cinnamon pied?

Does anyone have examples of a cinnamon pied? The only one I've seen was on KS, and it was ridiculously high white, with just a little bit of a toupee on its head. Kinda reminded me of the champagne pied and spider pied.

... Meanwhile the black pastel pied at Gulf Coast just looked like an extra-dark, medium-to-high white pied. The pattern reduction/high white thing didn't seem to really kick in until the super/panda phase.

(So what I'm wondering is: Are panda projects with cinnamons doomed from the start? Or are there some low-white examples out there somewhere?)

Interested in knowing the answer to this as well.

Hopefully I'll know the answer myself in about 3 - 5 years.

Until then, if anyone has produced a cinnamon pied or super cinnamon pied that was NOT 99% white I'd love to know about it.

I'd hate to spend all that time to breed for my cinnamon pieds, only to discover I'd bred yet another all white pied with a colored head.

Gale

BHB enterprises has a cinnamon pied listed, but no picture. If you emailed Brian it is possible that he will send you a pic. I have usually had good luck getting pic's from them if you are patient.

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Originally Posted by angllady2

I'd hate to spend all that time to breed for my cinnamon pieds, only to discover I'd bred yet another all white pied with a colored head.

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I know, right? I've got a lovely 2009 cinny pewter that I've got up to 800 grams, and I was hoping to put her to work on a pewter pied project. But the pewter pieds are turning out to be toupee jobs, too? Boo!

Here's the link to the (not super) black pastel pied at Gulf Coast.

http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/show...atid=newimages

In retrospect, I guess you can see that there's some pattern reduction going on... but still, that's a pretty awesome snake.

The "cinny" pied posted on ks was called that because we weren't sure if it was Pewter or not. We are leaning more towards Pewter than cinny because of the color. When she hatched she looked Pewter. Side by side with a cinny, she looks Pewter. The one cinny pied I've seen was about 85-90% white. We actually have a plan that we hope to add more color to the Pewter Pieds down the road. It will take us a few years to achieve this, but I think it's well worth the effort.

Here's a couple high whites from NWE:

http://www.nextworldexotics.com/images2/nwe10-2455.jpg

http://www.nextworldexotics.com/images2/nwe10-2465.jpg

But if you look at their clutchmates on the availability page, you see low-white pieds. :confused:

http://www.nextworldexotics.com/nwe.htm


... BHB also has one for sale, but there's no pic.

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Originally Posted by Brandon Osborne

We actually have a plan that we hope to add more color to the Pewter Pieds down the road. It will take us a few years to achieve this, but I think it's well worth the effort.

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Did you guys produce the low-white pewter pied/het pied as well? That's what I want a pewter pieds to look like--but did you ever figure out if it was just an intense ringer or something else?

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Originally Posted by loonunit

Did you guys produce the low-white pewter pied/het pied as well? That's what I want a pewter pieds to look like--but did you ever figure out if it was just an intense ringer or something else?

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We have the only three Pewter Pieds that I am aware of and all are high white. As I mentioned, we do have plans on adding more pattern to the pieds with another co-dom, but I don't want to go into details just yet.

I'm pretty sure you are referring to the Super Pewter, what some describe as "urban camo". That boy is only a 50% possible het pied. We are speculating though, that it is more than likely a het pied seeing how the pied gene affects co-doms quite frequently....same as the striped Super Pewter. Like you, I was a bit excited and disappointed when I saw the first Pewter Pied. I wanted more color. I'm sure the lack of pattern and color is caused by the Cinnamon gene.

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Originally Posted by Brandon Osborne

I'm pretty sure you are referring to the Super Pewter, what some describe as "urban camo". That boy is only a 50% possible het pied.

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Does you have a picture of the snake in question? I don't remember it being a super pewter... but I probably would recognize it if it's the same one.

I'm keeping back a pair of chocolates that I'm pretty sure are het pied. Given the increased dark pattern including onto the belly in chocolates I'm hoping the super chocolate piebald might be the "Holstein" ball we where hoping for in the super cinnamon pied. But with my track record on growing up females it will probably take 10 years so hopefully someone else will answer that question first.

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

I'm keeping back a pair of chocolates that I'm pretty sure are het pied. Given the increased dark pattern including onto the belly in chocolates I'm hoping the super chocolate piebald might be the "Holstein" ball we where hoping for in the super cinnamon pied. But with my track record on growing up females it will probably take 10 years so hopefully someone else will answer that question first.

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Sables seem to be a bust so far, right? Hopefully the chocos will work out. What's left after chocolates? Black axanthics? I know there are some other dark morphs floating around out there.

Or I guess we can collect all of the zero-white pieds we can find... line breed them until they consistently make no-white babies... and then start over with black pastels and cinnamons. :tears:

Here are the two Super Pewter pos. het pieds.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...e/d2ff5999.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...e/fa71be23.jpg

[QUOTE=Brandon Osborne;1472544]Here are the two Super Pewter pos. het pieds.

Awsome snakes. So are they from pewter het pied x pewter het pied paring?

as of what i know if you had the enchi gene you get an extremely low white pied cause for some reason the enchi gene puts up all the color and pattern in the pied so i guess if you had enchi + cinni + pied you should get something really colored.

like this one from ozzy enchi + pied

http://www.worldofballpythons.com/fi...chiPiedF-2.JPG



or this one from nerd the pastel enchi pied

http://www.worldofballpythons.com/fi...l-pied/001.jpg

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Originally Posted by loonunit

Sables seem to be a bust so far, right?

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Remind me please, I don't know or have forgotten what's been done with sables and pied. The enchi angle was also news to me but sounds like we have some possibilities left.

The chocolate thing was mostly an accident. I had several well marked 25% chance het pied girls that where finally ready to breed last winter (7 to 9 years old, lol) and hadn't seen much action from my possible het pied male so threw my chocolate male in with each once in February and got almost all chocolates and fortunately a half sibling pair with het pied belly marks.

Oh, that's interesting. I had just assumed enchi pieds had turned out low white because enchis DIDN'T reduce pattern, and they just got lucky. But I guess they've ALL turned out low- or no-white...

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As an example the Spider Pied, Sable Pied, Bumble Bee Pie and Desert combo Pied have all made 90% white snakes with the combo patterned head. Although nice, it seems to be a dead end if you plan on going further with it.

The Enchi stuff may keep that door open!

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(From here:

http://www.newenglandreptile.com/car...-het-pied.html )

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Originally Posted by Brandon Osborne

Here are the two Super Pewter pos. het pieds.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f2...e/d2ff5999.jpg

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Yeah, I'm thinking that top one is the one I saw. I've only seen a few super pewters on the internet, okay, but that one's in another league entirely....