Outlook On Breeding?

Well,

I have always been impressed with ball pythons. But I didn't get one until the age of 28. I love everything about ball pythons and I really enjoy the 3 I have. But now I come to the point where i want to become a breeder. But from the outside looking in I wonder is it worth investing in? I'm not getting into this just for the money, I actually can say that I found something that I love doing. Not saying that it's going to be easy.

SO TO ALL THE SMALL, MEDIUM AND LARGE BREEDERS! CAN I GET YOUR OPINION ON BREEDING PLEASE :confused::confused::confused:

If you play your cards right you can be as successful as you want to be

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Originally Posted by BEasy119

Well,

I have always been impressed with ball pythons. But I didn't get one until the age of 28. I love everything about ball pythons and I really enjoy the 3 I have. But now I come to the point where i want to become a breeder. But from the outside looking in I wonder is it worth investing in? I'm not getting into this just for the money, I actually can say that I found something that I love doing. Not saying that it's going to be easy.

SO TO ALL THE SMALL, MEDIUM AND LARGE BREEDERS! CAN I GET YOUR OPINION ON BREEDING PLEASE :confused::confused::confused:

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I'm just starting out with my collection, but I can share some things that I've learned lately. Understand first of all that it is expensive and time consuming. I have been spending at least an hour a day just cleaning up after my 18 hatchlings and 4 adults, and it takes another hour or two every 5 days to feed them all depending on how picky they're being. And that is just MY time... my wife is putting in her hours as well. Not to mention all of the time we "have" to spend handling them (that part isn't a chore :D). Then there's the countless hours I have been on here learning from others' mistakes and tips, and trying to put them to use.

The tubs, racks, tstats, heat tape, substrate, cleaning supplies, etc... all adds up really quickly. I've also been spending about $50-70 per week on rats/mice because I can't start breeding my own just yet and I don't know any breeders around here. Also, buying the snakes themselves can be expensive, especially once you start justify getting them with the excuse that you'll be getting your money back in a few years, which you may very well not.

I really wouldn't suggest doing this until you think about your investment taking 3-4 years before it even (maybe) begins paying itself off. You need to have a love for the animals themselves (which you say you do), and understand going in that this is not a way to make a quick buck. It takes a lot of knowledge and a lot of necessary daily work to properly care for these animals, especially in bulk. Also, make sure you have a *lot* of free space if you plan on gathering a large collection, and a separate space for your quarantine room.

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Originally Posted by spitzu

I'm just starting out with my collection, but I can share some things that I've learned lately. Understand first of all that it is expensive and time consuming. I have been spending at least an hour a day just cleaning up after my 18 hatchlings and 4 adults, and it takes another hour or two every 5 days to feed them all depending on how picky they're being. And that is just MY time... my wife is putting in her hours as well. Not to mention all of the time we "have" to spend handling them (that part isn't a chore :D). Then there's the countless hours I have been on here learning from others' mistakes and tips, and trying to put them to use.

The tubs, racks, tstats, heat tape, substrate, cleaning supplies, etc... all adds up really quickly. I've also been spending about $50-70 per week on rats/mice because I can't start breeding my own just yet and I don't know any breeders around here. Also, buying the snakes themselves can be expensive, especially once you start justify getting them with the excuse that you'll be getting your money back in a few years, which you may very well not.

I really wouldn't suggest doing this until you think about your investment taking 3-4 years before it even (maybe) begins paying itself off. You need to have a love for the animals themselves (which you say you do), and understand going in that this is not a way to make a quick buck. It takes a lot of knowledge and a lot of necessary daily work to properly care for these animals, especially in bulk. Also, make sure you have a *lot* of free space if you plan on gathering a large collection, and a separate space for your quarantine room.

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Thanks for the info which is really appreciated. Quick Question do you feed your snakes live or frozen? I'm hoping to get all my snakes on frozen. Then i want to invest in a freezer where i can store the f/t rats.

Then it's a site that if you order $100 or more you get free shipping!
http://www.americanrodent.com/

Hope my info was helpful. Thanks for the replies :bow::bow::bow:

I would personally start with the 3 you have and go from there. Actually experience the breeding season with what you have. Even if it's normal to normal it's still an experience to see if this is actually something you want to do and it will give you some insight for future seasons.
Also the necessary evil to breeding BP's is breeding rats. You will prob need to get 2 racks going on rats and the over flow you can sell to local people.

I'm not breeding yet, but it is certainly a dream of mine when hubby finally retires from the military and we settle into a permanent home. But here are my thoughts about the issue...from the point-of-view of someone who is looking toward future potential as well....

As with ANY entrepreneurial endeavor, those with the right combination of business savy, work ethic, guts, and luck can succeed as much as they wish to. For MOST of us, it's simply a hobby that we hope will pay for itself because we love the animals so much. No matter what your ultimate goal is, success IS possible if one is willing to work hard enough and smart enough.

My advice is to take the time to really learn and absorb as much as you can. I've been doing this for years, and still feel like an utter newb on many levels. But the slow, deliberate process of learning will help you to refine and define what YOU really love and are most passionate about. It will also help you to build genuine relationships with other members of the community and you can build a good, solid reputation even before you begin trying to sell anything. You'll also learn who to trust and what red-flags to avoid.

Be very, very patient when it comes time to spend some money. Make sure you're working with a trustworthy person and not just jumping on the first exciting "deal" that comes along. Also, make sure you're planning your acquisitions carefully to build toward the projects that fascinate you the most. Most importantly, QUALITY animals make QUALITY offspring. Be patient and watch diligently for the very best examples of the morphs you love. Rather than just buying up the first lesser or pastel you see just because it's "the morph"....look for the ones with the most pleasing patterns and vibrant colors that will have the greatest chance of producing exceptional offspring. You'll never regret passing on an ordinary pastel...but you might someday regret not spending a few extra dollars on that amazing one that made your heart race.

Good luck!!

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Originally Posted by MitsuMike

I would personally start with the 3 you have and go from there. Actually experience the breeding season with what you have. Even if it's normal to normal it's still an experience to see if this is actually something you want to do and it will give you some insight for future seasons.
Also the necessary evil to breeding BP's is breeding rats. You will prob need to get 2 racks going on rats and the over flow you can sell to local people.

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Well thanks for the response. I want to have my collection feeding on F/T for a few reasons. For one I don't really have enough space to breed rats and my GF would probably kill me anyway. I breed mice once before when i had my redtail and them suckers stink. But i do feel that's a good way to bring some money into your hobby. Sticking with the three i have is a good idea also. Its just so many morphs that i want to work with. Once again thanks for your feed back

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Originally Posted by JLC

I'm not breeding yet, but it is certainly a dream of mine when hubby finally retires from the military and we settle into a permanent home. But here are my thoughts about the issue...from the point-of-view of someone who is looking toward future potential as well....

As with ANY entrepreneurial endeavor, those with the right combination of business savy, work ethic, guts, and luck can succeed as much as they wish to. For MOST of us, it's simply a hobby that we hope will pay for itself because we love the animals so much. No matter what your ultimate goal is, success IS possible if one is willing to work hard enough and smart enough.

My advice is to take the time to really learn and absorb as much as you can. I've been doing this for years, and still feel like an utter newb on many levels. But the slow, deliberate process of learning will help you to refine and define what YOU really love and are most passionate about. It will also help you to build genuine relationships with other members of the community and you can build a good, solid reputation even before you begin trying to sell anything. You'll also learn who to trust and what red-flags to avoid.

Be very, very patient when it comes time to spend some money. Make sure you're working with a trustworthy person and not just jumping on the first exciting "deal" that comes along. Also, make sure you're planning your acquisitions carefully to build toward the projects that fascinate you the most. Most importantly, QUALITY animals make QUALITY offspring. Be patient and watch diligently for the very best examples of the morphs you love. Rather than just buying up the first lesser or pastel you see just because it's "the morph"....look for the ones with the most pleasing patterns and vibrant colors that will have the greatest chance of producing exceptional offspring. You'll never regret passing on an ordinary pastel...but you might someday regret not spending a few extra dollars on that amazing one that made your heart race.

Good luck!!

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Judy,

Thanks for your response also. I'm glad I found this website. It's a community where you can communicate with owners of reptiles and don't have to feel weird if you have a question. I spend a lot of time soaking up knowledge on here and I really do appreciate all of the feed back! Thanks for your help

I think if you do decide to get into breeding, that frozen/thawed is going to be a lot more work than live feeders. With the two dozen breeders that I have, I could not imagine taking all the time to thaw out frozen rats then do the zombie dance with thongs getting them to eat one at a time. I buy some rats and breed some. If you set up properly, you can keep the smell down by changing the bedding out frequently.

Before you start buying up animals to breed, make sure you have a plan of what you want to do. What morphs do you want to produce or start with? How much time do you have to invest each week in cleaning, feeding and caring for the animals? Who is going to take care of your collection if you are out of town? What racks do you want to use? What racks will you use for hatchlings?

You will be investing a lot of money in quality racks, feeding, breeding stock, etc., if you do it right. So, take your time and do a lot of planning. Otherwise, you may end up spending money on things that you find later are a waste.

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Originally Posted by Don

I think if you do decide to get into breeding, that frozen/thawed is going to be a lot more work than live feeders. With the two dozen breeders that I have, I could not imagine taking all the time to thaw out frozen rats then do the zombie dance with thongs getting them to eat one at a time. I buy some rats and breed some. If you set up properly, you can keep the smell down by changing the bedding out frequently.

Before you start buying up animals to breed, make sure you have a plan of what you want to do. What morphs do you want to produce or start with? How much time do you have to invest each week in cleaning, feeding and caring for the animals? Who is going to take care of your collection if you are out of town? What racks do you want to use? What racks will you use for hatchlings?

You will be investing a lot of money in quality racks, feeding, breeding stock, etc., if you do it right. So, take your time and do a lot of planning. Otherwise, you may end up spending money on things that you find later are a waste.

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Thanks Don,

I've been researching racks and i came up with one i want as a hatchling rack and i have a home made 4 slot rack right now and might pick up a adult rack. Morphs i wan't to work with. Where do i start and where do i end. But i think i need to be patient and take my time. Thanks for the advice :D :D :D

I think the biggest thing is not to try to become a huge breeder overnight. That's a surefire way to burn yourself out. In other words, don't go from the 3 you have now and put a second mortgage on your house to buy 50 more snakes without first trying it on a small scale.

My advice would be to use what you've got and see how it goes. Pins are a dominant morph so anything you breed a pin to would produce about 50% pins. Let's say you have an average size clutch and all goes right and you get a couple of pins out of your normal/pin pairing. Right there you're looking at a sale price of between $600 and $1000 for the two of them depending on the sexes, patterns, and everything else that goes into making each snake an individual (like if it has an exceptionally clean appareance or something), plus whatever you get for your normals that would be produced from the same pairing.

Since your pin is a male, you could even invest in another normal female to essentially double your number of pins produced at very little additional cost to what you already have.

Since you don't have that many snakes, you should be able to pull a profit from that type of breeding. It's when you invest in big high-end expensive stuff that your overhead becomes pretty large. It's no guarantee, but you might see some turnaround after only a year (assuming your snakes are already at breeding age) rather than waiting the 3-4 years somebody else mentioned. If you do turn a profit, you can use that to invest in other morphs, cages, racks, and everything else you might need to scale your breeding projects up in the future.

With balls, you're in a good position to "try it out" more than you would be with some of the larger pythons or some colubrids because of the number of eggs they lay. You can have a small-time breeding project like the one I mentioned above and not have to invest a lot into racks and all of that. Even if you get that second female, since they're first time breeders, you'll probably end up with fewer than a dozen eggs total (and that's not taking into account any that are slugs or that don't survive). With that, you can pretty easily use individual tubs or something like that to house them in without having to spend money on a rack.

I'm not breeding yet! But, I'm starting my collection to breed. I'm lucky, I live near a few well know breeders who are all awsome people and have shared some tricks/ secrets with me. I purchased my first Morph from Rockstar Reptile. She is a Black Pastel and I'm getting a female Lesser from them in December as well. I've talked to Lance Portal of Lance Portal Reptiles and Nick Mutton of Inland Reptile. Also this forum is AWSOME! I've asked a few questions and with in a day I've had plenty of feed back and in-depth explinations. Some, to in-depth! I just look at my computer completely confussed! The advice I've gotten from most people it don't buy the EXPENSIVE snake right out of the gate! Make it....I.E. I want a Blue Eyed Lucy! So, I am getting a female Lesser and a male Mojave to try and make my own! It will be cheaper and mean a lot more to me to produce such a beautiful snake. Like I stated, I'm not a breeder yet! But, I'm where you are and figured I'd share what I've learned so far. If you have snakes ready to breed. Try them! Then if you want to get into Morphs go for it! Everyone has told me to get females first, so you can raise them and know exactly how they've been taken care of and once they're at the proper weight. You can breed them!

Please dont do what i did and just buy anything and everything you can. If your going to get into it on a larger scale try and plan out what you want to create\breed before you buy anything. Had i done that i would not have 30 plus snakes and only have around 10 maybe 15 tops. Your work load right now for them is minimal but as you get more and more snakes the work load will increase. Im sure you know that already but trust me take that into consideration. You never know what might happen to you and if you are injured the work load of 30 plus snakes might be to much for you. Always keep that in the back of your mind. You dont ever want to neglect an animal so make sure you always have a back up plan. I was injured a few months ago in an auto accident which had put me in a position where I was about to sell off every bp i own. Luckily I have help from a few close locals to me that come to the house through out the week to help me with the large work load. But all in all. I honestly couldnt even explain the feeling of raising an animal from a hatchling and then watching it grow and eventually produce. The first time you see those eggs pip you are going to run around like a little kid. I know i did. Just make sure you go over everything you want to accomplish at least 10 times before you make a decision. Wish the best for you and good luck on any and all future breedings.

I say go ahead and do it! How many things are there in life that you can find yourself love doing and also could pay for itself and perhaps much more at the same time? And the accomplishment felt by creating your own morph one day is not what money can measure. But starting slowly with careful planning is the key, good luck.

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Originally Posted by BallsUnlimited

Please dont do what i did and just buy anything and everything you can. If your going to get into it on a larger scale try and plan out what you want to create\breed before you buy anything. Had i done that i would not have 30 plus snakes and only have around 10 maybe 15 tops. Your work load right now for them is minimal but as you get more and more snakes the work load will increase. Im sure you know that already but trust me take that into consideration. You never know what might happen to you and if you are injured the work load of 30 plus snakes might be to much for you. Always keep that in the back of your mind. You dont ever want to neglect an animal so make sure you always have a back up plan. I was injured a few months ago in an auto accident which had put me in a position where I was about to sell off every bp i own. Luckily I have help from a few close locals to me that come to the house through out the week to help me with the large work load. But all in all. I honestly couldnt even explain the feeling of raising an animal from a hatchling and then watching it grow and eventually produce. The first time you see those eggs pip you are going to run around like a little kid. I know i did. Just make sure you go over everything you want to accomplish at least 10 times before you make a decision. Wish the best for you and good luck on any and all future breedings.

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This is some DAMN GOOD advice. I appreciate it. I'm going to take my time and not put to much on my plate. I watched a close friend who had a lot of love for snakes. And he put to much on his plate and now he don't have the same love. I used to look to him for motivation and now it's depressing cauz i know the love he had at once. This is one thing i can actually say I love doing. Even if 2 of my snakes when they use the bathroom smell worse than mine lol. But i love Otis, Queen and Pinz to death.

Thanks everyone for the advice I need to hear different points of views!
:D:D:D:D:D:D

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Originally Posted by ace_singapore

I say go ahead and do it! How many things are there in life that you can find yourself love doing and also could pay for itself and perhaps much more at the same time? And the accomplishment felt by creating your own morph one day is not what money can measure. But starting slowly with careful planning is the key, good luck.

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Thanks Ace,

I'm going to take my time and get combos that I want to breed! :D

i been wanting to get into breeding to but mine wont be able to breed for 3 years but even if i dont want to breed i still have my favorite morphs.