2 headed ball python update :-)

5 months old and 5 sheds achieved. this little bugger is doing great!!!

http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x...kes/12nov2.jpg

Wow, that is incredible.

wow, so cool! congrats n the health of that special animal, quite a sight

I'd love to see a video of it eating.

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Originally Posted by Camarokidz28

I'd love to see a video of it eating.

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there are quite a few on youtube :-)

This is just soooooo awesome!

I wonder if we'll see more mutations like this as we manipulate the genotypes of these snakes.

Very cool!

How did you get this snake? Did you hatch it or buy it? Very interesting!

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Originally Posted by demjor19

How did you get this snake? Did you hatch it or buy it? Very interesting!

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I hatched it out from pied X 66% het pied breeding

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Originally Posted by Quality_Snakes

I hatched it out from pied X 66% het pied breeding

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Wow! That must have been a surprise! Glad to see it's doing well!

That is SO awesome. Im glad he is doing well. Thanks for sharing with us

Thanks for the update! Glad he is doing well!

And here's one of the videos that a previous member asked for...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCjBQMrrNXI

Do you plan to breed it? It's pretty awesome :sweeet:

That's awesome!

sent by a beastly droid x

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Originally Posted by eracer

I wonder if we'll see more mutations like this as we manipulate the genotypes of these snakes.

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This is not really a "mutation"--it's basically a pair of siamese twins that got joined in the egg. It might be possible to selectively breed to increase the chances of that happening... for example by breeding only animals that produce twin eggs... but it might be purely luck and/or incubator conditions.

(And we're not really manipulating the genotypes all that much. We're mostly just playing with recessive and dominant traits. All of which are existing, naturally-occurring mutations in the wild. Inbreeding is a risk with recessives in particular, but we're still not doing anything as extreme as what was done to toy poodles or Great Danes or bulldogs in the last two centuries.)

Does only the one head eat?

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This is not really a "mutation"--it's basically a pair of siamese twins that got joined in the egg. It might be possible to selectively breed to increase the chances of that happening... for example by breeding only animals that produce twin eggs... but it might be purely luck and/or incubator conditions.

(And we're not really manipulating the genotypes all that much. We're mostly just playing with recessive and dominant traits. All of which are existing, naturally-occurring mutations in the wild. Inbreeding is a risk with recessives in particular, but we're still not doing anything as extreme as what was done to toy poodles or Great Danes or bulldogs in the last two centuries.)

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Thank you for pointing this out. Manipulating the genotype would be actually splicing in genes into the genome of the organism. And this isn't easy. It takes the ability to cut out a gene sequence from one genome then transplant it into a vessel such as a virus that then splices the gene into the genome of the intended organism. Even when this is achieved that actual chances of the process being viable is slim to none.

But deffinetly great snake. Im glad its doing well. In my opinion, I dont think we should be selectively breeding for these mutations since there are such high mortality rates.

SO COOL! I love that he's still doing great. I hope he gets nice and big for you, keep us posted!.....well I hope THEY(?) get nice and big for you. haha. I wondered if they can think individually.

Awesome that he doing well. And cool pattern too! Lol

Adorable!

You should put up more Youtube videos, I've seen all the ones you have and I am just in love with that little guy. :D :D :D
Can't get enough of the videos.
Glad to hear he's doing good :gj:

well that is interesting I would love to know how they control the body movement, there are 2 brains and I know this is very hard to prove just by looking but to me it seemed like the non eating head on the video was the one that started moving the body forward, and then you see it quickly moves backwards like the other head getting a better position to finish eating it.

of course I am just guessing and I am not sure if to love this rare animal or feel sorry for him

how is his behavior just like any other of your snakes.. ?

anyways thanks for sharing.

Thanks for sharing this!

I've thought of this baby often, and wondered how it was doing. I am very glad you decided to give it a chance, it is quite remarkable how it has adapted and thrived.

Gale

That is freaking awesome! I'd love to hatch one of those!

That is a pretty cool snake but I would not want to hatch one as the snake is not meant to be that way. It is a great pet to check out though!

awesome

amazing....

Is one head more dominant than the other? Does one head do all the eating?

glad to here he/they are doing well!! Would love to see an xray of them and see just where they're conjoined!

wow! I honostly have never seen a 2 headed bp. Cornsnakes but never bp's. Which head does the eating? Lol. Thats really cool.:gj:

Very cool animal. Glad to see it's doing well. Thanks for sharing!

That's really interesting seeing that animal actually thrive and what looks like excellent condition. Keep us posted. Just wonder how long You can keep it up in good health and with any serious issues. It's obvious that in nature that animal will have lesser chance to survive.
Keep My Fingers crossed to see him growing and Thriving for many years !!!:gj::gj::gj:

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Originally Posted by redstormlax12

Thank you for pointing this out. Manipulating the genotype would be actually splicing in genes into the genome of the organism. And this isn't easy. It takes the ability to cut out a gene sequence from one genome then transplant it into a vessel such as a virus that then splices the gene into the genome of the intended organism. Even when this is achieved that actual chances of the process being viable is slim to none.

But deffinetly great snake. Im glad its doing well. In my opinion, I dont think we should be selectively breeding for these mutations since there are such high mortality rates.

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I (barely) remember my college genetics classes, but isn't it considered genotypic manipulation any time you selectively breed for phenotypic characteristics? I know that breeders aren't gene splicing, but I wonder whether the community as a whole tracks bloodlines sufficiently to prevent inbreeding, given that the desired phenotypic traits seem to have a common ideal. Breed for the perfect white, and all that.

Dog breeders have seen the effects of inbreeding on the general health of many breeds. Perhaps BP's are in danger of that same thing. I understand that a two-headed snake is probably not a result of breeding through generations for desired color patterns. But what dangers lurk in the form of weakened immune systems, and even subtle physical changes that we simply can't predict?

On the other hand, what happens in the wild? I suspect that there may be as much or more inbreeding going on among regional populations, especially considering the low survival rates among offspring.

Thanks for the discussion - I'm new to this stuff, and really just trying to learn.

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Originally Posted by eracer

I (barely) remember my college genetics classes, but isn't it considered genotypic manipulation any time you selectively breed for phenotypic characteristics? I know that breeders aren't gene splicing, but I wonder whether the community as a whole tracks bloodlines sufficiently to prevent inbreeding, given that the desired phenotypic traits seem to have a common ideal. Breed for the perfect white, and all that.

Dog breeders have seen the effects of inbreeding on the general health of many breeds. Perhaps BP's are in danger of that same thing. I understand that a two-headed snake is probably not a result of breeding through generations for desired color patterns. But what dangers lurk in the form of weakened immune systems, and even subtle physical changes that we simply can't predict?

On the other hand, what happens in the wild? I suspect that there may be as much or more inbreeding going on among regional populations, especially considering the low survival rates among offspring.

Thanks for the discussion - I'm new to this stuff, and really just trying to learn.

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I think selective breeding still counts as genotype manipulation, but it's at a lower level. And the sort of recessive/dominant thing we're doing is a much more straightforward thing, largely only affecting one minor, naturally-occurring gene... whereas with dogs, you're selecting for a whole slew of related traits. And then repeatedly selecting, over and over. So there are much more dramatic results on the gross anatomy and behavior of the dogs.

Whereas ball pythons morphs are still basically ball pythons, just with different paint jobs. It's pretty much a single-gene phenomenon. VERY TINY genotype manipulation.

But inbreeding, yeah, that's potentially an area of concern. Because it's much more financially lucrative to breed your recessives together... until you have a smaller and smaller gene pool... and then what happens is everyone in that tiny gene pool is carrying the same copies of a whole lot of genes, not just the one gene that controls the morph...

...and THEN when you breed members of that same gene pool together, the chances of the offspring getting two copies of EVERYTHING goes up, and not just for the morph gene. And some genes are harmful when you have two copies. So you run into the same kinds of health problems as you get with small human populations.

Basically, I think you're right to worry about it? But we're going to see it popping up in corn snakes and boas first, because we already have lots of triple and quadruple hets for recessive traits that are being inbred...

(But I DON'T think it will result in two-headed snakes, because those are just siamese twins. If you want more two-headed snakes, start selecting for twins and twin-egg producers.)

great to see them doing well :)

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Originally Posted by jbean7916

glad to here he/they are doing well!! Would love to see an xray of them and see just where they're conjoined!

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you've lost the previous thread about it. I posted an X-ray ;-)

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Originally Posted by darkolako

well that is interesting I would love to know how they control the body movement, there are 2 brains and I know this is very hard to prove just by looking but to me it seemed like the non eating head on the video was the one that started moving the body forward, and then you see it quickly moves backwards like the other head getting a better position to finish eating it.

of course I am just guessing and I am not sure if to love this rare animal or feel sorry for him

how is his behavior just like any other of your snakes.. ?

anyways thanks for sharing.

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as far as only one head (dodesn't matter which one) wants to control the body it moves fine. but when both wanna move then it's a bit weird

for the rest he behaves like a normal snake (looking for hot spots and hideing places, drinking, peeing, pooing etc...).

Is it still alive?? That would be amazing

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I usually ding people who resurrect old thread. But this one. This one was worth it. So I will give you a pass.

In still sorta new what is and how do you ding or do you mean pm?

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Wow this is beautiful!!


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Originally Posted by Ballpythonguy92

In still sorta new what is and how do you ding or do you mean pm?

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They mean they usually call people out/scold people for reviving old threads haha

How is this snake still doing ?


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Originally Posted by meganmarkita15

How is this snake still doing ?

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yes, i am curious as well. :)

so am i!

Lol ohh and I'm glad then and seems like alot of people want to know aswell I've been wanting to hatch a 2 headed or no eyed ball python just cause I want to see how they act compared to normal ones as I've heard no eyed ones do just fine like as if they had eyes buy 2 heads can be a bit hard due to them trying to eat the same prey item and pulling different ways

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