.venomdoc.com/forums/viewt...hlight=hognose

so in short what happens if you get bit and don't go to the doctor

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Originally Posted by dembonez

so in short what happens if you get bit and don't go to the doctor

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Nothing.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

Nothing.

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lol okay thanks!

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Originally Posted by Mallory

That is so funny!! I have a BP named Pandora and a western hognose (Rudy).

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You know what's also funny? I have a dog named Rudy, and used to have a cat named Pandora... I'm serious. :)

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Originally Posted by dembonez

ball python for the simple fact how they get Thicker! its eaiser not to loose them! haha

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Pretty hard to lose a hognose too, especially if you have 4-legged pets in the house... one time my hog escaped (the tub broke), and I didn't even know until I heard a HISSSSSS throughout the house. It was so loud, I actually thought it was a broken appliance at first - nope, it was just Charlotte hissing at my cat, who was standing over her in the bedroom. A ball python might be easier to see, but I guarantee you'll HEAR a hognose first. :D

I know this is off track from the op's question, but I never knew hognose snakes were popular until recently. When I was a kid, we weren't allowed to have dogs/cats, etc. So we would go down to the lake/woods and catch snakes. We'd bring them home, play with them for a while and then take them back. One snake we caught a lot were hognoses (in South Jersey).

We thought it was cool the way they would hiss, rattle their tails, roll over and play dead, and I think they would even secrete a musk...if I remember correctly. We never got bit, and we had no idea they were even mildly venomous.

Neat to see that they are becoming popular.