BP Registry?

Ok, so this is probably a silly idea, but does it bother anyone else that it's so tough to find out where a snake originally came from, or what its grandparents were, or what its offspring look like? If you get a snake directly from a breeder, it simplifies it some, but what about snakes that have been sold more than a few times?

I was thinking I really wish there was a BP registry like there are dog registries, where I could look up the "pedigree" of a snake. I would love something with pictures like on Albey's website, where you could see what a snake's parents looked like, and if it's had any offspring, what they look like. I know that BP genetics are simpler than dog genetics, but it seems difficult to undertake really directed selective breeding if you don't know what's hiding in the unexpressed genes. This would also help you know what possible recessives might be hiding and help you decide what pairings to make.

Besides, having registration IDs on each snake that you could look up online would really help put a boot to scammers.

What do you ya'll think?

i know what you mean i think that would make people step there game up and stop saleing animals they clam are one thing when they deff arent ......funny me and a breeder here in my area (kellys balls ) were gonna try and do that next year for all of are babies ...but the only thing it seems sorda time consuming lol:(

I thought of this at one point too and think it can be an idea worth some thought. Ive also seen this idea brought up by someone in a thread a while back that I remember stirring a big debate.

As someone new to BPs, how much lineage information is it normal to get when you buy a BP? None? Just the parents?

(I'm used to chondros, and while there isn't a chondro registry, most of my animals came with lineage information going back generations.)

iHerp has a lineage database that you can add your animals to. I do not know how good it is. I've added my snakes but have just started breeding, so I do not have any offspring to add to it yet.

It's a great idea but very hard to implement. We'd need an independent organization like AKC to run the database so that there is no cheating the system.

nice ideal but I think one problem is like right now got so many new breeders and such that they could not afford the fee or they might not have much of a history on a snake. I know were my hets ( 100% ones) but like iwht my mojave I can't prove she is actually possible het until she grows up. I looked at so many snakes and faces that day I prolly could not pic kthe guy out.

Another possible proglem is how fast/often a snake is flipped at shows.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mechnut450

Another possible proglem is how fast/often a snake is flipped at shows.

---

At present, I think that's the biggest obstacle to knowing one's animals' lineage, but it could be overcome with a good registry, or even just accurate record-keeping. Horses, like snakes, tend to change hands several times in their (similarly long) lives, but their registry and pedigree papers typically accompany them.

Admittedly, it does cost money to transfer registration of a horse, dog, cat, etc., within their respective registries, and that may be an insurmountable obstacle for new breeders or breeders of inexpensive morphs (would it really be worth a $25 fee to register a $75 male pastel?). However, I've also purchased a few "second-hand" chinchillas that came with their pedigree papers -- free to make, printed or hand-written by the original breeder, but still a nice way to track lineage and genetic background.

I would love to see either iHerp's lineage database become more widely used, or even just pedigree cards that could accompany the snake throughout its travels through the herp world :rolleyes: Since many snakes' lineage is currently unknown, at present, the card might have nothing more than the parents that produced it, but as it became a more common practice the pedigrees could get deeper and more extensive.

I'm intersted in what you think a far price or fee would be? I think a non-profit org like the AKC is a great model. This could really be a useful tool for all breeders big and small. The knowledge base alone would be priceless. If an org were to be formed with the support of the big breeding houses like VPI and N.E.R.D (to name a very few of the pioneers this trade owes so much to) for example the momentum would carry it foward pretty quickly. I wouldn't want to see the smaller breeders priced out though so what do you think? What would a fair pricepoint be? Maybe a yearly membership with a number of registations included for free so that the smaller producers could participate as well?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tesseract

I'm intersted in what you think a far price or fee would be? I think a non-profit org like the AKC is a great model. This could really be a useful tool for all breeders big and small. The knowledge base alone would be priceless. If an org were to be formed with the support of the big breeding houses like VPI and N.E.R.D (to name a very few of the pioneers this trade owes so much to) for example the momentum would carry it foward pretty quickly. I wouldn't want to see the smaller breeders priced out though so what do you think? What would a fair pricepoint be? Maybe a yearly membership with a number of registations included for free so that the smaller producers could participate as well?

---

I think that last sentence is a GREAT idea. Something cheap like $25 could come with a few registrations per year, say maybe 20 animals or something -- plus the huge benefit of a breeder saying "Proud member of the North American Ball Python Breeders' Association," or something like that. (Let's see, NABPBA, kind of has too many letters, doesn't it?) Then maybe silver, gold and platinum memberships with various other benefits ... (What would they be, though?)

The initial litter registration could come with one free transfer, then subsequent transfers could be, I dunno, maybe $15? I think my dog's was $25, horse was $15 but I had to join AQHA which was another $20 :rolleyes: and I totally forgot how much my cat's ped. transfer cost ...

I think the bigger problem is, an organization like that would take someone a lot of time and effort to run. Registrations need to be processed, certificates issued, etc., and the databases would need to be maintained regularly ... I feel like it might be hard to get off the ground ..? :confused:

I think it's a good idea for the future, though for now I'd love to see even just the "notecard pedigree" become more commonplace ... Fun to brainstorm about, though!


(PS: off-topic! Am I remembering correctly that "Tessaract" from the "Wrinkle in Time" Series?)

I like the idea of being able to register a certain number of snakes for a low fee, because I certainly don't want to price out small breeders (I might be one by this time next year! ;)) I keep thinking of all the added benefits; the AKC gives the dog world a point of clear leadership in the eyes of the legislature, and they've been successful lobbying against a lot of the animal rights legislation being pushed by the fringe elements. I know we have USARK, but a registry would give us a much better idea of how many people are actually breeding and how powerful our voting bloc really is.

As far as starting up, I think it'd be tough but worth it in the end. Just like with dog registries, we'd have start from somewhere, even if it just means registering what you have with no idea where it really came from, then building its pedigree from there. With new snakes coming out of Africa still, I don't know when we'd be able to "close the stud books" or even if we'd want to.

Although we're going to have to have a better ID system. I'm not naming my snake "Murphy's Secret Fire of Dublinshire" or some crap like that. :P

I love the idea of different membership levels. I'm a software geek in real life. I'm particularly interested in this topic because I think it's a logistical possibility if a number people joined me in putting this together. I am thinking of making a list of the movers and shakers out there to see if any of them would be interested in such a thing and if so what would they want out of it. It would take a while to get it off the ground if it's even possible but I would love to hear what everyone thinks about this and it would be helpful to know how much or how little interest there is in something like this. I don't know enough about the potential demand right now so it's just a concept at the moment. (thank you Miss Mowgli for starting the conversation going :) )

PS Yes a tesseract was used in "Wrinkle in Time". Good catch. It is a 3D representation of a 4D cube. Kind of an esoteric math concept. I'm a bit of a Math geek too so that's why I go by tesseract. :rolleye2:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MissMowgli

a registry would give us a much better idea of how many people are actually breeding and how powerful our voting bloc really is.

---

You know you make a great point. I strong organization like the AKC for example gives a voice to a lot of people. It would be so much more than just a database of names and pictures. It could be a place to gather information and discuss best practices as well. a place to send all of the new owners for reliable information. It could be a place to gather the consensus of the most respected experts on a host of topics. I think that's what I like about the concept the most. The possibilities are open right now as to what we as snake owners and breeders really want from a registry. And things we don't like "Murphy's Secret Fire of Dublinshire" for example. :colbert:

Check out American Cornsnake Registry. They are in the work of getting a bp registry going and leo geckos! Along with a few other registries in the future.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MissMowgli

Although we're going to have to have a better ID system. I'm not naming my snake "Murphy's Secret Fire of Dublinshire" or some crap like that. :P

---

Aww, you mean you don't like giving your animals ridiculous names? :P

ACR sounds like maybe kinda sorta a springboard, although I have to admit this is the first time I've ever heard of it. (That said, I am not at all into cornsnakes, or any colubrids for that matter.) One thing to think of, though, is that if that was started by "corn snake people" who are kind of just trying to start a BP one because BPs are popular, maybe they aren't the best folks to spearhead a ball registry. I mean, really, the whole point of breed clubs and registries is that it's not only a way to track lineage, but as y'all have already said, it's a place for serious enthusiasts to give advice, share ideas, mentor newcomers, etc., etc..

Kinda like forums like this one! :gj:

The ACR is just that, a registry. All my corns are registered. As far as hanging out and gaining info, that's what places like this and cornsnakes.com are for. :D