How to properly get temp readings...new snake owner

I just got my first snake last night, obviously a BP.

55 gallon thick glassed aqaurium
Snake is 3 ft long

The previous owner only used a UTH on one side and said it has worked great for over a year with just that.

The problem I find is I keep my apartment pretty cool...68-72F during the day and 60-68F at night.

Last night I did some temp testing and used a probe thermometer put half way between the substrate over the UTH and it got to a max of 72F throughout the night. After reading on here I will do another reading with the probe directly on the glass above the UTH to see how hot it is. But if I had to take a guess its still not going to be as hot as it needs to be. This aquarium glass is thick, thick glass.

I know where the temps should be and that the temps he was at is way too low so I'm going to fix that today, but I'm wondering about what part of the tank to test the temps at.

Obviously I want to test the glass temp on the cool side and the glass temp on the warm side, how about the top substrate temp on both side? How about a thermometer in the middle of the tank near the top to get an idea of the general ambient temp? If I use a ceramic light I assume I need a temp reading on top of the substrate directly under the lamp?

what i have now is 2 UTHs each hooked up to a thermostat to make a heat gradient mines 82-92 atm and it keeps ambient at like 81 ish and i have a glass also.. dont use a light unless you want to mist every 2 hours :mad: sooo time consuming lol..

and btw its easier to keep substrate temps good with repticarpet.. not as much insulation for the heat to travel through

and by the time you have washed it like twice its payed for itself compared to natural substrates

edit: this is were i learned http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ass-tank-setup at the bottom it shows were to put your probe

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kyleax1

Last night I did some temp testing and used a probe thermometer put half way between the substrate over the UTH and it got to a max of 72F throughout the night. After reading on here I will do another reading with the probe directly on the glass above the UTH to see how hot it is. But if I had to take a guess its still not going to be as hot as it needs to be. This aquarium glass is thick, thick glass.

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I want to say this is impossible. For the fact that a non regulated UTH can get above 130 degrees. I don't care how thick the glass is, it is hot enough.
I am guessing your method of measuring temps is wrong. Temps need to be measures at the ground level under substrate. BP's will burrow and if you measure temps other than the very bottom the snake could burn him/herself.
On a side note with such a low night temp you are going to have to insulate the tankglass with corkboard. I would also suggest wrapping the tank in flexwatt (3 sides) and set the tape at 80 degrees then use a UTH to heat the hot side to the 92. That should help keep temps normal 24/7.

I think I figured out that the probe is not giving a reading, so the only temp im getting is ambient from the remote location. So I will have to go get a new one later and see what temps I end up with.

I'd suggest investing in a temperature gun, they aren't terribly expensive and give you instant accurate readings. Really useful tool, I end up using mine with all my herps

The talk about temp guns vs probes is still one that causes confusion for me and from the sounds of it the OP as well.

Temp guns measure the surface temp of the substrate. Probes measure the temperature of the glass/under the substate. I realize some substrates can easily be moved, but for example I know my snake doesn't try to get under the reptibark. She lays on top of it and compresses it sometimes, but there's always at least 1/4"-1/2" of substrate even at the shallowest points, so does the glass temp really matter?

It seems like the surface temperature is much more important than the glass temperature, especially with something that doesn't lend itself well to burrowing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jeo123

The talk about temp guns vs probes is still one that causes confusion for me and from the sounds of it the OP as well.

Temp guns measure the surface temp of the substrate. Probes measure the temperature of the glass/under the substate. I realize some substrates can easily be moved, but for example I know my snake doesn't try to get under the reptibark. She lays on top of it and compresses it sometimes, but there's always at least 1/4"-1/2" of substrate even at the shallowest points, so does the glass temp really matter?

It seems like the surface temperature is much more important than the glass temperature, especially with something that doesn't lend itself well to burrowing.

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You measure the glass temp because they are prone to burrowing. Your snake is choosing not to. Just like the snake chooses what side it wants to chill on (hot or cold). If your snake gets too cold it will burrow.

So I'm guessing Repticarpet and atro turf are the same?
I also assume that is used without any other substrate on top of it.
How does that hold humidity? I assume not that great.

Nevermind to the above, I found the answer from the link that was posted.

I'm sure someone has suggested this, but temp gun all the way. That will be accurate instantaneously, and so there is no waiting around for a digi thermometer to stabilize.

My suggestions would be to ditch a turf or carpet substrate if thats what you have and use something the snake can burrow into for extra warmth. Obviously, glass temp is important regardless, because you never know when you're snake may burrow. You can always try thinning the substrate on the warm side(as many UTH manufacturer's suggest). Try paper towels, eco earth, shredded newspaper. And also, have a nice hide on the cool side.Just incase something gets a little too hot in the process, you're ball won't feel so insecure and let itself get burned.

If you have already covered any of this stuff, disregard it and pat yourself on the back.

Also, since you're using an aquarium, you may want to have an extra small crock of water on the warm side to help keep humidity up in the cage.

My final suggestion-Switch to a tub, makes life so much easier in my opinion, for you and the snake(though some may disagree with the snake having it easier...)
my

Edit: My tub is set up with a probe directly above the bottom of the tub but under the substrate on the hot side. That's how I get hotside readings. My coolside is measured by the the same thermoemter at the other end of the enclosure, fastened to the side. Also, thios gives me my humidity reading. I get constant, steady readings of 93 on the hot sides and around 80 on the cooler sides. Even when temp falls at night, the UTH seems enough to sustain temperatures as I've never seen the coolside fall below 77 even if the house is somewhere around 72. And 77 is pretty rare. Usually sits right on 80. I really just dont suggest a lamp of heat emitter for your tank, it will throw your humidity right out of whack. I hope all this randomized bits of info are helpful to you in someway.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bsavage

I'm sure someone has suggested this, but temp gun all the way. That will be accurate instantaneously, and so there is no waiting around for a digi thermometer to stabilize.

My suggestions would be to ditch a turf or carpet substrate if thats what you have and use something the snake can burrow into for extra warmth. Obviously, glass temp is important regardless, because you never know when you're snake may burrow. You can always try thinning the substrate on the warm side(as many UTH manufacturer's suggest). Try paper towels, eco earth, shredded newspaper. And also, have a nice hide on the cool side.Just incase something gets a little too hot in the process, you're ball won't feel so insecure and let itself get burned.

If you have already covered any of this stuff, disregard it and pat yourself on the back.

Also, since you're using an aquarium, you may want to have an extra small crock of water on the warm side to help keep humidity up in the cage.

My final suggestion-Switch to a tub, makes life so much easier in my opinion, for you and the snake(though some may disagree with the snake having it easier...)
my

Edit: My tub is set up with a probe directly above the bottom of the tub but under the substrate on the hot side. That's how I get hotside readings. My coolside is measured by the the same thermoemter at the other end of the enclosure, fastened to the side. Also, thios gives me my humidity reading. I get constant, steady readings of 93 on the hot sides and around 80 on the cooler sides. Even when temp falls at night, the UTH seems enough to sustain temperatures as I've never seen the coolside fall below 77 even if the house is somewhere around 72. And 77 is pretty rare. Usually sits right on 80. I really just dont suggest a lamp of heat emitter for your tank, it will throw your humidity right out of whack. I hope all this randomized bits of info are helpful to you in someway.

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You pretty much took every single word out of my mouth, perfect!

Just get all the temps and humidity consistent, then you wont have to worry about anything with your snake's tank.

Just remember, if the glass is hot to the touch, it'll burn the snake. IF the substrate is hot to the touch, doubly so! Snakes need a basking temperature around what out bodies run at, so the top of the substrate should be feintly warm, with the glass only a little bit warmer. And I mean WARM, like a mother's caress, not warm like a hot bath. ;)

So this guide http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?56846-Glass-tank-setup is overkill?

I think in general you're going to get advice based on two different groups on this site and anywhere you look.

Some people will say buy hundreds if not thousands of dollars worth of equipment to provide the most accurate way to check, control, monitor, and maintain the absolute perfect environment imaginable.

Others will basically say does it matter if instead of being accurate to 2 decimals your accurate to within 2 degrees? As long as the temps are ball park and your snake is alive and acting healthy, it's fine.

That guide is for people in the first group, and personally seems like overkill.

I am also a new snake owner and im in the complete exact position as you, my house is getting really cold due to winter coming around so keeping the temps up in my glass tank without bringing the humidity down has been VERY hard so im switching to tubs with UTH's and I suggest that you do this too because its much cheeper keeps humidity/heat in better and much more simple to clean.

If I have 1 inch of substrate should I put the probe about a 1/2 inch below the substrate and aim to get the temp at 80 cool/90 hot?

I just don't want to set the temps by that and then he burn himself if he burrows to the glass.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kyleax1

If I have 1 inch of substrate should I put the probe about a 1/2 inch below the substrate and aim to get the temp at 80 cool/90 hot?

I just don't want to set the temps by that and then he burn himself if he burrows to the glass.

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Generally, don't even worry about the cool side. Under the substrate, and I mean completely under it, is where I have my probe. I try to keep the temps at 93 there, as I know that'll mean its around 90 on top of the substrate. Don't worry about setting the probe in between, have it under all the substrate so you know exactly how hot that plastic/glass is getting.

If you achieve the temps I have stated(93 under the substrate), the cool side should generally take care of itself, so long as you don't have the enclosure in a ridiculously cold room(under 65?). Mr reptile room is about 70-75 degrees at any given time, however, the coolsides seem to clock in around 80 consistently in the enclosures, and like I said, hot side temps read 93 on average, and everyone is happy, healthy, and calm(unless there is food)

He will not burn himself on glass that is 93 degrees, but, just in case, do what I said in one of my first replies to you, and give him access to a hide on the cool side. That way, if god forbid, he burrows and the glass ever gets to hot, he wont sacrifice security for proper thermo regulation, and will go and hang out in the cool side hide where he can lower hios temperature without feeling vunerable out in the open. Believe me, a timid snake would rather get burned than expose itself to its surroundings.