Picture of Elizabeth maybe shedding? I need the communities opinions please!

I am a super, nervous mommy... like... I am just worried about her and I want her to be healthy and happy and alive and vigorous... and she is my first python... and I have never seen a shed before...
I started noticing dryish scales on her belly about 2 or 3 days ago... and as of late she has a pink hue to her stomach and, there is like.. orange/pink spots on random scales... that lean towards orange... I am afraid its something worse than shedding... I just took her out... after three days of no handling (just to let her be and "shed" in peace) and cleaned her water and misted her cage and stuff down to make sure it's all humid enough... and I took her and put her in luke warm water in my bathtub (hence the pictures I will post) and then let her slide through a clean tower to dry off... and she felt, less dry... I mean... stilll obvious dry scales and she has three flaky spots on her little head that look like the start of shedding but I am not sure...
someone please allay my fears of her being sick with some new illness... I just want her to be shedding :D

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._6073805_n.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-...9_154912_n.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._1611372_n.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._5024520_n.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._3532945_n.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-...0_558236_n.jpg
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._5118598_n.jpg

note the orange ish spots on her tummy in the second picture... and my mother holding the snake (to her distaste :D:D)

Its always really hard to tell from pictures, but in my opinion she looks fine. Im thinking she is going into shed. The pink belly is unmistakeable. The shed cycle takes 7-10 usually, and once they hit the blue phase, where the eyes appear blue and their colors really dull out, they have 2-3 days until the actualy shed.

Im thinking your just being a little worried, but its always better to be safe than sorry! From what your describing and from the pictures im pretty much positive she is going into shed. Keep the humidity a little higher than usual and she'll be looking nice and new within the week.

Hi,

I hate to say it but I think you're possibly right to be concerned.

What are you using as a substrate, what kind of heating are you using and how are you controling it?


dr del

Ok...a few comments...

1. The pink/orange spots look like the early stages of scale rot, which is caused by overly moist and/or dirty substrate. At this early stage, changing to clean, dry paper should be enough, and the lesions will heal up and shed out.

2. In some pics, the pink belly looks like the start of the shedding process....but in others, it looks like it could be a burn. It could be that the different lighting simply made the belly appear differently in each picture, and only you can tell for sure in person. Is the entire belly an even light-to-medium shade of pink? If so, it's probably just the start of the shed cycle. If the pink is really dark, and/or if it is only located on portions of the belly, then it could be a burn.

If you can describe your set-up...what kind of substrate...what kind of heating element you have...what you use to measure temps...and what you use to control temps (if anything)...what your overall temps and humidity levels are....these sorts of details will help us help you.

Lastly...it's best to NOT soak a snake right before a shed. Doing so doesn't really help anything, and it might make it worse. AFTER a shed has gone bad and there are patches of dry skin that won't easily flake off...then a soak can do wonders. The best thing to help the snake be ready to shed as easily as possible is to have consistent proper humidity levels in the enclosure.

How are you controlling the temp of your UTH and what temp are you getting on the glass under the substrate on the warm side?

I am using aspen bedding... and have no legit way of controlling the uth... she stays under her log on the warm side where the uth pad is... so I assume it is fine... because when I originally moved her into her now cage she refused to be on the hot side and once i got some under tank ventilation she starteed going on it (aka it was too hot and she couldnt be over there)... hm... shoudl I not use aspen bedding? when I get enough money I am going to buy a thermal heat sensor thing... where its point and tells you the heat of the area.. but I am broke right now... literally... so.. I am just going by the humidity on the cage walls... and how damp the bedding looks... shoudl the cage be humid.. but not the bedding... like the ambient air humid but not the actual bedding?

and the pink is pretty consistent... but the orangeish spots which are darker than pink are inconsistent...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vypyrz

How are you controlling the temp of your UTH and what temp are you getting on the glass under the substrate on the warm side?

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and I have no thermometer on the underside of the tank or any way to tell how hot the pad is... or the glass... but when I touch the underside of the tank with my bare hand it feels hot to me.. maybe like hot bath water... not much hotter than that...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JLC

Ok...a few comments...

1. The pink/orange spots look like the early stages of scale rot, which is caused by overly moist and/or dirty substrate. At this early stage, changing to clean, dry paper should be enough, and the lesions will heal up and shed out.

2. In some pics, the pink belly looks like the start of the shedding process....but in others, it looks like it could be a burn. It could be that the different lighting simply made the belly appear differently in each picture, and only you can tell for sure in person. Is the entire belly an even light-to-medium shade of pink? If so, it's probably just the start of the shed cycle. If the pink is really dark, and/or if it is only located on portions of the belly, then it could be a burn.

If you can describe your set-up...what kind of substrate...what kind of heating element you have...what you use to measure temps...and what you use to control temps (if anything)...what your overall temps and humidity levels are....these sorts of details will help us help you.

Lastly...it's best to NOT soak a snake right before a shed. Doing so doesn't really help anything, and it might make it worse. AFTER a shed has gone bad and there are patches of dry skin that won't easily flake off...then a soak can do wonders. The best thing to help the snake be ready to shed as easily as possible is to have consistent proper humidity levels in the enclosure.

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what do you mean clean dry paper? like... paper towels??

An uncontrolled UTH can reach temps of 130, and with something loose like aspen you can get burrowing as the snake moves around under the log. A snake directly on top of an unregulated UTH can definitely get some serious burns.

I'd get a thermostat as soon a possible. She may be choosing the log for it's safety feeling rather than temp. They don't always know to avoid really hot things(hence the reason hot rocks are such a bad idea)

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Originally Posted by Trey Yeoman

and I have no thermometer on the underside of the tank or any way to tell how hot the pad is... or the glass... but when I touch the underside of the tank with my bare hand it feels hot to me.. maybe like hot bath water... not much hotter than that...

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Way too hot. Those pads can get REALLY hot when not regulated with a thermostat (or at least a rheostat/dimmer switch). And ball pythons are not capable of knowing if a surface is too hot to lay on.

I honestly can't say if that is a shed or burn or both, but I CAN say that you need to do something about that heating pad, even if you have to borrow money from Mom. Go to Lowes/Home Depot/Ace and get a lamp-dimmer...it's a little sliding switch on an extension cord that you can plug your heater cord into...then dial it down. To measure the temperature, you also need a thermometer...which can also be found at the hardware store or WalMart...a digital indoor/outdoor thermometer that also measures humidity. The dimmer switch is usually less than $10 and the thermometer is less than $15.

The aspen bedding should NOT look wet...at all. And all wastes should be cleaned up as soon as feasible. While the snake is in the healing process, I would take the aspen out and replace it with clean newspaper or paper towels. With those, it's very easy to see if the snake has left a mess. You can spritz the paper/bedding when misting the cage, but it should never, ever be soggy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JLC

Way too hot. Those pads can get REALLY hot when not regulated with a thermostat (or at least a rheostat/dimmer switch). And ball pythons are not capable of knowing if a surface is too hot to lay on.

I honestly can't say if that is a shed or burn or both, but I CAN say that you need to do something about that heating pad, even if you have to borrow money from Mom. Go to Lowes/Home Depot/Ace and get a lamp-dimmer...it's a little sliding switch on an extension cord that you can plug your heater cord into...then dial it down. To measure the temperature, you also need a thermometer...which can also be found at the hardware store or WalMart...a digital indoor/outdoor thermometer that also measures humidity. The dimmer switch is usually less than $10 and the thermometer is less than $15.

The aspen bedding should NOT look wet...at all. And all wastes should be cleaned up as soon as feasible. While the snake is in the healing process, I would take the aspen out and replace it with clean newspaper or paper towels. With those, it's very easy to see if the snake has left a mess. You can spritz the paper/bedding when misting the cage, but it should never, ever be soggy.

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wouldnt the paper towel/newpaper substrate provide very little seperation from the glass thus making it hotter?

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Originally Posted by Trey Yeoman

wouldnt the paper towel/newpaper substrate provide very little seperation from the glass thus making it hotter?

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That would depend on how many layers you put down over the heat. But no matter what you use, your snake can and will get underneath it and snuggle up against that heated glass. It really is imperative that you get control of it asap.

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Originally Posted by JLC

That would depend on how many layers you put down over the heat. But no matter what you use, your snake can and will get underneath it and snuggle up against that heated glass. It really is imperative that you get control of it asap.

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[dang!]
It's impossible to just ask my mom for money, because she doesn't have it... of course, neither does my father. And I pay for my own stuff... I guess I am going to have to ask to borrow money from someone... idk who but i will figure it out... I dont get paid till wednesday so... *sigh*

This is the one I use, works pretty well so far:

http://www.google.com/products/catal...d=0CBoQ8wIwAg#

Until you can buy a dimmer or thermostat to control your heat pad at least raise your tank up off of it so your snake doesn't get any more damage. Put something half an inch thick under each corner of the tank. This will allow your tank to be a little cooler for now.

Here is another inexpensive thermostat that a lot of people like:

http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-MTPR.../dp/B000NZZG3S

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Originally Posted by wax32

Until you can buy a dimmer or thermostat to control your heat pad at least raise your tank up off of it so your snake doesn't get any more damage. Put something half an inch thick under each corner of the tank. This will allow your tank to be a little cooler for now.

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That won't work if the pad is attached directly to the tank. But if he can separate the heater from the tank, putting space between it and the glass will help.

Ultimately, Trey, it is your responsibility and your decision about what you will do. All we can do is tell you what needs to be done and offer suggestions on how to do it in as economical way as possible. Any pet you take on requires money for upkeep and it would be a good idea to build up a savings account for emergencies and for upgrading critical supplies as you can.

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Originally Posted by JLC

That won't work if the pad is attached directly to the tank.

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Ah yeah, I forget that some people stick them on the tank. Sorry!

Another option is to unplug the heat mat altogether and go with an overhead lamp instead. Yes, it makes keeping the humidity up a lot more challenging, but it's still doable and safer for the animal than an unregulated heat mat. But again...it still costs money for a bulb and a dome...probably about the same as it would cost for a dimmer switch and decent thermometer.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wax32

Ah yeah, I forget that some people stick them on the tank. Sorry!

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The desk she is on is wood... so it has to be to the bottom of the aquarium :D

That definitely looks like a burn to me, ouch :(
The scales look wavy and damaged. That will also invite secondary infections like blister disease, as the bacteria enters through the wounds.

Aspen should stay DRY, never wet !

Please use paper towels for now and keep everything dry and clean. The heating issue needs to be taken care off, sadly, there just isn't any way around it. Our body temperature is 98 degrees. So if the hotspot actually feels hot to YOU, imagine how hot it really is...

A didital thermometer with a probe is only a few dollars and there are very low priced thermostats. They are simply a must. If the belly is already burned and the snake continues to burn it, it can turn into a real mess.

Sorry, but there are no shortcuts on this :( Perhaps you can scan the different reptile forums to see if someone is selling some used stuff cheap...

just chiming in here with a question. Whats wrong with wet aspen, wouldnt wet (not soaked) aspen help keep the humidity levels up? I mean, when you spray their tanks you have to spray something, you cant just spray the air, and most things in the tanks wont hold humidity....I have aspen in all my sakes tanks (snake aspen) and I've never had a problem with it being wet, but I could be wrong in letting it get wet........I'm just wondering why it is you say its bad? :confused:

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Originally Posted by RaeaTheGreat

just chiming in here with a question. Whats wrong with wet aspen, wouldnt wet (not soaked) aspen help keep the humidity levels up? I mean, when you spray their tanks you have to spray something, you cant just spray the air, and most things in the tanks wont hold humidity....I have aspen in all my sakes tanks (snake aspen) and I've never had a problem with it being wet, but I could be wrong in letting it get wet........I'm just wondering why it is you say its bad? :confused:

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As I mentioned earlier...spritzing it with water when you mist the enclosure is alright. But truly wet bedding...of any sort...will harbor/breed tons of bacteria and that bacteria can get under the snake's scales and cause infections. There are ways of keeping the humidity at the proper levels without restoring to wet bedding.

Someone might be able to get away with it for a time, but eventually, scale rot or other similar infection will rear its ugly head.

well like once every few weeks ill take everything out of the tanks (to get it out of the way) and spray the bedding, mix it, spray it, mix it, etc, just to get it a little more humid bc the dry bedding seems uncomfortable....should I stop doing that?

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Originally Posted by RaeaTheGreat

well like once every few weeks ill take everything out of the tanks (to get it out of the way) and spray the bedding, mix it, spray it, mix it, etc, just to get it a little more humid bc the dry bedding seems uncomfortable....should I stop doing that?

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Yes, I would stop doing that. What "seems uncomfortable" to you is a non-issue with the snakes. In fact, the bedding is only there to absorb waste...they don't really need cushioning or pillows or anything "comfy".

alright, thanks =) sorry for the thread steal o.o

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Originally Posted by RaeaTheGreat

alright, thanks =) sorry for the thread steal o.o

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Nooo problem. :)

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Originally Posted by RaeaTheGreat

alright, thanks =) sorry for the thread steal o.o

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HOW COULD YOU!!! BLASPHEMER!!!! :D:D

And I read an article about raising your ball python that said that when you clean out the cage you soak the bedding slightly and mix it in until its even then let it sit for a few minutes so it evens out... I don't see anything wrong with wetting the bedding when you are changing... cause it is going to dry...
but don't listen to me, listen to the veterans :D:D
to me, anatomically (at least), the moist bedding shouldnt be an issue if it is just at changing time and not a constant...

Updated:
I took Elizabeth to a snake breeder, he inspected her... checked her mouth/nostrils, cloiaca, and skin and said that in his opinion the snake is shedding and the orange tint are not burns but just a varyance in color and lack of pigment being shed... if showed me how her scales were already starting to shed off... by rubbing one and it just popped off... he also inspected my cage and said that it was fine, in his opinion, but that he would switch to newspaper and not aspen (due to its mold ability and getting caught under scales of snake)
I am going to keep an eye on her... to make sure its NOT scale rot or anything... and when I get paid this week I am going to buy a temp gun from tempgun.com, 30 bucks, seem good?
And I will use that to decide if I need a control for the heating pad and I will get a humidity digital display from walmart as well :D they are like.. 7.99 :D
Thank you to everyone for their input, and I will most definitely keep updates in case something goes wrong.

Truthfully, you won't need the tempgun, but they are nice.

Get yourself an Accurite Weather Station from Wal-Mart, they sell them next to the outdoor thermometers. You put the probe at the end of the wire against the glass on the hot side, put the unit itself on the cool side.

You can invest in a lamp dimmer to control the UTH for now, or invest in an inexpensive one from a pet store, mine was around $30 from Petco.

Gale

Yeah, a temp gun isn't needed. It's more of just a convenience item. I have a $200 infrared laser temp gun and all that expensive toy does is check my heat gradients :(

Although, if you really, really want one. Just get one.

Just remember your money's main priority is a temperature/humidity gauge, and a dimmer. Or what I used to start off with was a Repti-Therm UTH controller (with a analog dial) its only $20 and its a good starting point.

im going to go out on a limb here.. after reading the thread .i would def have to say that the most important thing to get asap is a thermostat . or reostat. these can be had pretty cheap. if money is a consern. a thermostat in imo the most important part to keeping the snake at proper temp. whats a temp gun gonna do for the health of the snake in question? pick up a news paper. and a hydro-farm thermostat 30$ ...
So tonight i was moving some snakes around ..getting ready for some new pick ups.. i have one shelf that isnt heated .SO i took the 41qt tub and slid it in ,,added a uth (zoo med) pad plugged it in. no thermostat .. @ 105 deg i unplugged it . so yeah they will get way too hot .id rather be alittle cool than to cook the snake..also it only took about 5mins to reach 105degs

An accurite is a good cheap purchase that will do the same thing basically as a temp gun. Spend the $30 on a thermostat because you will still need it even if you buy that temp gun to show you that you need it. If its hot on your hand its burning the snake.

Also if you put newspaper down as substrate there might be less between the snake and the UTH but if it is at a controlled temperature it doesn't matter it would be the same really.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...46#post1462746

a sort of thank you to everyone + update