pic request, PLEASE

hey everybody I'm thinking of picking up a second BP to breed to my female normal. my budget is about $200 so I'm thinking either a spider or a pastel male. i keep reading about "good looking" snakes and want to make sure i get one that will produce "good looking" offspring. Can you guys help me out and show me examples of good looking vs NOT good looking snakes of those 2 morphs?

EHH this you might have some trouble with because what you think is "GOOD" I might not and vice versa .... for instance when it comes to spiders some people like the spider pattern all connected some like it broken up , some like low white sides some like high. Pastels vary as well some have some nice blushing some dont, babies tend to be a bright yellow and as they get older lets just say isnt as yellow. Im no expert but I hope you understand what Im trying to say!

Here's my male spider:

http://eclipseexotics.eclipsemetaphy...Anansi_LRG.jpg

Rather than telling you he's good, I'll just give you information.

He's got high gold color, which I like a lot. He has a few spots, which some consider a flaw. He has medium white sides. His pattern isn't really very uniform or outstanding in any particular way. He has a wobble.

I think he's a good breeder, because I value his coloration very highly. He also has an excellent temperament, and is an excellent feeder. I disregard the wobble, because I don't believe it can be bred out. (Some people do).

I would pair him with reduced pattern females and clear-window females of light or high yellow color to preserve the gold and help improve his offspring.

Here are my two spiders, Hera and Juno.

Hera is what I would consider an "excellent" grade spider by my standards. I wouldn't mind adding more like her, but I've seen very few. She is bright gold with a very "drippy" reduced-pattern, no spots, and high-white sides. She reminds me very much of a Stingerbee (Enchi spider), though to my knowledge she is just a single-gene spider. (The pictures actually wash out a lot of her gold coloring.)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...raSpiral-1.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...ana/Hera-1.jpg

Juno is what I would consider a "good" grade spider. She is a light gold-tan (not as bright gold as Hera) with a more "standard" reduced pattern and no spotting. She has low-medium white sides.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v7...ana/Juno-1.jpg

Both girls love to eat and have minimal neurologic signs -- also very important in my book.

By my standards, a "poor" grade spider would have a lot of black patterning with heavy spots, low white sides and a dark brown base-color. I'm not going to post pictures of what I would consider "poor" grade because everyone's opinion is different and I don't want to offend anyone by posting a link to someone's animal as "poor" ..! Ultimately, it's about what catches YOUR eye -- I think there is a fairly wide range of opinion on spiders.

Pastels seem a bit more straightforward, IMO -- though some (like me) like them reduced or banded pattern, with lots of blushing, and others like a bold, busy pattern, I think everyone can agree that brighter is better. We'd all rather see a yellow/gold pastel than a brown/tan one, regardless of pattern. :gj:

A good pastel that has kept it's colors up to adult hood:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5164/...52031bb9c3.jpg
ball-python by Mitsumike, on Flickr

Spiders range from golden in color to brown, reduced pattern to busy and high white to low white.

I like my decently reduced golden spider:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5084/...7ba2a9739a.jpg
spider_april_2010 by Mitsumike, on Flickr

They get more reduced than this (up to spinner looking)

To me a Nice looking spider is one that has a good mix of white and color while having distinct yet minimal pattern

http://wildmorphs.com/available/10SP...10spidm202.jpg

and as for Pastel's blushing and color are my thing..I like my pastels Yellow not orange if I can help it
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...g/DSC_0025.jpg

Thanks for all the good pictures everybody. Would you guys say pastels or spiders (or other suggestions) would be better for a first time breeder?

I started with a spider male. He was my first morph. Then got two female black backs that I have yet to prove genetic. Just recently I got a pastel male, too. So yes, those seem like good first time morphs (:

Here is my spider. I love how high his white goes. But some people may not like that as much. I also love his dark color. He's about 500 grams in this picture.
http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/x...1021130214.jpg

Here is my new pastel baby. A friend of mine told me he should keep his color well into adulthood because he's so orange. Blushing is my thing on pastels too but he doesn't have that as much.
http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/x...1205113800.jpg

Sorry for the horrible cell phone pictures. A Nikon SLR is next on my list (;

One thing to keep in mind is that pastels do color up after a few sheds. I got my female pastel thinking she was pretty decent, but after two sheds with me (probably her 4th/5th total) I'm really happy with her! With that said, you still don't want to get a cruddy pastel. They should still be pretty bold and have a lot of yellow on them. Don't waste your time on a dull/dark pastel baby, pastels brown/dull with age just like any other so you need some wiggle room!

As for spiders, I like them really clean and bright. I was lucky and have a friend near by who has a bright/high gold spiders and picked up a fantastic one from him. He's trying to talk me into picking up a female spider from him this week :colbert: But I probably will especially if she's like his other spiders!!!

My pastel, he's a decent lemon '08
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...is/006-6-3.jpg

My spider, I'm in love with '09
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t.../004-2-2-1.jpg

My pastel girl, she's a '10 Graziani
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...ed/029-4-1.jpg
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...ed/026-5-1.jpg

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Originally Posted by MitsuMike

A good pastel that has kept it's colors up to adult hood:
http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5164/...52031bb9c3.jpg
ball-python by Mitsumike, on Flickr

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Now THAT is a nice pastel! (By my pastel standards :D ) Is she yours?

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Originally Posted by Serpent_Nirvana

Now THAT is a nice pastel! (By my pastel standards :D ) Is she yours?

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Haha no. Found about the yellowest one off google to show an absolutely stunning pastel

Here is my male pastel. He is around 950 grams and has not lost any color.
http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/p...7/IMG_3661.jpg
http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/p...7/IMG_5181.jpg

Tazz, wow that's a nice looking pastel!

I love pastels, here's my female pastel

http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/...s/DSCN0518.jpg

http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/...s/DSCN0517.jpg

http://i1203.photobucket.com/albums/...s/DSCN0525.jpg

Sorry the pics aren't great. But I hope this helped with your decision.

i think I've decided on a pastel! I've been looking into the head wobble of spiders and am not big on the idea at all. Are there any other morphs in the same price range you guys think i should consider before making my purchase?

Possibly a Mojave?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SlitherinSisters

One thing to keep in mind is that pastels do color up after a few sheds. I got my female pastel thinking she was pretty decent, but after two sheds with me (probably her 4th/5th total) I'm really happy with her! With that said, you still don't want to get a cruddy pastel. They should still be pretty bold and have a lot of yellow on them. Don't waste your time on a dull/dark pastel baby, pastels brown/dull with age just like any other so you need some wiggle room!

As for spiders, I like them really clean and bright. I was lucky and have a friend near by who has a bright/high gold spiders and picked up a fantastic one from him. He's trying to talk me into picking up a female spider from him this week :colbert: But I probably will especially if she's like his other spiders!!!

My pastel, he's a decent lemon '08
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...is/006-6-3.jpg

My spider, I'm in love with '09
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t.../004-2-2-1.jpg

My pastel girl, she's a '10 Graziani
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...ed/029-4-1.jpg
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...ed/026-5-1.jpg

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thats a bright spider

Your best bet with a pastel is to get one that glows as a baby and indeed look at the price. The cleaner pastels are always marked higher than the rest but are well worth it. I paid an extra 100 compaired to the rest of the female pastels just because how amazing she looked. Here she is at 2 years old and 1600 grams. As you can see what you pay for is what you get.

http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/a...3/DSCN0030.jpg

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Originally Posted by bpandrew

i think I've decided on a pastel! I've been looking into the head wobble of spiders and am not big on the idea at all. Are there any other morphs in the same price range you guys think i should consider before making my purchase?

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The wobble does not affect the health of the animal. It's extremely rare that the wobble is debilitating in spiders, it does happen in multiple gene breedings. If you are against the spider wobble you're against anything with the spider gene in it, bumblebees, lesserbees, spider albinos, etc. Breeding a spider with horrible wobble can result in babies with very minimal wobble and the same goes with spiders with minimal wobble having babies with horrible wobble. It's all a roll of the dice. (Womas fall into the same boat)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LOSTCOAST_BALLZ

thats a bright spider

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Yeah he's awesome! I'm excited to get some babies out of him this season :please: He's a breeding monster.

A comparison shot of him
http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...Isis/034-1.jpg

I'm probably one of the few who likes a "dirty" looking spider. I like a lot of pattern, though it still has to be bold and distinct and with high white sides. I also like any snake that has a lot of yellow, so when I found my spider male, I fell in love... though his wobble has gotten progressively worse with age, so at this point I'm on the fence when it comes to breeding him (will always be my favorite little guy, though). Luckily, I still have the name of the breeder I got him from ;)

Here's his picture:

http://i456.photobucket.com/albums/q...eLeone/004.jpg

http://i456.photobucket.com/albums/q...eLeone/009.jpg

I still have yet to get some good color pictures of my 2010 pastel female, but she's coloring up wonderfully! A blushing yellow beauty :)

I guess it just depends on your personal preference. Go with whatever snakes look the most appealing to you :gj:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MissLeMew

I'm probably one of the few who likes a "dirty" looking spider. I like a lot of pattern, though it still has to be bold and distinct and with high white sides. I also like any snake that has a lot of yellow, so when I found my spider male, I fell in love... though his wobble has gotten progressively worse with age, so at this point I'm on the fence when it comes to breeding him (will always be my favorite little guy, though). Luckily, I still have the name of the breeder I got him from ;)

Here's his picture:

http://i456.photobucket.com/albums/q...eLeone/004.jpg

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Very unique looking spider! Do you know if he underwent a shed at some point in time and came out looking a bit lighter? He kind of has a bit of "that look" to him.

My spinner male has a similar look -- darker side pattern with a bright gold "stripe" down the back, underneath the black patterning -- but I've seen it on a few spinners, and not too many spiders ...

My spider at 5 months old or so. He has a reduced pattern, mid white sides, and a very smooth base-color that looks like suede.
http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l.../salazar_2.jpg

This is the only picture I can find of my pastel as a juvie - she was a year and a half old in this picture:
http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...ss07/Curly.jpg

Both of them together at 3 years old (pastel) and 2 years old (spider). As you can see the pastel has the brownish color on her dorsal stripe now but her sides are still amazingly bright. I just love these guys.
http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/l...7/SANY0049.jpg

I would suggest a pastel instead of a spider for you - not because of the wobble - but because if you breed a male pastel with your female normal you can possibly get a female pastel that 3 years later you can breed back to your male pastel to get a super-pastel that is a different color pattern than a pastel. You can't do this with a spider because there's no super-spider (that is, it doesn't produce a different colored snake).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MissLeMew

http://i456.photobucket.com/albums/q...eLeone/004.jpg

http://i456.photobucket.com/albums/q...eLeone/009.jpg

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WOW, I'm not really a big fan of spiders but I really like that one!

Wow you all have some NICE looking snakes! Hopefully I can join the club soon

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Originally Posted by Serpent_Nirvana

Very unique looking spider! Do you know if he underwent a shed at some point in time and came out looking a bit lighter? He kind of has a bit of "that look" to him.

My spinner male has a similar look -- darker side pattern with a bright gold "stripe" down the back, underneath the black patterning -- but I've seen it on a few spinners, and not too many spiders ...

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Last March I noticed he was starting to get lighter with every shed, and that stripe had turned a banana yellow... I ended up calling the breeder to see if it was something that was common with the spiders he produces, like a phase or something, and he said that his breeder spidey male was really yellow, and that he'd probably grow up to look just like his sire. Hopefully its something that'll add some flare to any kind of bee that I produce in the future. When his pastel girl gets up to size, I'm going to see if he'll breed for me, but his wobble might be an issue :/ When he stresses it gets really bad, so we'll see! Hopefully, he won't be shy with the ladies :)

Here's a pic of my female spider at 1600 grams. I got lucky because I can honestly say in the 3 years I have had her I have never seen the wobble that spiders have. To me it doesn't exhist in her. She's been bredding with my yellow belly and my pastel.

http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/a...3/DSCN0126.jpg

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Not to throw a wrench in things, but for the $200 dollar range, I would look at getting a male Fire, Enchi or Vanilla over the Pastel. I think the future breeding potential with those 3 are better, plus I like them over Pastel myself.

I have made the decision to work more Fire & Vanilla into my projects over the Pastel. You see lots of Pastel combos, but the Fire, Vanilla & Enchi are not as widespread. You see lots of Super Pastels, but not much of the Super Fire, Super Vanilla & Super Enchi.

The offspring value of the 3 mentioned is better than the Pastel right now, so you could hold one or two back and sell/trade into another morh or two to increase your collection and breeding projects.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikeDE

Not to throw a wrench in things, but for the $200 dollar range, I would look at getting a male Fire, Enchi or Vanilla over the Pastel. I think the future breeding potential with those 3 are better, plus I like them over Pastel myself.

I have made the decision to work more Fire & Vanilla into my projects over the Pastel. You see lots of Pastel combos, but the Fire, Vanilla & Enchi are not as widespread. You see lots of Super Pastels, but not much of the Super Fire, Super Vanilla & Super Enchi.

The offspring value of the 3 mentioned is better than the Pastel right now, so you could hold one or two back and sell/trade into another morh or two to increase your collection and breeding projects.

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I see what your saying but I still believe every collection should have pastel in it. Just look at the pastel fire, vanilla , and enchi, just like what those three do to other morphs the pastel gene enhances all three of those. All three are a must to add to a collection as is the pastel. You lose out on so much potential with combos with out it. Just my opinion. Its a affordable and must have.



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I agree Pastel is needed in a collection & breeding projects, I did not mean to not add it at all. I think in the current market, as unfortunate as it is, Pastels are getting into normal prices.

Right now Enchi/Vanilla females are hard to find, and are going up in price. The new combos and combo potential with these are driving them. I was just looking at the original poster's posistion in the market, by adding one of the 3 in lieu of Pastel, it puts him in a better posistion a year or two down the road to add to his future collection.

I do agree with you crballs, the pastel mixed in with these genes are sweet. The Firefly is a great looking animal. I have 2 Female Pastels that are in the 800gr range, hopegully end of 11 they will have a suitor. I have 3 double gene males and one triple that I will get to chose from.

Might as well add another must have gene IMO, Yellowbelly

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Originally Posted by crbballs

I see what your saying but I still believe every collection should have pastel in it. Just look at the pastel fire, vanilla , and enchi, just like what those three do to other morphs the pastel gene enhances all three of those. All three are a must to add to a collection as is the pastel. You lose out on so much potential with combos with out it. Just my opinion. Its a affordable and must have.



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Are the Fire, Enchi or Vanilla dominant genes?

All three are "co-dominant," with a visual homozygous ("super") form.

The super fire is a black-eyed leucistic (sometimes with yellow paradox spots).

The super Enchi kind of looks like an extreme form of a heterozygous Enchi (it's one of my favorite morphs -- don't see to many of them, either!)

The super vanilla has a very faded look to it.

Nice! Looks like I have more to think about now