Assist Feed

Well,

Our ball (Jambi) did not want to eat again, for his 3rd week without food, so we tried assist feeding him. After a few tried, he managed to get it down and everything seems okay.

I was reading that after assist feeding we should not handle him for one week, once next wed comes, should we assist feed again if he will not eat?

I would only assist feed every 2 weeks. Offer him a meal after a week and if he don't take offer in another week, then consider assissting again.

I am assuming he is a hatchling ball python. I wouldn't force the issue too much. I had a ball python that was on deaths door, i assist fed her every 2 days, but it only took 2 attempts. Then she would eat a pre killed mouse pinkie left in the tub, then fuzzies, then hoppers. Now she eats live ones within seconds of getting in the cage.

Now if your snake isn't in as bad of shape as mine was (which I'm sure it's not), then go ahead and wait a week before you feed. My girl was to the point where she was almost skin and bones and her cage mate already died of starvation. Now she has gone from 25 grams to 115 grams in a little over 2 months and is my best eater now!

Okay, thank you for the advice. He (or maybe she, as we noticed through assist feeding it's head is rather large) was not quite skin and bones, but we did notice it was moving rather slowly when it went to drink, (slower than usual) but yeah it is a hatchling. So very small in width and everything, but surprisingly long. I get a feeling it's gonna be a big one. It is our first bp, and in some aspects I guess we were a little impatient. But we just wanted to make sure everything was okay.

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Originally Posted by steveboos

I am assuming he is a hatchling ball python. I wouldn't force the issue too much. I had a ball python that was on deaths door, i assist fed her every 2 days, but it only took 2 attempts. Then she would eat a pre killed mouse pinkie left in the tub, then fuzzies, then hoppers. Now she eats live ones within seconds of getting in the cage.

Now if your snake isn't in as bad of shape as mine was (which I'm sure it's not), then go ahead and wait a week before you feed. My girl was to the point where she was almost skin and bones and her cage mate already died of starvation. Now she has gone from 25 grams to 115 grams in a little over 2 months and is my best eater now!

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Huh?

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Originally Posted by DarrinLowe

Okay, thank you for the advice. He (or maybe she, as we noticed through assist feeding it's head is rather large) was not quite skin and bones, but we did notice it was moving rather slowly when it went to drink, (slower than usual) but yeah it is a hatchling. So very small in width and everything, but surprisingly long. I get a feeling it's gonna be a big one. It is our first bp, and in some aspects I guess we were a little impatient. But we just wanted to make sure everything was okay.

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Have you talked to the breeder of this snake to find out how they were housing it before they sold it to you?

Also, I'd recommend checking out our caresheet which has a section on "Why won't my snake eat" so that you can eliminate reasons why it's not eating for you.

Something as simple as moving it to a separate feed box can make it not eat, or a cage too large without proper temps can cause it not to eat as well.

Our focus for the last week has been maintaining optimal conditions in the cage.
We have a thermostat on the warm side that has it between 87-90 F, and the cold side is just below 80. We spray as often as we can, to keep the humidity up it goes between 40 and 55. I've never seen it any higher.

In terms of feeding, we attempted to feed him in the cage for about an hour, and there was no luck, (last week we left one in for 24 hours) we then tried to feed him in our feeding bin for 30 minutes, and no luck once again.

After that we thought it might be appropiate to try assist feeding, we were as gentle as we could be and made sure that we did not do anything that would hurt him. We gave him some time in his feeding box and and when we came back it was down.

A snake in the condition you are describing will die from stress quicker than starvation. Give it some time before assisting again and in the in between time leave it alone. Please describe your setup, sie tub, hides, etc. That may be part of your problem too.

He is in a screen top 10 gallon, the top is lined with triple-layered tin foil, with one inch open on each end, and a circular hole in the middle that is filled with our heat lamp.

We use aspen bedding, with a UTH on his warm side, that has one hide ontop of it. There is a water dish in the middle(directly under the infrared heatlamp), and a second hide on the cool side.

We have a digital thermometer and a thermostat (for the heatlamp, but not the UTH) inside the heated cave, set at 90 F, along with an open air thermometer / hygrometer on the cool side.

Every morning, afternoon, and evening we spray to maintain a 50% humidity.
Water is monitored frequently, and we are not handling beyond when we fed him yesterday.

I do not have a scale yet, so I cannot record the weight, but I will be investing in one after my paycheck comes off hold.

Edit:
His water tub is fairly small, I would say the part that actually holds the water is maybe 5"x3.5" and 1" deep.

OK...this will probably not make any sense to you but I would suggest trying one more thing. First cover 3 sides with dark paper of some type, second, stand in front of the tank and start balling up newspaper in your hands. Ball it up in loose balls and put them in the tank. Fill the tank about 1/3 way to the top with this paper, do make sure none get in the water bowl. This will add a lot of security for your animal and eliminate a lot of stress. Less stress will give you a lot better chance of him eating. After about a week drop an appropriate sized live mouse in with him, with the paper still in the tank. Leave it for a couple hours checking on the snake through the front glass every 30 minutes or so. If he does not eat then assist again. Try offering live food each time before assisting.

I was suggesting we do that with the 3 sides to my girlfriend earlier, but we did not have any dark paper to use. I will try to get some.

I have never heard of that news paper thing being done before, but as it appears you are a breeder I will attempt that.

Wouldnt the removal of that paper after he becomes comfortable just cause further stress, as it is changing his environment.

Well it will confuse him for a second, but as long as you have tight fitting hides and the space is not wide open in the tank, he will still feel secure and will continue to eat.

Basically your trying to get him comfortable enough to eat on his own consistently. When i rescued my girl from PetSmart, i put her in a 12 quart tub with a 4 inch diameter cereal bowl and a large water dish. I left her alone for 1 week, only going into the room to make sure the Ranco was working and nothing was out of the ordinary.

I never turned any lights on and kept it as dark as I could, she felt very secure being that there weren't a bunch of people walking around the tank and she could just relax. Then i assist fed twice and she had no problems.

Then i tried to just leave a pre killed rodent in the tank with all the lights off and left her alone for about an hour. I came back and she ate...every time for over 2 weeks. Then i started to offer her live rat pinkies, then live rat pups.

I know i posted this before, but your going to follow a similar path i feel and this worked very well for me. If you have a closet or another more secluded room you can stick him in where they is little to no traffic, that would be ideal.

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Originally Posted by Jeremy78

Huh?

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Sorry i should have elaborated. She was rescued from PetSmart where her and her other cagemate were not eating. They were separated and taken to the vet to get help either assist feeding or force feeding. They took to assist feeding for about 5 times over a few weeks, but then the vet gave up and it was left up to petsmart pet care assosiates to try and get them eating.

I personally was not allowed to assist feed or change their enclosures, so we just had to wait for corporate to approve adopting them out. Eventually, the other ball python died and was skin and bones, he would never eat. I finally convinced PetSmart to adopt the last surviving one out, so later that week I took "him" home. "He" turned out to be a "She" and she is growing faster than any other snake i have owned.

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Originally Posted by DarrinLowe

I was suggesting we do that with the 3 sides to my girlfriend earlier, but we did not have any dark paper to use. I will try to get some.

I have never heard of that news paper thing being done before, but as it appears you are a breeder I will attempt that.

Wouldnt the removal of that paper after he becomes comfortable just cause further stress, as it is changing his environment.

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The newspaper trick is a Kevin McCurley (NERD) trick that many of us share with new keepers. We share it because it works.

You slowly wean your snake off the paper by removing a piece or two every few days.

Hmm, well I wont be in there today and we are going out of town tomorrow, so I prob wont get the chance to do this until Sunday, but come sunday I will try your suggestions, and take a picture of the setup. right now both the hides are facing out towards the front, they do fit fairly well. The only really "open" space is between the two hides in the front. Both hides and the water dish are against the back.

Steve hit on a good point there...move the tank to a room that has very little traffic. The paper trick has helped tons of people help get animals eating, like I said it just boost security. In the wild in Africa this same snake would spend it's days in a hole in the ground that he could barely fit in. After the snake has started eating regularly and it in better health removing the paper wont be a great deal. You wont be taking the paper out next week...you may need to leave it for a year, changing it of course when you clean the tank.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

The newspaper trick is a Kevin McCurley (NERD) trick that many of us share with new keepers. We share it because it works.

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I am definately not taking credit for the paper trick. I learned this from the breeder that took me under his wing when I first got started...he probably learned it from Kevin. I wouldn't be scared to say that 90% of the advice we share on here came from Kevin!!! :bow::bow::bow: I have saw the paper trick work though, first hand several times. I do leave the paper in a bit longer than I was taught...no need rushing things.

Okay, well then we will do this as soon as we can. There isnt really many places without much traffic in her house though, so that could be problematic. We will try to find something to make it work.

What about cleaning up fecal matter and stuff, should I only do that when I clean the cage, or should I take out pieces to look around?

If so, how often?

You can spot clean the cage once a week and do a good cleaning once a month. Go in as little as possible.

One last question, before we do this (I did end up at her house today, so we will not have to wait til sunday)

Do we still spray the cage regularly?
Also is it necessary to feed him live with this method? We are very hesitant with this aspect.

I understand you guys are breeders, and at that you are very knowledgeable, it is just a very strong personal preference that we feed f/t mice.

Most pet stores I encounter only sell frozen mice as it is.

I really feel your best chance to get him started eating is with live. I am not saying stay with live but I don't think there is a zombie rat dance out there that can truly replicate the instictual urge for a snake to strike live prey.

Having said that as soon as you get him eating well you can attempt the switch to F/T.

feed him live, once he shows a good feeding response after a few feedings, you then can try to switch to f/t. also when you was describing your setup, did you say that the uth wasn't on a thermostat? this needs to be corrected

Well, our infrared lamp is on a thermostat because we needed to increase the temperatures outside of his cave, but we did not want to cook him. The thermostat brings the temperature in his cave up to 90, then turns off. Wouldnt putting the UTH on it just cause the temperature to fluctuate more?

the uth needs to be on a thermostat by itself. if you burn your snake, it will really go off feed. and at this point, might not recover. if the uth feels warm to you, it's hot to your snake.

and if that heated cave is anything like a hot rock, get rid of it.

Its not a hot rock, im just referring to it as the cave on the hot side of the cage.

We have a thermometer in the cave which is half in the substrate, and the temperature has never gone above what the thermostat is set at.