Quick genetics question.

Im soaking in all the genetic and breeding information i can but i have one door i still dont know whats behind its, help me.


What would happen if you bred a co dom snake to a dom snake? how would the off spring come out? Would the dominate gene take control or would they make the snake look different, i know thats its a simple asnwer but im stuck.

like the spider and paselt make bumble bee its co dom and dom right? so are they the designer bases?

If snake breeding is like mixing colours the the dominate genes are like black its just pushes out other colours? and the co's are actual colours. or am i all worng.

idk what you said about colors... but

dom x co-dom
co-dom x co-dom

it would basically do the same in any mix up. before somone corrects me,
im just saying

im a simple minded person that trys not to think so hard.

so dom and co-dom its easier to just think, they mix well.

with just a little less chance of normals.

ok that helps alot becuase i think way to much lol. So really any snake thats co dom or dom will make make a new moprh when bred with any other co dom or dom its jsut recessive that are hard to mix in? because of the het thing right.

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Originally Posted by Akren_905

ok that helps alot becuase i think way to much lol. So really any snake thats co dom or dom will make make a new moprh when bred with any other co dom or dom its jsut recessive that are hard to mix in? because of the het thing right.

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The odds of making a visual morph in the first generation with a co-dom/dom or whatever mix of the two are much higher (as opposed to producing a normal, or one that looks like only one of the parents).

With recessives it's a bit longer, because unless both parents carry at least one of the recessive genes then you will get hets and normals that will look the same otherwise and you'll have to go for another generation to prove them.

what leexielightning said!

i'd go with co-dom/dom as first time breeding projects. that way your more likley to get what your hoping for.

i could be corrected but in the stuff your talking about co dom and dom act the same, same percentages and all that, the basic differant from my understanding is that with the doms there is no "super" form, meaning that its a gene that 1 animal cant get a double dose

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Originally Posted by Hilltop

i could be corrected but in the stuff your talking about co dom and dom act the same, same percentages and all that, the basic differant from my understanding is that with the doms there is no "super" form, meaning that its a gene that 1 animal cant get a double dose

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That's basically it. With a dominant trait, even if the animal gets one gene from each parent and happens to get the mutated trait of both, it will still look the same as if it just had one "copy".

It's important to remember that the terms "dominant" and "co-dominant" refer to the way a mutant gene interacts with the wild-type ("normal") gene, in the way that we use the terms. It doesn't tell you anything about the way two different mutant genes will interact with one another.

That doesn't mean that one mutant gene couldn't totally "mask" another mutant gene -- for example, I would hazard to guess that most mutations will be totally "masked" by the homozygous lesser mutation (solid white snake). (Don't know for sure, but I'd bet they will.) I think it's actually kind of amazing, in a way, that the various ball python mutations seem to have all the cool interactions that they do ...

That what i thought, but that sucks bum no super spiders lol. Buta super form make all spiders if it was super and bred to a normal is what ive read but it was an old book.

In my understanding your old book is correct. A "super" or homozygous Spider would produce all spiders if bred to a normal and would pass its spider trait to all of its offspring regardless of what other morph it's bred to.

A-yup. If the spider gene is truly dominant, it will have a "super" (homozygous) form that will only throw spiders, but can't be visually distinguished from the regular heterozygous spider.

The other speculation is that it's homozygous lethal, and the homozygous ("super") spiders don't survive.

... And I bet if you do a forum search of the terms "spider homozygous lethal" you will get a few dozen threads on the topic :rofl: but it's never been proven one way or the other.

The snake world genetics are dumbed down ALOT so people can understand, so to break it down and make it easier:

"Dominant" = A snake that has no super form when bred to the same dominant animal

"Co-Dom" = A snake with a super form when bred back to the same Co-Dom snake

"Recessive" = Is the same as a co-dom animal (punnett square wise) but instead of being visual when it is "het" ,or carries 1/2 the needed genes for the animal to show visual, it is normal in coloration but still carries the gene.

List of animals that are in each category:
http://www.ballpython.ca/genetics.html

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Originally Posted by Serpent_Nirvana

A-yup. If the spider gene is truly dominant, it will have a "super" (homozygous) form that will only throw spiders, but can't be visually distinguished from the regular heterozygous spider.

The other speculation is that it's homozygous lethal, and the homozygous ("super") spiders don't survive.

... And I bet if you do a forum search of the terms "spider homozygous lethal" you will get a few dozen threads on the topic :rofl: but it's never been proven one way or the other.

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But there was one thread where BHB thinks there spider is Homozygous, seeing no matter what it always throws spiders. Could be damn good luck or it could be genetic.

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Originally Posted by MitsuMike

But there was one thread where BHB thinks there spider is Homozygous, seeing no matter what it always throws spiders. Could be damn good luck or it could be genetic.

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Pinstripe not spider

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

Pinstripe not spider

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I know they imported the pin, but I thought it was them (maybe not) that have a spider that always throws spiders. It was the debate that the homo spider was not viable. It might have been NERD, idk.

wonder if you can tell a super spider form the amount of wobble.. lol..

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Originally Posted by MitsuMike

I know they imported the pin, but I thought it was them (maybe not) that have a spider that always throws spiders. It was the debate that the homo spider was not viable. It might have been NERD, idk.

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BHB has a super pin, the super spider , which NERD imported, does not exist or if it does it is not publicly announced. there are 21930485 threads on this, search "homozygous spider" and you can read for hours about all of it.

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Originally Posted by MitsuMike

I know they imported the pin, but I thought it was them (maybe not) that have a spider that always throws spiders. It was the debate that the homo spider was not viable. It might have been NERD, idk.

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No one has a spider that always throws spiders (at least not the "big boys"). I asked Kevin about this specifically back in October when I was up there visiting. He is the originator of the spider and he does not believe that there is such a thing as a super form of the spider, nor does he believe that super spider is lethal. He just believes it simply doesn't exist, nor will it ever exist. We would have seen it by now.

Brian believes he has a homozygous (super) pinstripe that has thrown all pins over many clutches. It looks no different than other pinstripes.

Man I am getting a headache!!! Glad I still have a year to soak all this in:O:tears:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

No one has a spider that always throws spiders (at least not the "big boys"). I asked Kevin about this specifically back in October when I was up there visiting. He is the originator of the spider and he does not believe that there is such a thing as a super form of the spider, nor does he believe that super spider is lethal. He just believes it simply doesn't exist, nor will it ever exist. We would have seen it by now.

Brian believes he has a homozygous (super) pinstripe that has thrown all pins over many clutches. It looks no different than other pinstripes.

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Dang I could have sworn it was a super spider. I guess I'm just going crazy.:rolleye2:
As for the statement that the super spider will never exist, that is pretty much genetically impossible. At some point a homo spider exist. Weather it be a dead baby in an egg, a baby that didn't fully develop and molded,a baby who died soon after birth, or an animal in a collection somewhere. The animal has to exist, now proving it to exist is a different story. But without faith, wishes or dreams, what do we have?

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Originally Posted by MitsuMike

Dang I could have sworn it was a super spider. I guess I'm just going crazy.:rolleye2:
As for the statement that the super spider will never exist, that is pretty much genetically impossible. At some point a homo spider exist. Weather it be a dead baby in an egg, a baby that didn't fully develop and molded,a baby who died soon after birth, or an animal in a collection somewhere. The animal has to exist, now proving it to exist is a different story. But without faith, wishes or dreams, what do we have?

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:confused: Why does it have to exist?

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Originally Posted by rabernet

:confused: Why does it have to exist?

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Simple statistics says it has to exist only when it comes down to Spider x Spider breedings. I don't know at what level it exist (meeting of the sperm and egg up to a live adult) but somewhere down this road is a homo spider. Now does the double spider gene combined together at meeting cause the egg to die or become infertile, could be. There are just WAY to many things going on with genetics that could cause people to never know a homo spider exist. It could be that there is more going on with the spider gene than it being just "dominant". Who really knows. But that is really moving out of the world of snake genetics and getting into the real genetics of animal species.