Question about recessive hairless genetics

So my two hairless boys still have fuzz/kinked guard hairs (I can see their skin through the thin coat) even though they are med. size. Will they ever lose all their fur?

They were from a het. to het. breeding

Hairless can be almost bald, completely bald...mostly bald...just fuzzy. Its impossible to tell until they get to adulthood.

exactly. my hairless rat is completely bald. ive got 2 hairless mice, one is completely bald, the other is like fluffy but has like idk half as much hair as usual if not less

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bad-one

So my two hairless boys still have fuzz/kinked guard hairs (I can see their skin through the thin coat) even though they are med. size. Will they ever lose all their fur?

They were from a het. to het. breeding

---

Are they true recessive hairless or just double rex or double Velveteens?

got pics?

Because you said that the hair that it does have is kinky/wavy that sounds more like it's got some rex in it.

Definitely recessive, you can see the parents on this thread:
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...d-the-parents-)

Never had a rex/velveteen before!
I can get fresh pics of the boys later.

I was hoping they'd be completely bald, I hate waiting lol

Any current pics of the babies? :)

How old are they? Sounds like double rex to me. :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rhasputin

How old are they? Sounds like double rex to me. :P

---

Since rex is a co-dom trait and the parents both have straight fur, they can't throw double or even single rex.

Rex isn't co-dominant. :P
It's dominant.

They would be double rex if both parents were rex. It's possible to be rex, and have no curl. :)

If the parents aren't rex, then the babies are certainly just ugly hairless critters. Lol!

Edit:
(Sorry didn't see the pics of the parents! The babies are almost certainly hairless. Or some variant of hairless. :) )

Here's pics I took earlier when cleaning cages :)
The albino (mr. jingles) definitely has his dads possum face!

http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...100_2790-1.jpg
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...s/100_2783.jpg
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...s/100_2788.jpg
http://i240.photobucket.com/albums/f...s/100_2778.jpg

I can't find my rat breeding records atm, but they are over 2 months old, probably around 3

rex X rex =

25% super form(double rex)
50% rex
25% normal coat

Rex X normal = 50% rex 50% normal coat

It is too a co-dom trait :rolleye2:

Double rex is like a super pastel, breed it to a normal coat and you make all rex's

Lmao. No. Rex is dominant. :P
It's not co-dom. What's it co-dom with?

If it is co-dom, hypothetically, then what would the ratio be if it WAS dominant? :P

Check out the AFRMA page on rex rats. Here's a quote for you, "Breeding Rex Rats
The Rex characteristic in rats is somewhat unusual in that it is dominant (I will put a qualifier on this and say that the Rex rats we commonly have in the fancy are dominant Rex).

This means that if you breed a Rex rat to any standard coated rat, half the babies in the litter will be Rex (if the genetics dice roll as they should). This makes it easy to produce more Rex babies. Keep in mind that standard coated rats produced out of Rex breedings do not carry Rex. Because Rex is a dominant gene, if it is there, you can see it!"

I'm confused, I've made almost 200 liters and I know the odds, as far as I know it's no different than breeding snakes when it comes to recessive, co-dom and Dom traits.

I'm no genetics wizard, but when a trait makes a homozygous form how can it be considered a dominate trait? :confused:

From AFRMA:
When breeding Rex, it is not advised that two Rex rats be bred together. When a baby rat gets Rex from both its mother and father, its coat leaves a lot to be desired. Typically these “homozygous” Rex rats range from nearly hairless to haired with a very thin patchy coat. These rats, though often very sweet, can best be described as mangy looking. They are certainly not particularly attractive.

In the same paragraph they say it's a Dom trait and then say it has a homozygous form, what's up with that?

When you breed a rex to a normal its a roll of the dice. You will get some rex babies. Sometimes I get two rex babies, sometimes more, sometimes half the litter is rex. Its co-dominant meaning that some of the babies will be rex and some will be normal.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tomfromtheshade

When you breed a rex to a normal its a roll of the dice. You will get some rex babies. Sometimes I get two rex babies, sometimes more, sometimes half the litter is rex. Its co-dominant meaning that some of the babies will be rex and some will be normal.

---

Exactly, I get pretty much 50% rex or velveteen when I breed them to normals.
I also get 100% rex or velveteen out of a double rex x normal breeding.
I don't get how they can call it a Dominate trait when it seemingly makes a super(Homozygous) form.
Or? :confused:

Here, maybe this is where the misunderstanding between you, in the reptile buis, and me in the mouse buis, happens. :P

Quoted from Pythons.com
"Codominant - A mis-used term in the reptile world. The more correct term is incomplete dominant. It is when the heterozygous animal has a different, intermediate phenotype compared to the homozygous dominant or homozygous recessive individuals. A classic example of this is the Lesser Platinum mutation, where the heterozygous individual (Pp) is a Lesser Platinum, but the homozygous phenotype (PP) is Leucistic."

More close to how I understand it. Quoted from NationMaster Encyclopedia
"Codominance - a relationship among alleles where both alleles contribute to the phenotype of the heterozygote"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rhasputin

Here, maybe this is where the misunderstanding between you, in the reptile buis, and me in the mouse buis, happens. :P

Quoted from Pythons.com
"Codominant - A mis-used term in the reptile world. The more correct term is incomplete dominant. It is when the heterozygous animal has a different, intermediate phenotype compared to the homozygous dominant or homozygous recessive individuals. A classic example of this is the Lesser Platinum mutation, where the heterozygous individual (Pp) is a Lesser Platinum, but the homozygous phenotype (PP) is Leucistic."

More close to how I understand it. Quoted from NationMaster Encyclopedia
"Codominance - a relationship among alleles where both alleles contribute to the phenotype of the heterozygote"

---

What most Ball Python breeders know about Genetics is wrong. Well not totaly wrong, its close and easy to understand but its not 100% accurate.

The thing that annoys me the most about hairless is the constant little dings, nicks, and scratches that they get. I feel like I should be putting neosporin on them daily LOL. Imagine how many little cuts you would get if you walked around naked all the time. With no hair they get scratched so easily.

My only experience with recessive hairless was nasty.

I had a friend call me and ask If I wanted some adult breeding nakeds and I had wanted some at that point so I said sure, bring me a 1.2 group :)

He went and picked up a group of 30 adults in another state and when he returned he brought me 3 he randomly picked out of the group of 30.
All 3 had large nasty tumors, the male was bleeding out of one on his skull cap, GROSS.
I froze them and gave them away to someone with larger snakes than I had.
I don't think he was able to breed any of them after all the troubles.

I'll take a double rex/velveteen any day :)

Hmmm. Well the hairless are a very sub-par breed. They should not be bred together. The females also tend to either not lactate or just don't have the mother instinct to take care of their young. When breeding hairless most people breed a hairless male to a het hairless female. We have been starting up some black dumbo hairless and some blue dumbo hairless.

Issues with hairless is the exact reason I only held back a couple males. I've never had rodent get cancer but I'm sure it is only a matter of time.

And hairless do have issues with scratches, I had the two males with their father who is full grown... they didn't really fight but the normal wrestling sessions left tons of scratches all over their skin which is why they don't live with him.

Hairless have a lot of issues. Mine are pets and with long term car you have to clean out their eyes every so often. They get nasty build up in their eyelids because they have no eyelashes to protect their eyes from stuff.

They can also have dry skin issues, which can be easily solved with some cream (if it gets to a point where the skin is flaking or peeling) and a high protein diet.

They also have a very different way of walking. Since they have no, or extremely curled whiskers, you'll notice that they sniff a lot more, and they tend to walk with their hands out-stretched to feel their way around better.

And yes, in nearly all cases of hairless that the public owns, you cannot successfully breed hairlessXhairless.