!!WARNING!! don't ship UPS

six days ago on nov 22 i Purchased female chocolate BP from an add on kingsnake.com and it was shipped that day via ups overnight. i was told that it would be arriving the next day at 4:00pm... the next day at 4:00pm i called ups to ask what the problem was sense my package was nowhere to be found and they told me that there had ben mechanical problems somewhere in Kentucky and it was probably nearing its destination now. the next day at 4 i reseved the package and after opining it i fount to be empty except for the usual fome sides and wadded up news paper but no snake. i agin called ups and after 15 minutes of giving this lady all this information and having to repeat this 20 digit tracking number over and over she finally told me that i could not file a claim because
''WE DON'T SHIP SNAKES''
someone new what it was and new that their is nothing i can do about it because they ''DON'T SHIP SNAKES''

just a warning
i don't recommend ups

I hate to say this, but the "Don't Ship UPS" sort of generates an automatic response in me of "Well, duh!"

But besides that...a package with no content in it demands a lot more investigation than just a mere assumption that a UPS employee somehow "knew" what was in there and figured he couldn't get in trouble for stealing it. (At least that's what it seems like you're implying.)

NO, you can't make a claim against loss for a package that should not have shipped in the first place. But, if I were to somehow find myself in your shoes, you can be darned sure I would be all over the seller saying, "Where's the snake?!?" It seems far more likely that you were scammed out of the animal than someone stole it.

Was the box labeled? Was the strapping tape tampered with at all? If the box wasn't labeled, how would a UPS employee know what was in it to steal? If the box WAS labeled, how did it get past the UPS nazi's in the first place? Is the box damaged with a hole that would allow the snake to escape?

I thought it was well known that UPS didn't ship snakes, I'm sorry that happened to you but for the safety of the animals you should only go through services that actually allow snakes

Who was the snake from?

I'd also like to know who the seller was.

Who is the seller and why did they ship UPS in the first place? Lots of questions need to be answered, we can't just assume the facts by what you told us, we need more information.

Sounds like a bad situation, we just need more information.

Sad to say, pretty much everyone who wants to get a snake shipped should do enough homework to know that shipping UPS is in fact, illegal.

As well as wanting to know where the snake went, I'd ask UPS about filing a complaint against the seller. After all he/she knowingly broke the law.

As to your claim of someone there knowing there was a snake inside and deciding to steal it, that is far-fetched at best. Unless the box was plainly labeled as containing a snake, how would anyone know what was in it? And just as Judy said, if it were labeled as containing a snake, why on earth did they accept the box in the first place ?

I'd be a lot more concerned about why on earth a seller was using UPS in the first place, since they should ALL know not to do that. That would be the equivalent of shipping a pipe bomb through the post office in a box labeled "explosives". No body in their right mind would try it.

So I'd be contacting that seller, and demanding to know why they used an illegal shipping method. If that method was stated in the ad, then I'm sorry to say, you should have done some more research. I'd never accept a live animal being shipped to me unless I knew for a fact it was being sent to me legally and safely.

Gale

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Originally Posted by angllady2

Sad to say, pretty much everyone who wants to get a snake shipped should do enough homework to know that shipping UPS is in fact, illegal.

As well as wanting to know where the snake went, I'd ask UPS about filing a complaint against the seller. After all he/she knowingly broke the law.

As to your claim of someone there knowing there was a snake inside and deciding to steal it, that is far-fetched at best. Unless the box was plainly labeled as containing a snake, how would anyone know what was in it? And just as Judy said, if it were labeled as containing a snake, why on earth did they accept the box in the first place ?

I'd be a lot more concerned about why on earth a seller was using UPS in the first place, since they should ALL know not to do that. That would be the equivalent of shipping a pipe bomb through the post office in a box labeled "explosives". No body in their right mind would try it.

So I'd be contacting that seller, and demanding to know why they used an illegal shipping method, and asking for proof of shipment.

Gale

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Shipping a snake UPS is NOT illegal - it's against their policy.

However, not labeling the box correctly indicating what is inside the box is a violation of the Lacey Act and a federal violation.

You may be thinking of shipping USPS, in which case, shipping snakes through them IS illegal.

sounds to me like you got scammed from the start.

If UPS took your snake due to infractions, they would have told you. I also HIGHLY doubt someone stole it out of the box. sounds like what most likely happened is your breeder took your money and sent you a empty box so you would have "track shipment number" while he waited for the payment to clear and scam complete.

This has never happened to be but has always been a fear every time I order. Make sure you do a little research and know who your getting your animals from, Any one can find a picture of a snake, put it on the internet, and send you a empty box.

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Originally Posted by BbyBoa

sounds to me like you got scammed from the start.

If UPS took your snake due to infractions, they would have told you. I also HIGHLY doubt someone stole it out of the box. sounds like what most likely happened is your breeder took your money and sent you a empty box so you would have "track shipment number" while he waited for the payment to clear and scam complete.

This has never happened to be but has always been a fear every time I order. Make sure you do a little research and know who your getting your animals from, Any one can find a picture of a snake, put it on the internet, and send you a empty box.

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I agree... :(

When you buy a snake on line from a reputable breeder they will usually guarantee live arrival. It doesn't look like that happened here. Get a refund from the seller not UPS. Like someone said...you may have been scammed.

I as a seller was scammed before on an order.

I shipped a box with corn snakes that arrived and buyer filed a claim with paypal saying box never arrived. Even though i talked to him about the snakes he got and was happy. Well paypal in despite of seeing the Delivered tracking, still gave him his money and got the snakes.

If you used a CC with paypal you should get your money back.

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

I as a seller was scammed before on an order.

I shipped a box with corn snakes that arrived and buyer filed a claim with paypal saying box never arrived. Even though i talked to him about the snakes he got and was happy. Well paypal in despite of seeing the Delivered tracking, still gave him his money and got the snakes.

If you used a CC with paypal you should get your money back.

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How can a seller protect against that?

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Originally Posted by ted1025

How can a seller protect against that?

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The buyer and seller are both protected by PayPal. The buyer opens a dispute, PayPal gets in contact with both parties, and determines what should happen. Although they can make mistakes, normally they are able to figure out what happened and decide what should happen to fix the issue.

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Originally Posted by ted1025

How can a seller protect against that?

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Require a direct signature at delivery. I require a signature so that I have proof that the animal did arrive and at what time.. it keeps people from getting the snake and leaving it in their car at work thus killing it and claiming the animal arrived this way.. If you sign for the snake at 8:30 am and call me at 8 PM saying the animal is dead we have a huge problem..

Require a direct signature from the addressee, and you'll cut down on the chance at being scammed..

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Originally Posted by ted1025

How can a seller protect against that?

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by not using paypal

paypal caters to scammers, i will NEVER accept payment through paypal, ever. ive been scammed on there before as well. they do absolutley nothing to help you, and arent interested in what really happened. all the other person has to do is say, i didnt authorize that payment. they get their money back and it gets taken out of your account, no questions asked.

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Originally Posted by BAMReptiles

by not using paypal

paypal caters to scammers, i will NEVER accept payment through paypal, ever. ive been scammed on there before as well. they do absolutley nothing to help you, and arent interested in what really happened. all the other person has to do is say, i didnt authorize that payment. they get their money back and it gets taken out of your account, no questions asked.

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Agree 100%, paypal is horrible, anything that allows you to pay receive a item then take your money back on the spot is ridiculous to me. I have had this happen to me. Paypal is the easiest way by far to pay, but its also the best way to get yourself ripped off.

I stand corrected.

It is USPS that is illegal, UPS is just against policy. Sorry for the confusion. I still think this person was scammed. It is a shame, but it is also partly their fault. If I'm going to send more than about $25 to someone I don't know, to receive a live animal in return, you can darn well be sure I am going to be asking a LOT of questions to make sure I'm not going to get into trouble.

I still remember purchasing an airline approved box to ship some pet birds. For whatever reason, the people I ordered it from sent it to me assembled! Needless to say, I received a phone call at 3am from an irate USPS worker demanding to know why I was breaking the law by sending live birds through the mail. I tried desperately to explain I had no idea what she was talking about, I assured her I wasn't expecting a shipment of birds. I still had to get out of bed, get dressed and drive to the post office. When presented with the box, I opened it and showed them there were no birds inside and never had been. They still insisted I was a liar and filed a complaint against me. It took me almost a month to get that mess straightened out. And that was over an empty box.

No way would I send a couple hundred dollars to someone I don't know without making sure this person knows exactly what they are doing. I do feel sympathy for the buyer, after all they paid for something they did not receive. But I'd be a LOT more suspicious of the seller, not UPS.

Gale

Gale

If shipping reptiles is against UPS policy, why does http://www.shipyourreptiles.com/ have a UPS tracking entry field on their main page? Are snakes specifically forbidden, but lizards & other reptiles allowed?

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Originally Posted by olstyn

If shipping reptiles is against UPS policy, why does http://www.shipyourreptiles.com/ have a UPS tracking entry field on their main page? Are snakes specifically forbidden, but lizards & other reptiles allowed?

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SYR was a reptile shipping company for shipping lizards and what not. They were not allowed to ship snakes.

This is why many third party sites are working hard to allow snake shipping via their waivers.

i'm gonna keep an eye on this thread. good point about shipyourreptiles.com.

i think i VAGUELY remember something about shipyourreptiles being discontinued (or whatever) but i am not sure where, when, or why i would have heard that.

either way, this sounds fishy to me.

according to this (from SYR's site) snakes should be allowed?

"Shipping and Tracking Questions

What can I ship through ShipYourReptiles.com?

You cannot ship illegal drugs, batteries, liquor, aerosols, firearms and ammunition, fireworks, explosives, mammals (no dogs, no cats), birds, dry ice and absolutely no venomous reptiles."

it doesn't say no snakes. i have no idea though, I'm in Canada anyways, where shipping reptiles is virtually impossible for me.

people are just jerks.....=/ is there a way to report the scammer?!

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Originally Posted by katia

according to this (from SYR's site) snakes should be allowed?

"Shipping and Tracking Questions

What can I ship through ShipYourReptiles.com?

You cannot ship illegal drugs, batteries, liquor, aerosols, firearms and ammunition, fireworks, explosives, mammals (no dogs, no cats), birds, dry ice and absolutely no venomous reptiles."

it doesn't say no snakes. i have no idea though, I'm in Canada anyways, where shipping reptiles is virtually impossible for me.

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But No third party company has been given the OK to ship snakes.

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Originally Posted by katia

according to this (from SYR's site) snakes should be allowed?

"Shipping and Tracking Questions

What can I ship through ShipYourReptiles.com?

You cannot ship illegal drugs, batteries, liquor, aerosols, firearms and ammunition, fireworks, explosives, mammals (no dogs, no cats), birds, dry ice and absolutely no venomous reptiles."

it doesn't say no snakes. i have no idea though, I'm in Canada anyways, where shipping reptiles is virtually impossible for me.

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I would guess that SYR simply never got around to updating all the various info on their pages. UPS has made it very clear that they will NOT allow snakes to be shipped through SYR or RE or any other service. As I understand it, they also put a cease-and-desist on both SYR and RE for selling 3rd party shipping labels, as that is also against UPS policy.

so if you want a reptile in canada what do you do? =/

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Originally Posted by dembonez

so if you want a reptile in canada what do you do? =/

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Contact a larger name breeder who can get same day CITIES for exporting Reptiles

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Originally Posted by dembonez

so if you want a reptile in canada what do you do? =/

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find a breeder that you can go directly to, attend a show, make a roadtrip...you CAN ship air, but for *me* (sorry, i should have specified it was impossible for me) it is a 4hr round trip to the airport. air shipping is extremely expensive as well, and only available certain times of the year. i believe. i haven't looked much into it because i don't breed on a big enough scale that somebody might need me to ship to them.

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Contact a larger name breeder who can get same day CITIES for exporting Reptiles

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or that.

Very odd considering I have had two ball pythons shipped to me via UPS from Mike Willbanks (Constrictors Unlimited). They were shipped to me in July.

UPS will ship snakes.

I've used them for years and have no complaints. They always ask what's in the box, I tell them, and away go my snakes.
Who shipped the snake you didn't receive?

im waiting for the origional poster to still fill in some missing info on this.

shipyourreptiles.com and reptilesexpress.com both "had" permission to sell 3rd party labels and to ship snakes,lizards frogs turtles..ect,ect,ect

syr sent a notice to all its registered members stating that they were no longer shipping snakes due to some irresponsible people. now they are claiming that their shipping label matrix is down and they are working with ups to fix the issue. both syr and reptiles express are supposedly in negotiations with ups to allow the shipping of snakes again.
i imho can see syr getting permission back but i have a feeling that RE never really had permission or something along those lines. i just always had a feeling about them and preffered to use shipyourreptiles.com instead.
adam jeffery

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Originally Posted by adamjeffery

im waiting for the origional poster to still fill in some missing info on this.

shipyourreptiles.com and reptilesexpress.com both "had" permission to sell 3rd party labels and to ship snakes,lizards frogs turtles..ect,ect,ect

syr sent a notice to all its registered members stating that they were no longer shipping snakes due to some irresponsible people. now they are claiming that their shipping label matrix is down and they are working with ups to fix the issue. both syr and reptiles express are supposedly in negotiations with ups to allow the shipping of snakes again.
i imho can see syr getting permission back but i have a feeling that RE never really had permission or something along those lines. i just always had a feeling about them and preffered to use shipyourreptiles.com instead.
adam jeffery

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SYR was never approved to ship snakes as no waiver was brought forth stating so. RE did get a waiver that stated Reptile shipping but not snakes.

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Originally Posted by L2.BP.Plox

Very odd considering I have had two ball pythons shipped to me via UPS from Mike Willbanks (Constrictors Unlimited). They were shipped to me in July.

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Back in the Day UPS allowed snake shipping. And Willbanks, Clark,RDR all have waivers and or grandfathered in to still ship snakes.

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Back in the Day UPS allowed snake shipping. And Willbanks, Clark,RDR all have waivers and or grandfathered in to still ship snakes.

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Ah, I see. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

SYR was never approved to ship snakes as no waiver was brought forth stating so. RE did get a waiver that stated Reptile shipping but not snakes.

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jeez louise, what the hay is the difference between a reptile and a snake?

Ummmm, lizards, tortoises, turtles.

If you need more details there's this thing called google...

its not illegal to ship reptiles using ups. snakes are on the list of prohibited items on the "live animal" shipping list, which doesn't make sense since you can ship lizards, turtles, and fish. and when you search for reptile shipping sites, one example is http://www.reptilesexpress.com/ they use ups exclusively and will ship a snake for you. they have a ups truck right on their box! just as a side note as a ups store manager, i wouldn't use ups to ship anything let alone a reptile. drivers just dont care whats in your package. good luck cause dealing with those morons on the phone will cause more headaches than slamming your head against a brick wall.

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Originally Posted by redtail9610

its not illegal to ship reptiles using ups. snakes are on the list of prohibited items on the "live animal" shipping list, which doesn't make sense since you can ship lizards, turtles, and fish. and when you search for reptile shipping sites, one example is http://www.reptilesexpress.com/ they use ups exclusively and will ship a snake for you. they have a ups truck right on their box! just as a side note as a ups store manager, i wouldn't use ups to ship anything let alone a reptile. drivers just dont care whats in your package. good luck cause dealing with those morons on the phone will cause more headaches than slamming your head against a brick wall.

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This is no longer the case for either ReptilesExpress or ShipYourReptiles. UPS is quite stubborn about not shipping snakes regardless of the other reptiles they will allow. (The exception being for a few individuals who were grandfathered in sometime in the past)

I agree about not using UPS to ship any animals at all. I've heard too many horror stories. Of course there are plenty of successful stories...and any method of shipping has its risks....but it does seem like your risk for disaster increases significantly with UPS. About the only thing worse is USPS. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Ummmm, lizards, tortoises, turtles.

If you need more details there's this thing called google...

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i didn't ask "what is a reptile?"

i meant why on earth do they say they will ship reptiles, if they won't ship snakes? a snake is a reptile.

that's like saying, we accept children at this daycare, but not 9 year olds.

they should have a clear, concise list of what they DON'T ship. from my short browse over their website, i pretty much got that i CAN, in fact, ship snakes. or crocodiles, even. snakes and crocodiles are reptiles, and it says they ship reptiles.

somebody really needs to make some changes to that site.